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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    don't give as much weight to JD Power as I do to Consumer Reports, because they report "problems per 100 vehicles.

    Consumer Reports breaks the problems down further, so you can see the reliablilty rating for each car by categories such as Engine, Transmission, Body, Accesories, etc.

    I personally (that means this is an opinion) feel the complete opposite as Consumer Reports uses self reported data from a subset of the population. If I was living in a vacuum and had no other source of information for a purchase decision, I would go with CR (they were great when picking appliances), put I *personally* don't have a lot of faith in their automotive reliability rankings.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I really don't care much about these IQS numbers, either.

    However, CR has it's own problems, as well. Relying on self-reporting and evaluation of "significant problems" that may have occured as much as 12 months ago is just one.

    I actually give the most weight to the expected costs. This can be determined by pricing identical extended warranties from a single vendor for each model. Edmunds also bases their predicted repair costs on this. The differences between models of mid-size sedans are usually quite small.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Um, that was last year. The latest report, which came out yesterday, shows Mazda in a lower position relative to other brands. Hard for someone who likes Mazda (which includes me) to see, but consider Mazda has released several new models in the past year. That may account at least partially for the relatively poor result for 2007. Same for Hyundai... with all the new models they have released in the past year, it is more difficult to maintain their high rating from the recent past.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    A Honda with "issues?" That even sounds odd. Would you care to elaborate? Nothing major, I trust. All cars, IMHO, have some issues, a squeak here, a rattle there, a bulb that burns out too soon. That sort of thing.

    Oh I don't know. I bought a 2006 Civic which was totally redesigned that year and it has NOT been "even better". I have had quite a few un-Honda like issues so apparently you cannot automatically "bank" on Honda for that.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    That 3 year study is potentially more useful to an extent, but think about what the numbers actually show. My wife's "un-dependable" VW would have 3 expected problems, while the super-duper dependable Mercury will have 1.5.

    I don't know about anybody else, but a difference of 1.5 "problems" during the warranty period is not going to sway me one way or the other. So what this confirms (for me) is that "reliability" is, for the most part, a non-issue in choosing a mid-size sedan.

    The typical range in expected repair costs of maybe $500 over 100,000 miles is also not going to influence my choice of midsize sedans.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,824
    We're coming pretty close to on-topic, but if we could take the more general comments about how vehicles are rated to the dedicated Consumer Reports/JD Powers rankings discussion, it would be much appreciated.

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  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    And that's the point I was about to make. Even the worst vehicle today is so much more reliable than the best car 10 years ago. Reliability really isn't the big issue it used to be except for maybe a few outlying vehicles.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    those cars that have statistically proven to be 'better' in those reliability/residual value-cost to own studies will always top my list and after that it generally comes down to power and refinement under the hood, which generally is my true top priority.
    This from my post 1724, and I thought it answered your priority question pretty directly.
    More to the point is that, I probably don't buy the Accord or the Camry and lean towards the Altima (with that great V6 naturally). A car that does a relatively decent job holding its value (but not up to Camcord standards) and is admittedly short of Camcord type fit and finish - the redesigned 07 is a big improvement. Given that I believe that overall it falls short of Honda/Toyota then why is an Altima on the top of list? It's simple - experience - have put something in the neighborhood of 6-700k miles on my last 4 of them and not a one of them has ever had any problems, and that 3.5 V6 is outstanding. I did find the CVT disconcerting on the new Altima, but my wife loved it - it does make driving even less involving then even the 4 spd automatic in my current 3.5, so much so that I think that anybody that would even consider a stick will have no part of it.
  • orbit9090orbit9090 Posts: 110
    >> jeffyscott says: 'reliability is, for the most part, a non-issue in choosing a mid-size sedan.'

    Remind your family of that when your VW :lemon: leaves you stranded on the highway...
    "Hey kids, sorry about your frostbite...but it's only a few more problems than a more reliable sedan would have had."

    Even if the problems are minor, just be glad YOU have time to waste with the pompous VW dealership, and enjoy the rot-gut Max-Swill-House coffee.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Even the worst vehicle today is so much more reliable than the best car 10 years ago. Reliability really isn't the big issue it used to be except for maybe a few outlying vehicles.
    agreed - if I keep up with routine maintainence, I expect at least 100k troublefree miles out of any vehicle I would buy although I will stay away from those cars that are seemingly overinfected with electronic doodads. BMW/MBs problems, IMO, have very little to do with anything other than overinfestation of technology, from an objective perspective - they both build great cars otherwise.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    I'd be glad to even though a Civic doesn't qualify for this discussion not exactly being mid sized. I bought the car new in Nov 2005 with about 9 miles or so showing. On the drive home from the dealer I noticed a faint noise from the right rear suspension on some types of bumps. I blew it off because this was a Honda after all (our first). My wife took over regularly driving the car to work and I only fueled, washed, and maintained it driving it short distances for those jobs. While I did start to notice an increase in the severity of the noise by July 2006 even my wife who wouldn't notice if she was dragging the transmission for 1/2 mile (an overstatement to be sure)said "there is a noise in the car. I already knew a problem existed and researched for any Honda TSB's but didn't find one for this. I finally took it back to the selling dealer in late July where an inspection found not only was the right rear shock bone dry (all fluid leaked out) which is what I suspected but additionally the left side shock was leaking badly. Both were replaced under warranty BUT I had to take off a 1/2 day from work,wait around etc. That cleared up one noise but made things quiet enough I could hear another which was a "drone" from the engine at around 1500 RPM in high gear. Honda issued a TSB for this one much later and I got the fix which worked. Now, yet another noise, this one in the right front while hitting certain types of bumps has been identified as a faulty motor mount by Honda. This one is pending because I have not had the time to take it in for repair. Additionally, the interior plastic is very prone to scratches especially, as design would have it, near the armrests/door pulls where one is sure to blindly grasp to shut the door resulting in many scratches/scrapes there. But interior wise the worst problem by far is the fact the cloth upholstry material is wearing on the driver seat cushion bolster. The woven? in pattern has all but disappeared on a 3 x 2 inch or so patch where our butts slide on entering and leaving the car. Currently the car has around 8,700 miles and I feel while it has not had all the problems 2006 Civics CAN have there have been enough relatively minor problems to send me packing back to Hyundai. Scroll through the service bulletins for this year/model where at last count over a dozen exist and some are pretty "bad" e.g. about 7 ea. oil sealing bolts scattered around the engine that don't seal resulting in partial engine teardown for replacement. Power steering leaks, engine immobilizer problems resulting in no-start conditions etc. Nope whomever said reputation doesn't sell cars is sold me a Honda. My first inclination was a 2006 Sonata but that is another story.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Why can't an Accord owner/lover state he thinks the Accord is best in its class? Its not like its an outlandish statement."

    Then why can't a Fusion/Sonata/Mazda owner state they think thier sedan is the best in its class?? This is not an "outlandish" statement either.. :sick:
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "their "intelligent" decision on that fact then why does the Camry consistently outsell the Accord"

    Same way I guess McDonalds sells more burgers than Burger King I guess.. ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    More precisely...

    * What is the sales per dealer? (Per-store sales is an important metric in the sales business. Toyota has more dealers than Honda.)

    * How many are sold to fleets? (Many more Camrys are sold to fleets than Accords.)
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    lean towards the Altima

    I thought I'd test drive the 07 Altima this weekend. I've only sat in it and played with the controls a bit, but I agree - what a nice ride.

    I like it much more than the Maxima - what's up with that funky Maxima grill BTW?

    I think the high end Altima cannibalizes the Maxima sales.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Lets try this one again..

    No comments? Looks like Ford is doing pretty darn well.. I'm going to have to keep this link around and spread the word. :shades:
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I think the average age of the Camry is higher than the Accord's. The Accord is also a more athletic ride which probably appeals to a younger driver.

    Both have the advantage of buyers walking on the lot, look at some colors, and saying "I'll take that one" more than most other makes.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Read many of the previous posts. You're late to the IQS party around here.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    An interesting post, target. Thanks for the info. I guess it illustrates that even Hondas can have problems. It's always been my contention that any make or model can have problems regardless of surveys or testings or ratings.

    We also considered the Hyundai Sonata but one dealer in our town owns the franchises for Hyundai, Mazda, Honda and Nissan while Sherwood Ford, Lincoln, Mercury has a sterling reputation and has been excellent to deal with. We own a 1997 Thunderbird and a 2000 Focus station wagon in addition to the 2007 Fusion.

    Eventually, all cars end up going back to the dealer for something, even if it is just oil changes or tire rotations. The dealer's excellent reputation was a big factor in our purchase of a Fusion. The bold, distinctive styling also played a large part.

    We've only had the car six months and 3,420 miles but, so far (knock on wood) it's yet to have a single squeak, rattle or thump. There has been zero recalls and not a single Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) has applied to our car. We sure hope this trend continues for the years to come.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Any car can have problems. You take your chances. See this post as an example of the irony of it all.

    bdkinnh, "BMW 5-Series Sedans" #11855, 6 Jun 2007 10:08 am
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