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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I don't have a hard time accepting anything. All I said was the new Fusion should be even better than the current one and should put Ford back in the lead as far as MPG goes. You're the one that started doing comparisons and got all bent out of shape about it. I don't care either way and I don't have anything against the Camry hybrid. I'm just excited about the new technology.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Using that logic the next version Camry should leapfrog the Ford, and so it goes.
  • Yes, and it's called "improving the breed". This goes beyond hybrids, and even the cars themselves.

    Who benefits? We the consumers do!

    They can "leapfrog" themselves all they want. It's the buyers than benefit in the end.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Looks to me like Toyota will be playing catchup for the next several years. Guess we'll find out in 2012.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Well Fords playing catchup now, so I guess it will be Toyota's turn.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,896
    All I said was the new Fusion should be even better than the current one and should put Ford back in the lead as far as MPG goes

    No, that is not all you said. You said "which would be amazing considering how far ahead it already is." You didn't explain how the currrent Fusion is so far ahead already(which it isn't) and just went on about the rumors you've heard about the future Fusion Hybrid. It appeared that you were failing to recognise the advances in mpg and the lower pricing of the Camry and still thought the current Fusion was ahead. That prompted my comment. I"m sorry if I offended you, it wasn't meant to.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Let's just wait until the 2013 Fusion arrives and we can revisit the issue.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,896
    Just announced that the new Passat has won Motor Trend Car of the Year. Clean and simple design won out. Congrats to VW.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The thunderbird also won car of the year.... :shades
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,896
    Hindsight is always 20-20. :D
  • godeacsgodeacs Posts: 481
    Now let's see VW's reliability get up to speed!
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,217
    OK, I'll bite. What's amazing about it? My take is that while the grill & front end are improvements over the outgoing design, the side is just as boring as ever and the rear is ho-hum.

    Toyota's "booth babes" can't even wear snazzy outfits (style, not sexiness) as they'd outshine the product.
  • Nothing to see here... that was run-of-the-mill spam.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    I know C/D liked the V6 Passat, but that is so... "old-fashioned" these days where more automakers are going the I4 route. And the diesel is interesting for this class. But the mainstream offering that most people will buy with the 170 hp I5 is outclassed in power and FE by almost every other mid-sizer out there, and the styling is so... Impala-ish...

    Sorry, I dozed off there.

    I think it's a sign that the 2012 crop of cars that qualify for MT's criteria isn't too remarkable. And they couldn't do something like make the new Camry COTY because they did that a few years ago and they like to move the award around, from what I've seen.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,217
    I had figured as much based on the wording but thought it might be interesting to see what comments it stirred up. :)
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    edited November 2011
    I think it's a sign that the 2012 crop of cars that qualify for MT's criteria isn't too remarkable. And they couldn't do something like make the new Camry COTY because they did that a few years ago and they like to move the award around, from what I've seen.

    Or, it could mean that, just like the Civic, critics were looking at getting more out of the redesign of the Camry than what was delivered. It seems to me that, according to M/T, VW made the extra effort to make their car a world-class midsize sedan, something that Toyota and Honda just can't seem to do anymore.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Most likely it means that VW had a better marketing plan for the award than anyone else (which means they were willing to spend more money advertising the award which provides free advertising for Motor Trend).

    According to Pete DeLorenzo (autoextremist.com) that is how it works. And he interacted with MT while working for GM.

    Why else would the mfr be REQUIRED to submit a marketing plan before the winner is selected?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    edited November 2011
    What specifically is "world-class" about the new Passat? The only thing I see as unique in this class, in the USA, is availability of a diesel. They have the worst standard powertrain in the class. Styling is... pedestrian (I am being kind). Interior is maybe the nicest feature of the car, but not above the new Camry, Optima, or Sonata IMO. It has a nice smooth ride... but so do other cars in this class. It's roomy in back.. but so are some other mid-sizers. Nothing technologically stands out--the diesel is old hat for VW.

    Yes... what is "world class" about the new Passat?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,896
    I don't disagree that the new Passat is not world class...then again which midsize family sedan could be labeled that right now. You don't like the new styling but that is just an opinion. Many, including myself, think the new Passat is very good looking in a clean and classic, sort of Audilike way that will stand the test of time. It's styled much like the new Jetta which is selling very good and I don't believe it's just because of the lower entry price but is due in part to the styling. The 5cyl does 22/31 mpg which is competitive with several of the current midsize cars like the Altima, Mazda6 and Fusion and has good torque so it's not a bad drivetrain it's just older. If you've sat in all the cars you mentioned the Passat still has the nicest interior. It wasn't cheapened like the Jetta was. I just sat in a new Camry and while the interior has been greatly improved it still isn't as luxurious as the Passat's. The Sonata and Optima interiors may look nice but the quality of the materials is not quite as good IMO.

    Personally, I think the Mazda3 Skyactive would have been a better choice for COTY but I don't think it met the deadlines.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    Mazda3 Skyactiv has a new powertrain and some little tweaks. That's it. The 2012 Focus OTOH is an all-new design compared to 2011 and could easily claim to have set The Benchmark for the compact class. Much more of a "significant" vehicle in these times when buyers are gravitating to smaller, more fuel efficient cars. And MT claims that their COTY rewards the "most significant" car. There's even the new electric Focus for 2012.

    Passat was one of the few new models for 2012 in the mid-sized class. All it had to beat there was the Camry. But not the most significant car overall for 2012 IMO. I'd even pick the Impreza over the Passat--AWD plus fuel efficiency for the first time. That's more significant than a nice mid-sized sedan with styling cues from Audi... and a ten-year-old Chevy. And a nice interior and a smooth ride, but an anemic base powertrain. Nice package. But COTY?
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