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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Seconded, especially the new 6 with the Skyactiv powertrain (high FE and gorgeous) and the Accord. The others are good also, leased a Sonata GLS for my wife last November and she loves it, but it's now one of the oldest designs in the mid-sized class (hard to believe).
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    Also, in terms of the Fusion being American made, that's actually not always the case. I think about half of the Fusions sold here are made in Mexico, and about half are made in Michigan. You'd have to look on the window sticker of the particular car to see where exactly it's made.

    In other words, an Altima, Passat, Optima, Accord, or Sonata might be more "made in USA" than a Ford Fusion.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    All Fusions are built in Mexico until later this year when Flat Rock comes online in Michigan.

    I just bought a 2013 Fusion. This is my 3rd new vehicle and all were new models purchased within the first few months of production. My 06 Fusion was the 2nd one off the truck at the dealer and the only thing I had to do to it over 7.5 years and 60K miles was replace one door handle and change the oil, filter and tires.

    The quality problems with the 2013 Fusion are assembly errors or parts being out of spec or defective from the supplier. Once corrected those problems won't reappear. For example the major delay last October was due to a headlamp problem where the supplier didn't cure the plastic properly. These problems, like the 1.6L fires, appear almost immediately and are fixed just as quickly.

    I don't have any long term reliability issues with any of the current crop of midsized sedans. The worst vehicle today is better than the best vehicle 20 years ago.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    What was the cause of the 1.6l fires?
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    edited January 2013
    Thanks for the info re: where Fusions are made.

    I agree with what you say in that almost all cars today are way beyond what was available 20 years ago.

    The Fusion is a great looking car. And many tests say the handling and performance of the Fusion are both very good.

    I imagine you're probably right about the quality issues. Ford hit a few bumps in the road, but no doubt they are working overtime to fix them.

    There are a lot of great choices for midsize buyers, and the Fusion is definitely in the mix if the quality issues are mostly resolved at this point.
  • romil01romil01 Posts: 75
    Drove a 2014 Mazda6 Grand Touring today. While the exterior is gorgeous and it drove nicely, the interior is nowhere near as nice as the new Accord. The driver's seat felt hard, whereas the Accord's was really plush. Also, the Accord's center stack is much more modern looking. The nav system in the new 6 is pretty antiquated looking. An Accord EX-L V-6 with Nav is slightly more expensive than the Mazda6 GT 4-cylinder, but it seems to be the higher quality vehicle, and the extra power from the V-6 is nice. Yes the Mazda gets better mileage, but I prefer the power. It's too bad Honda didn't do a little more with the exterior of the Accord. It's not ugly, but it doesn't stand out. The new Mazda6 easily trumps all other midsize sedans in looks, even the new Fusion, the Sonata, and the Optima.
  • I can't help but think there might be a ?slight ? exaggeration here....14 hours at 5K ... I just can't figure where, other than a special track where this could possibly be done. If that civic was able to do that even would be pushing credibility some. Allowing for some "writer's license" though, that would really be great.
    van
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 198
    I can't help but think there might be a ?slight ? exaggeration here....14 hours at 5K ... I just can't figure where, other than a special track where this could possibly be done. If that civic was able to do that even would be pushing credibility some. Allowing for some "writer's license" though, that would really be great.

    I, too,chuckled at that until I realized the bridge from San Francisco to Honolulu must now be complete.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    The Fusion should be about as reliable as any of the other choices. Cars are just like that today.

    One small gripe about the Fusion...with the longest wheelbase (over 112"), it should have full-size room, like the Accord and Sonata do. The Passat with 2" less wheelbase is cavernous by comparison. The Ford may be high style, but that doesn't explain the lack of interior room. It is not lower or narrower than any of its rivals. Its back seat hardly even trumps the Malibu's, which rides on a wheelbase many inches shorter.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    edited January 2013
    Personally I prefer the interior esp. the dash of the Mazda6 over the Accord's. The Accord's dash is too over-styled for my taste. I prefer the simpler lines of the Mazda6's dash. It reminds me of the dash of some German luxury cars. Accord's dash... looks like some Japanese engineers were trying too hard. I think the interior styling of the Mazda6 will wear better over time.

    As for exterior... no comparison there, the Accord looks like any Accord from the past 15 years or so. Not bad, and the Genesis-like rear end is an improvement over last generation. But nothing to heighten the pulse rate like the Mazda6, Fusion, Sonata, and Optima. At least the Accord is less boring outside than the Impala... I mean, Passat! ;)
  • hill02hill02 Posts: 3
    Quality/reliability, safety, styling, and handling. When I first started looking for a new sedan the optima was top on my list until I saw the front grill and price tag in person for all the features I want. I'm open to looking at other vehicles I'm just familiar with Ford and Nissan and both vehicles match my 25,000-30,000 price range.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    edited January 2013
    hill wrote:

    "Quality/reliability, safety, styling, and handling. When I first started looking for a new sedan the optima was top on my list until I saw the front grill and price tag in person for all the features I want. I'm open to looking at other vehicles I'm just familiar with Ford and Nissan and both vehicles match my 25,000-30,000 price range."

    There are a lot of great choices in the 25-30k price! The consumer is king in the midsize field because of the intense competition.

    Since you put quality and reliability at the top, let me reveal my personal bias right now in that I owned a Ford and VW long ago that were lemons, and as a result I've written off those brands. But I do realize that Ford and VW are much better today! Ford is having some trouble with the launch of the Fusion, as this article in the WSJ indicates. But perhaps the problems are mostly in the past?:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324640104578165540663925634.html

    "Ford Recalls Cast Spotlight on Fusion

    ...Ford hasn't disclosed how it will fix a problem linked to 13 engine fires in certain 2013 Fusion and Ford Escape crossovers. Ford last week recalled about 19,000 of its 2013 Ford Fusion SE and SEL sedans equipped with a 1.6-liter, 4-cylinder engine....

    Ford said there were no injuries related to the fires, but told owners of the vehicles to stop driving them. As of Thursday, Ford had not come up with a repair for the problem....Ford has said during its quarterly earnings calls that it isn't hitting its goals for improving quality."

    I personally feel that Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, and KIA are probably about equal in quality. And maybe Ford and VW are about the same now too. I just don't know.

    My personal experiences owning a 2002 Accord LX and 2008 Accord EXL is that these have been the two best and most reliable cars I've ever had in 33 years of driving all sorts of brands. Both were made in the Honda factory in Ohio. Both of these cars needed only routine maintenance and nothing else. Perhaps I was lucky, but I do think Honda makes good cars. I plan to buy another new Accord at some point in the next year.

    The Accord earned the top safety rating in the new IIHS small offset crash test. It was the only top selling car to do that, and even outscored the BWM 3 series and Mercedes C class. The Camry got a Poor rating, and so basically failed. Watch this video. It's an eye-opener:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByPAhoeU6UQ

    In terms of style, probably the most exciting choices are the Fusion, Mazda 6 and Optima. As many have said, the Accord has rather subdued styling, which I like, but for many it's just bland.

    In terms of handling the top picks are probably the Passat, Fusion and Accord.

    For me visibility is an important thing. I don't like blind spots, which I now have on my 2010 Mazda 5. My Accords were/are so outstanding in terms of visibility that I took it for granted somehow that other cars were similar. But they simply are not. Most cars have thick rear pillars and small windows in back that made for a closed-in coupe like feel and poor visibility. That's the trade-off often for flashy styling. My wife and I argue in a good natured way about who gets to drive the "good car"—which for us means the Honda.

    As you can tell, I favor the Accord. That's what I'm going to buy. But there are lots of good choices!

    I imagine the people who like KIA, Ford, VW, Hyundai, etc., will add in their 2 cents.

    I hope you test drive at least 3 different cars before you make your choice to see what YOU actually like the best.

    Happy shopping! Hope you'll let us know how it goes.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,054
    Don't drive yourself insane with this decision. You really can't go wrong with any of the current mid-size sedan lineup.

    For example: I personally am afraid of CVT's still. I like the idea of actual gears and not a band that will wear out at some point. It is probably silly to even have this preference, since both are tested, tested, and re-tested for reliability. I am sure both units will last a long while.

    My point is that after you have done your homework and know that 2 or three cars meet your needs; then buy the ONE THAT YOU LOVE.

    It's a big purchase. Enjoy it .
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,588
    Watched the latest episode today, and they compared 5 mid size sedans. Criteria was 28K sticker max. Reviewers were from a few magazine/car sites, and a local family.

    in the end, the Accord won. Not a "star" in any one area, but very good in all of them.

    the Altima finished last, and they did not eve talk about it. 4th was the Camry. 3rd was the Optima (I think) and 2nd was the fusion.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Too bad they didn't include the new Mazda6, or the Passat.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    It was a combination of assembly issues, software and cooling system design. It really was a perfect storm of multiple things. The software change will prevent future problems.

    I think Ford has been consciously pushing hard to get a lot of new vehicles out the door in a short time and now it's catching up to them. But these aren't long term reliability problems and most are being caught before customers are taking delivery.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Comparo was conducted prior to the Mazda being officially for sale. Don't know why the Passat was excluded. IMO or my guess I should say is that sometimes they just limit the number of cars in a comparo because otherwise it can just get way to confusing or that is all the testers they could get ast the same time from the manufacturers.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    edited January 2013
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Yes, and CVTs are hardly a new(er) idea. A CVT was first installed in a car in 1896. A CVT was first used in a motorcycle in 1910. DAF (later Volvo) started using them almost exclusively in the late 1950s. In 1987, Ford, Subaru and Fiat began installing them in subcompacts (Fiesta, Justy and Uno). The objection most people have had with the transmission spooling up to peak power rpm while accelerating (with the resulting drone) has been largely muted. Today they provide good power delivery with the best mpg as compared to a stick or automatic or even dual clutch automatic.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Hey, you're right. That IS a pic. Good one.
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