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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • mtnman1mtnman1 Westerville, OhioPosts: 371
    I was just over at my local Kia Dealership getting a recall taken care of on my 2011 Sorento. They had a loaded Optima EX on the showroom floor. Had everything: Heated and Cooled front seats, Heated rear seats, Heated Steering Wheel, Nav, Panaromic roof, Etc. Was Pearl white with the beige interior. Fantastic car for a Msrp of $27,500 I think it was. I would have loved to taken a test drive, but I knew it would be a bad idea. I have a 2009 Ford Fusion SEL V6 that is loaded with only 28,000 miles on it, so it will be awhile before I'm in the market again. Probably another 4 years after my youngest graduates from college. With tuition and room and board at the school he wants to go to it's about $47,000/yr. Even with the scholorship money it's going to be expensive. Too bad. This car is going to be hot for Kia. Of course, by not driving it I can't really judge whether I would actually buy it.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,707
    I have a Fusion Sport now, and hands down it is a far better car than the Camry. With the Toyotas, after a year of driving them I was eager to get rid of them, I don't feel that way about the Fusion, and that is saying a lot.
    ***

    Vanilla with sprinkles is better than vanilla. ;) Ford is making a lot of good vehicles lately, and the year end discounts are quite attractive. Toyota simply never offers them, of maybe it's a once in a blue moon $500 incentive.
  • Toyota simply never offers them, of maybe it's a once in a blue moon $500 incentive.

    That used to be the case, but not anymore. Ever since the bottom fell out of Toyota's "quality" reputation (via their recalls and their admitted deception to the government and customers), I've seen a lot more rebates/incentives offered for the Camry for '11 than ever before. In fact, Toyota in general has had a lot of TV time lately, promoting rebates and incentives that were unheard of only 2 years ago.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    $1500 on the hood of every '11 Camry here in western PA right now. I think it was about $1k more around the holidays for the '10 models.
  • ...6 months driving my 2010 Mazda6 iSport. Still loving it. Never once felt it was underpowered. Still get a thrill any time I use the steering wheel at speeds above 40, due to the fluid response. Continually impressed by the smooth, solid braking.

    If it isn't the perfect family sports sedan, at least it is the perfect family sports sedan for me.
  • I recently bought for one of my daughters a fully-loaded (everything but nav) 2011 Fusion Sport for just under $25,000 (cash price). This car is more fun to drive than my other daughter's Audi A4 and has more technology than my A6. It is a lot of car for the $$. Ford has a winner.
  • azorglubazorglub Posts: 43
    in the US, it'd be great. I had a 2004 Mazda6 hatchback, and it's so much more practical than the sedan. They still produce the H/B for other markets. I wish they'd sell it here.
  • ctlctl Posts: 123
    edited March 2011
    A copy of older Mazda6 is better than A4 and A6? says much about Audi or the last gen Mazda6 maybe? :)
  • How are the reliabilty on the new Mazda 6's? I'm looking @ the 2010 2011 models
  • Initial fit/finish was flawless on my 2010 Mazda6.

    Zero problems of any kind in my first 6 months of ownership.

    But I think The Truth About Cars has a reliability check webpage, along with real gas mileage results.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    The April C/D has an interesting article that details the US/Canadian content of all vehicles made in North America. It says that for a vehicle to be considered "domestic" by Uncle Sam, it needs to have at least 75% US/Canadian content. By that measure, there's only 4 "domestic" mid-sized family cars available today: Accord, Camry, Malibu, and 200. Accord and Camry have the highest percentage, 80%. Only a few vehicles, and only one car, have more US/Canadian content than that: Explorer/Mountaineer (85%, but 2010 Explorer had 90%), Dakota (84%), 2011 Focus (84%), and Grand Caravan (82%).

    Lowest US/Canadian content of the mid-sized family sedans built in NA: Fusion, with 20%.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,707
    This is obviously not the same as "U.S. Made", either, since Shipping jobs and money to Canada is really no better for our economy that giving the money to China. Once it's across the borders, it's a job that's lost.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    edited March 2011
    Based on the figures in C/D, there is no "U.S. Made" vehicle today, if your criterion for that is all parts and manufacturing from the U.S.

    Anyway, your comment is somewhat off-topic, as there are no mid-sized family cars made/assembled in Canada.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    So my Flex is Domestic but my Fusion isn't, that's crazy. It doesn't matter, the end result is the dollars that go to the company end up in the US, where the toyota and honda dollars end up in Japan.

    Now if it weren't for the Unions with their overly high priced workers, more domestics would be built here in the US, and not in other countries where labor is cheaper. I read somewhere the average worker in the UAW costs the auto manufacturer something like $80 an hour after all the wages and healthcare and retirement plan are added up. An average work day of an 8 hour shift with say 250 workers adds up to $160,000 a day, pretty damned expensive.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    So there is no profit for anybody in the manufacturing process of a car but the car company itself? Very simplistic view. Wages would be considered a profit to the worker. Most of the material and parts that go into cars are not made by the car company so there is profit on each and every pound of steel and plastic part etc that goes into it. If the wages and 80% of the material to build the car are not US, then yes, I would say that most of the profit doesn't come or stay here either.

    They say that for every car manufacturing job in the US there are 4 other jobs supporting it from parts to lunches(and beer and pot in Chrysler's case...wink, wink). All those profits and jobs disappear when the jobs are moved offshore. Like the Fusion built in Mexico. Who supplies all those workers with health care, food, housing, etc. etc etc.? Not Americans.

    As far as the unions go, the car manufacturers agreed to all those wages and benefits at a time when they were raking in the money because there was no real competition. They agreed to avoid strikes and a blip in their tremendous cash/profit flow. It came back to haunt them and us, the US taxpayer. There is enough blame for everyone to take their fair share.

    I personally don't care for most modern day unions either but at one time they were necessary. The greedy took them over just like the management in the early auto companies did and here we are.
  • altima1altima1 Posts: 4
    I saw the 2012 Passat at the Toronto Auto Show last week. Wow, what a disappointment! It looks like the old version of the Hyundai Sonata - with a cheap interior, poor seats, no rear heat ducts, made in Mexico and an outdated, underpowered and uncompetitive base engine (170 hp). How is this supposed to compete with an Optima, Accord or Altima? As a Passat owner, what will this mean for my resale value as the whole brand has been dragged downmarket with the new Jetta and now the new Passat. I know VW wants to dominate with sales ... but selling cheap cars over innovative design is not the way to do it! Are VW and Hyundai destined to trade places?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,701
    So my Flex is Domestic but my Fusion isn't, that's crazy. It doesn't matter, the end result is the dollars that go to the company end up in the US, where the toyota and honda dollars end up in Japan.

    This is such an old and trite argument, and is mostly incorrect.

    The dollars spent on a vehicle go something roughly like this:

    Dealer profit - 5%
    Cost of manufacturing - 70% (includes workers, plant, suppliers (whether domestic or foreign), utilities, local plant services such as food, etc.
    Transportation, advertising - 15%
    Profit to parent company - 0-10% (if company is profitable at all)

    So if a car is assembled in the US, most of the manufacturing costs are spent here. The parts which are domestic are bought here. Only the foreign-sourced parts have money going somewhere else, and even that might not be to the parent company's country in many cases.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Actually, your Flex isn't "domestic" either--only 65% US/Canadian content.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    I would rather the union members get the money,than the stock owners and executives of the American brands.BTW those assembling Hondas,Toyotas and other Asian brands in the US are not in unions.
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    I drove a mid trim 2011 2.5 Jetta yesterday. The seats were fine. Good in fact. It had a manual height adjuster that didn't try to tip you out of it the higher you went, as so many others do. The doors have 3 distinct and well weighted opening and closing detents. Closing the door is vault-like from outside or inside the car.

    There were the usual VW idiosyncratic switch gear oddities inside (cruise control and intermittent wipers for example) but generally most had good feel. EXCEPT for the mirror controls in both electric and manual trim levels. They felt vague, rubbery and when turning to get mirror heat, they made you feel like you are on the road to break something. They reminded me of the mirror switches from their models from almost 20 years ago. There were also a couple other things that reminded me of some stubbornness that VW has been known to carry on with even though those same design flaws can be found broken in used car lots.

    The heater controls were excellent in that they were mechanical and you could adjust any number of preferences and still get lots of air on the windshield without triggering the A/C compressor by the defrost mode. Vents were well positioned, had good air flow all were on/off adjustable.

    Steering, ride and handling were well weighted with good feel and directness, compliant yet very confidence inspiring, and extremely quiet and well composed. It is here where you reap the rewards of compromises made elsewhere. In order to hear any wind noise I had to go 75 plus and there was just a hint of air rushing around the mid windshield area near the roofline. Road noise was practically non-existent. Heard no pebbles hitting wheel wells which stood out right away in the Subaru Legacy I had driven a few days ago.

    Saved the best for last. I'm sure the TDI would impress equally but I drove the gas yesterday. This 2.5 litre 5 cylinder engine was nothing less than spectacular, in smoothness, responsiveness, torque, ability to rev and noise under cruise was barely audible, yet when revved with aggression had a wonderfully intoxicating growl, that, combined with pinning you in your seat created a smile that didn't go away for minutes. I will be driving the 2.0 to refresh my memory, but so far that 2.5 seems worth the premiums you would incur with it.

    The steering, ride, handling, lack of all noise and the engine were standouts.

    In reading this quote "outdated, underpowered and uncompetitive 170 hp" I have no choice but to determine we must not be thinking of the same engine, and probably not even the same car.

    Sam
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