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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • trusso69trusso69 Posts: 68
    The new Accord uses 0W-20 synthetic oil; not sure when they started that. What oil viscosity was in your Dad's 2009 Accord V-6?
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    edited March 2013
    I think it's 5w20, but I don't believe synthetic was recommended originally. The dealer switched him to synthetic a month or so ago saying that honda recommends it now.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    edited March 2013
    I'd switch back to a 5w20. Preferably a high-mileage oil as it has higher levels of zinc and other anti-wear additives. (Castrol GTX/High mileage) is a good choice, IMO.

    I started learning about oils about 7 or 8 years ago when I had an engine in my 60s Mercedes eat itself within six months of the EPA mandating lower levels of additives in oils. And it's gotten worse since then. This is all due to rules concerning catalytic converters and warranties on them. The additives protect your engines very very well, but they also are death to a catalytic converter. When oils were at the older 1600ppm standard, almost nobody's CAT would last close to 100K miles. So they lowered it to 1200ppm and more of them are making it to 100K. Soon it will be 800ppm or lower as they are aiming for mandating lifetime durability.

    So your CAT lasts for the life of the car. Too bad your engine won't.

    Note - oils sold in other countries don't follow this idiocy. It's why you rarely hear of engines dying from oil related issues overseas. a CAT is cheap to replace compared to the entire block.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    edited March 2013
    Interesting. Despite the changes with motor oils you still don't see many engines failing early IMO. I've got 117k miles on my 07 Expedition and every oil change has been in the 4-6k mile range with whatever my local independent tire shop puts in it. I know they use the recommended 5w-20, but I think it's bulk mobile. Despite doing lots of heavy towing in hot weather it's never used a drop of oil.

    Most people don't pay attention to what oil goes into their engines yet it seems more cars are making it to 200k than ever. My MIL has almost 190k on her '05 Camry without any special care regarding oil. Like most, when the oil change light comes on, she takes it in for an oil change.

    I know what you mean regarding the cats. We purchased a new boat last year that has catalytic converters (thanks EPA) and it states in the manual that a specified synthetic oil must be used in order to protect cats.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited March 2013
    Yes, I understand that there are power losses in the driveline when it comes to dyno testing, and that the figures are usually 25% lower at the wheels.

    I also know that the VW 2.0T is underrated. One magazine ventured to say that " it is the strongest 200 HP we have ever seen". Still... It tells me that the Germans are still more reputable than the Koreans. A 50 HP deficit is substantial. If it came in at 170 I would be fine with that. Cadillac also took a hit when it's 2.0T(270HP) was accused of being 40 HP short by C/D in a recent comparo against it's nemesis ; the BMW 528.I guess it is legal to advertise 270HP ; even if it's only between 5700 to 5701rpm. The next car I buy is going to be a step up to luxury sport sedans; and I will make sure it's numbers are vetted.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited March 2013
    Hey, I really appreciate your thoughts on the K&N filter. The last thing I need is a damaged engine. However, I can't get over the fact that my '94 SHO was equipped with one from the factory. It ran for 150K w/o incident until I sold it.

    I see by your post that you have engine repair experience, so I consider your advice to be accurate/expert. Still, I read that the K&N was even better at filtering fine particulates, even when new. So, I will check into it further. The good news is I am not married to it. I can always just pop in a OEM type unit.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    I also know that the VW 2.0T is underrated.

    That or very good at getting most of the power to the ground. Regardless, I've sampled a few and they do indeed feel strong for their power rating. Probably has to do with having a broad powerband.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    The K&N does not filter as well as OEM when first installed. That's the whole point - to allow more air at WOT. As the filter works it slowly fills in with particles such that it probably does filter just as well as OEM. But when that happens you're also not getting any more airflow than OEM either. Buy it for the sound or to avoid buying new ones but not for power.
  • marcus216marcus216 Posts: 78
    Just curious if anyone out there with a 2013 Honda accord with Hondalink has had audio issues. I have had my Honda Accord EXL V6 only a few days and I had an instance of a buzzing/static sound coming from the audio on any source. Even when I turned the audio off, I could hear the buzzing/static sound. When I turned the car off and re-started, the issue was resolved, as if restarting the engine allows the audio system to reset itself. I am wondering if this is due to the active noise cancellation system? I called m dealer and talked with the service manager and he told me that they have not seen this issue. I found this video on YouTube from a guy who has experienced the same thing. Interesting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV0Wq23Y9_M
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    I bought it for the sound mostly. I did some more research. The way the K&N works is by channeling the air through multiple layers of cotton fiber. It is kind of like a folded sock with the hole at the front where the air comes in. Also, it is not dusty where I live (NOVA). My only concern would be spring pollen.

    It's not loud enough that it sounds like a boy-racer Civic Del-Sol with primer ground effects,neon lights underneath, formula one sized wing, stuffed with sub-woofers, and a trash can sized exhaust pipe. LOL.

    See funny commercial here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXhZqW-4vV8
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    edited March 2013
    Modern engines of course, can get away with the lower levels. But many cars are still using engines designed on 1970s or 80s designs. Also, lower revving engines can pretty much run on anything that looks like it might be oil :)

    1200ppm seems to be the lower limit for those engines, but you don't know how your older engine will run on the newer 800ppm oils until you see it blow up (or not).

    "High mileage" oil is regular 800ppm oil that is allowed to be at the older 1200ppm standard by the EPA. Any sane person, IMO, would want to run with higher levels of anti-wear additives in their engine and ignore whether the cat will live an extra few years. My car has 120K on it and it's already worn out enough without playing Roulette with the oil.

    Note - about synthetic. Synthetics are superior to conventional oils in every way except for one:
    - They have a specific issue in that while they fail at vastly greater intervals than conventional oil, when they do fail, minus the anti-wear additives, they provide almost no protection. That is, the base stock that they use for conventional oil provides some innate protection. You can even clean it and recycle it for another use. You cannot do this with synthetic. Once it's used, it's done with.

    So as long as you change your synthetic oil often enough, that is, before it fails, you're good to go. But since every synthetic is formulated differently and every manufacturer's interval is different, well, it's kind of a big single issue in my mind. Can you go 10K? 15k? 20k? Who knows?

    IMO, the smart compromise is a synthetic blend as if the synthetic part fails for whatever reason, there's still something to fall back on. Maybe not a lot, but probably just enough to keep your bottom bearings from eating themselves. And, it's a lot cheaper as well.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,426
    "...with synthetic. Once it's used, it's done with."

    Never heard this before. I wonder why they let you recycle synthetic in the same vat with regular oil if they are a ticking bomb about to fail. :confuse:
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    Do you have an i-pod or phone....or any other device plugged in to the aux input or the USB port? Said device could have it's audio all the way up (so it sounds good through the car stereo and has all of the desired volume (basically it would be more like the gain being up all the way). With the volume all the way up and your stereo off, said device still has enough output to make the static/buzzing sound through the car's speakers. Check it out.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    There's "recycling" oil in terms of safely removing it from the environment and there's oil made from recycled oils. As far as I know, the shops are supposed to collect them separately but since almost nobody does, they mix the resulting (mostly conventional with some synthetic) mixture with some new synthetic and market it as "recycled".

    Valvoline mixes 50% processed but used oil with 50% new oil in their formulation. Others may vary.

    (from their site/advert)
    "When you buy a new bottle of motor oil, what you're actually getting is a liquid that contains 85 percent motor oil and 15 percent additives. When that motor oil runs through your engine for a few thousand miles and gets "used," all that really happens is that additives get contaminated and useless, while the 85 percent motor oil is still there, still okay. This 85 percent is called base oil, and it can be reclaimed and turned into new motor oil."

    They can get away with this trick because in most cars, they can actually go 5-6K or more between changes now, and since a lot of people still change conventional oils at 3-4K, there's a decent enough safety margin.
  • One of the complaints on the new Accords. Search the web, Honda should have a fix for this.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited March 2013
    I actually find the new Verano to be a very attractive car. I would not consider it a large sedan, nor would I consider it a luxury sedan (starts at $23,080 with the "standard group" 2.4).

    $24,375 with the "convenience" group. (comparable to EX trim on Honda and Kia)

    $26,755 with the leather group

    $29,000. Leather/convenience/Turbo

    These prices and specs fall right in line with all of our cars.

    The engine specs totally meet all the mid size sedan specs: 180 HP 2.4, 250 HP Turbo 4.

    6 speed automatic or, astonishingly for a Buick, a 6 speed manual is available with the Turbo.

    I found the specs on Buick's site: http://www.buick.com/verano-luxury-sedan/features-specs/trims-equipment-groups.h- tml
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Funny, my experience with Honda runs 180 degrees counter to this stellar "care" by Honda USA
    I'll explain, we bought a 2006 Civic new in Oct 2005, it was my first Honda of any type. I routinely checked on TSB's for the then new Civic just to keep an eye on things. In the summer of 2006 a TSB showed up with the picture of a Civic block (front and rear) and outlined in RED were the paths two potential cracks in the block one in front and one in back. I began to see reports soon after of owners having cracking blocks which immediately dumped the coolant destroying the engines. These people were complaining that these cracks were showing up without any negative input from them i.e. running low on coolant/oil etc. Honda was denying claims left and right fixing them with new short blocks and charging the customer whatever the freight would bear ...the more they complained the more Honda would pony-up. Some paid the entire thing (around $5000), some paid different amounts depending on the level of customer complaint or Honda loyalty meaning they owned several Honda's previously. Honda actually required receipts of ALL Honda services done only at a Honda service center before even considering compensation. Thing is, this was a metalurgy or engineering issue and it continued from the 2006 through 2008 model years. No, it never happened to me BUT in January of 2011 I (and all Current Civic owners) received an "extended engine warranty" covering the cracked block problem. This after "only" 6 years of ownership. Honda finally fessed up to having a problem. Countless owners paid varying amounts to have this fixed over the years leading up to this. So, the idea of quickly addressing this particular problem on Honda's part is a joke. Kicking and screaming maybe!!
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    Verano is a compact built on the Cruze frame. The Regal is the midsize offering from Buick. IMO Buick is in no mans land...not quite luxury, not quite mainstream. The Malibu is the car that fits in this group but if want to talk Buick, it's the Regal. The Lacrosse is full size.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    You may still want to step up to lux for your next car, but the 2013 Honda Accord seems to not only meet its power rating but may be underrated according to this dyno test of the 4 cylinder by temple of vtec. They take the car all the way to the electronically limited max speed of 127mph (without going anywhere, of course):

    http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=1136687&page_number=2
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    As some of you saw, I was warned that the K & N filter may not completely protect my engine completely, or at least as well as the stock paper filter. It turns out that my Optima has a secondary hepa fine particulate filter just before air enters the engine. So, no need to worry about it. It also has a cabin filter on a secondary tube for the A/C. Can't wait to try it out tomorrow on my high speed commute.
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