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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    I had a 94 Integra, and 142 HP was awesome at the time for that size engine.

    It handled like it was on rails. My 6'2" frame fit great in the Integra, but not in my brother-in-laws 94 Civic EX. Funny, since the the 94 Integra IS a Civic.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    You are absolutely right. Most people incorrectly adjst their side mirrors so that they can see the side of their car in the mirror. They should be adjusted so that as soon as the car in back begins to disappear from the rear view mirror it immediately appears in the side mirror. Also, a quick glance over your shoulder for good measure does not hurt.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    What about Acura with all the V6s they use? Haven't heard about a lot of transmission problems there. Do they use an entirely different tranny than Honda uses in the Accord/Odyssey/Pilot? Why don't they just use the Acura tranny if that can handle the 300+ HP of the TL SHAWD and the MDX?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    Yes, all these people that complain about blind spots and ghost cars make me laugh. How do they think all the cargo van and truck drivers avoid accidents? They can't see a lick out the back on either side. They use their mirrors correctly. The only time they can't see a car behind is if it's right on their bumper. That's why they have a little sigh on the back that says something like "if you can't see my mirrors I can't see you". Reversely, if you can see their mirror they CAN see you. Why? Because they have the damn things adjusted correctly. If you do there are no blind spots.

    I have a friend who didn't have their mirrors adjusted correctly but they were so stubborn they just wouldn't believe they "weren't doing it right". I stood outside their car about where a car on the left would be passing and stood where the drivers side bumper would be approximately just as it would disappear from the rear view mirror. I told them to look in their side mirror and they couldn't see a thing but the side of their car. Had him adjust the mirror out, and out, and out some more until they could see me standing there. I told him that is where your mirror should be adjusted. His response, "well I can't see the side of my car now". I said why the hell do you want to see the side of YOUR car, do you have some sort of fetish or something? You want to see lane next to you. Same goes for the other side of the car. He is finally a convert.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited February 2013
    This is what I paid on 12/28/11 for my car.

    2012 Optima EX MSRP: 24,260.

    Negotiated $21,860, plus $1000 to extend basic powertrain 100k warranty to 100k bumper to bumper.

    SO $22,860 with leather, zebrano wood, and all the goodies except heated seats, power pass seat, and Navi. Added $100 Garmin from Best Buy.

    -Dealer included all weather floor mats on top of the carpeted ones already included
    -Rubber/plastic trunk tray
    Bumper "applique"

    Added Lojack $500.

    Dealer paperwork/ doc-prep $250.

    $ 23,710

    zero down or trade (sold my Jeep outright)

    60 mos X 4.5% financing and 4.5% tax = $2110 + 23710 = $25,820 Total of Payments

    monthly payment = $432 mo.

    The VA tax was $1055. My rate of 4.5% and the tax rate of also 4.5% was a coincidence.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    As I mentioned, the 4 cylinder transmission design can handle normal driving with a V6. It's when you add in 6+ people and/or cargo that things go bad. Since almost all Acuras only have 3 or 4 people in them at most and aren't carrying cargo, Honda manages to get away with it without a redesign.

    Also, most of the minivans and SUVs are 500-1000lbs heavier than a typical sedan. The fact remains that Honda transmissions fail a lot more than their competition if you have a vehicle with a V6 in it.

    IME, though, Honda manuals are almost video game easy to drive and the performance of an Accord or similar with a manual and a 4 cylinder engine is the same as with a V6 and automatic in actual driving around town. Loads less to break and less money spent.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    In case you didn't know it the MDX is a SUV and has over 300hp and can seat 7 people and I'm sure they are loaded to gills at times. Since they have the SHAWD I'm sure they are also driven hard by many owners. The transmission should at least be built to withstand the rigors of the weight capacity of the vehicle. I haven't heard of any major problems with the MDX which probably weighs close to the Odyssey as well.

    I realize that Honda and Acura if I recall had some problems with transmissions in the early 2000s from like 2011-2003 but haven't had any major issue since then so this may be an old problem that you are "warning" people about.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited February 2013
    Hey guys. Have you all seen the new Lincoln MKZ? I know this is mid-size sedans, but we all know that it's a Fusion underneath. The last MKZ was almost stupidly half-a**, but this one is something else. It deserves the Lincoln name, and I hope Ford can pull off it's new "Lincoln Motor Company" strategy. -

    Here is a link to C/D first drive. I love it. Make mine black and it looks like a modern bat-mobile.

    Also, read the full review of the 2014 Mazda6. I like it. It looks great in red and the instrument cluster is very BMW looking. Also, the side view reminds me of the Monte-Carlo's of '75-' a good way.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Since the Accord's CVT is a new design for Honda, I would wait a few years to see if Honda has worked out any potential "bugs" in it

    Car testers of various publications do not like CVT transmissions.

    I own a 2001 Odyssey and have had to replace the transmission 3 times already.

    Have a 2000 Ody with 87K miles. Transmission has been perfect, no problems. Never drive abusively, though I have helped some folks do moving, loading up the Ody with furniture, cabinets, dressers, etc. Never have towed anything with it.

    In my and wife sample of 6 V6 equipped Hondas and Acuras, still have 3 (Acuras, Ody), the auto transmissions have been perfect. In over half million miles of driving.

    An 86 Accord (4 cyl of course) we had, the auto transmission did fail at 217K miles and needed a rebuilt replacement from Honda. I think 217K failure was acceptable back in the 1990's.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    Some Odyssey transmissions 10+ years ago were bad. No doubt about it. And it took them a while to get the design down. But for the last few years Honda autos have been more rugged and longer lasting.

    I think the new CVT will be long lasting too, but it's true that it's a new design and so it's something of an unknown. I read somewhere that Honda put huge R & D into the composite material belt of their new CVT to make it last longer. In other words, it's designed to take it and last.

    Honda manuals are the best in the biz. Better than BMW many say....
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Leather, but no heated seats?? I thought Hyundai/Kia stopped doing that with the old Elantra GT, that had leather standard but no heated seats available. I have one of those. The leather feels cold on those winter mornings! (Hyundai at least has seen the error of their ways and now includes heated seats standard on the Elantra GT, even with cloth.)
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 221
    A little something I found on the internet about honda transmissions. My 2000 accord 4 cyl had 3 replacement transmission in it before hitting 100k miles.

    Honda Accord, Civic & Odyssey Transmission Failure

    Widespread Transmission Problems Leave Honda Owners Up in Arms

    Transmission failure with the Honda Accord, Civic and Odyssey is a widespread problem in models made from 1999-2004. The 2003 Honda Accord, 2001 Honda Civic and 2002 Honda Odyssey appear to be the worst years for transmission failure.

    This is an issue with automatic transmissions and owners are reporting an average repair cost of $2,291. More than half the reported problems are happening under 90k miles, with 1 in 5 breaking down before the odometer hits 70k.
    What Causes This Transmission Problem

    If your engine will rev up, but the car won't shift into gear or move it could be a defective torque converter. In fact, the majority of Honda owners with transmission problems are saying the torque converter is failing and essentially burning up the transmission fluid, rendering the entire transmission useless.

    What is Honda Doing to Fix the Problem?

    Honda has offered some owners out-of-warranty compensation for the transmission repairs. Rather than going through your local dealership, it's best to contact Honda Customer Service at (800) 999-1009 and ask for a "goodwill repair". If you can provide proof that you followed Honda's recommended maintenance schedule, Honda may offer to pay a portion of the repair bill -- typically 50%, although some 2003 vehicle owners have reported having up to 75% covered.

    Watch out for Honda dealerships' abnormally high repair bill though. As one owner put it, "Honda has offered to cover half the repair cost. The problem is they want $5,000 to fix it. Are they nuts???" An independent repair shop will generally do the same replacement for $2,500 or less. Just make sure you get a comparable warranty on parts because the rebuilt replacement transmissions can fail just as quickly, if not sooner.

    2004 Honda Transmission Recall

    In 2004, Honda finally admitted to the problem with their 600,000 vehicle recall. Honda decided to recall the transmissions, at an estimated cost of $153 million to the company, after finding “10 transmission failures” according to Honda spokesman Chuck Schifsky. We're not sure where Mr. Schifsky is getting his information, because we've seen hundreds and hundreds of owner complaints. Honda later expanded the recall to include nearly 1.1 million vehicles.
    The models covered were the 2002-4 Odyssey; the 2003–4 Pilot; the 2001–2 Acura MDX; the 2003–4 Accord V-6; the 2000–4 Acura 3.2 TL and the 2001–3 Acura 3.2 CL.

    Unfortunately Honda's transmission repairs, especially for those engines that had less than 15k miles before the recall, were not guaranteed to keep working. According to the Wheels blog on

    In a complaint filed with the Center for Auto Safety, Jeremy Berens of Vienna, Va., said his 2003 Accord was recalled when it had fewer than 15,000 miles on the odometer. But it failed in December, with the mileage at about 67,000, as he tried to merge onto a busy highway.

    “I was nearly rear-ended and had no warning,” he wrote in his complaint. “Honda has not properly fixed the recall that occurred in 2004 and are failing to recognize that a problem exists.”

    He said Honda agreed to pay 40 percent of the repair after the district manager interceded on his behalf, but it still cost him $2,750.

    2006 Honda Transmission Class Action Settlement

    In 2006 a class-action lawsuit was settled against Honda in the Superior Court of California for Alameda County. The suit claimed that Honda misled consumers by selling them vehicles with defective transmissions. Honda settled the case without ever admitting a defect and denied the charges.

    Owners covered in the lawsuit were given an extension of the transmission warranty to 93 months or 109,000 miles (whichever comes first), starting when the vehicle is first purchased or leased. According to court records, the plaintiff’s lawyers received nearly $5.5 million in addition to expenses, according to court records.

    The models covered were the 2000–1 Accord; 1999–2001 Odyssey; 2000–1 Prelude; 1999–2 Acura 3.2 TL and 2001–2 Acura 3.2 CL. The problem is most of those vehicles are well past the 93-month time limit and some owners are unhappy because they're left to cover the bill when their transmissions fail outside the warranty extension, with repairs sometimes costing up to $4,000.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    thanks for the info. Now I guess we can get back to discussing midsize cars in general and not Honda transmissions as the problem was 10+ years ago.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    2012 Optima was rated good on IIHS test across the board. Big reason to buy for me. 3 kids under 12. Kia sweated the details. In 15 months and as many miles, not one thing has gone wrong on my car.

    The Audi designer/engineer that Kia hired away (Peter Schreyer) knows his stuff. A better set of tires would make a big difference in handling. I am looking forward to a Set of Pirelli's at 30k. :)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    edited February 2013
    What kind of tires were standard?

    And yes, the Optima is a very nice car. It has a lot of style, quality, value, and performance for the money. And made in USA+++

    Like you I like Peter S's work, but at least we agree he should fix those blind spots for the next gen.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 221
    I may soon be in the market for a midsize and the accord is one of the cars I would consider. After reading about the complaints about the CVT shuddering/pulsing I did a quick search and found the article below. If I get an accord I think I may just wait a year to see if they get this worked out.

    Honda Cvt Gearbox Problems:
    Drive Belt Slip
    The CVT gearbox drive-belt slippage problem mentioned by the website Honda Problems occurs during acceleration. The problem affects the automatic transmission, causing the car to shudder and hesitate when accelerating. The CVT gearbox may also affect acceleration, causing speed reduction when the engine is about to make maximum revolutions per minute.

    CVT gearbox noise related to clutch slip during acceleration is mentioned by The noise is generated via the pulley and belt system that supports the gear ratio change-through. Adjusting the belt back to position corrects the problem.

    Fluid Leak
    The CVT gearbox automatic transmission ATF fluid leaks mentioned by Honda Problems cause low ATF level and require top off. A dealer should check a CVT gearbox to make adjustments as recommended in the manufacturer's car owner's manual
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    REF: 17574

    That info you posted comes from a 2005 Civic complaint. is it relevant to the 2013 Accord?
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 221
    REF: 17574

    It tells me that honda has a history of transmission problems and perhaps buying a first year transmission from honda would not be a wise thing for me to do.
  • I agree. I never buy a first-year model of any make. But, i am considering leasing since the warranty covers all for the term of the lease. I did that with my current Sonata and it has been very reliable.
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