Midsize Sedans 2.0

backy

Yes, Malibu will have a 170 hp Ecotec and also a (mild) hybrid option--said to be the lowest-priced hybrid yet. And come next March, the I4 will have a 6-speed AT (comes out of the gate with just a 4 speed). And it's (dare I say) a looker--IMO much better looking than Camry or Accord. I see a lot of Auras on the road, and Chevy has a much bigger dealer network, so if the Malibu is at least on a par with the Aura, sales should be brisk.

backy

Your list of the top three MUST-HAVE features in your new midsize car, besides the obvious A/C, Stereo, PW/PL etc... and what model fits your needs best? Which ones needs work?

1. Safety - both active and passive. That would mean at least six airbags, active head restraints, good IIHS crash test scores, ABS, and ESC.
2. Comfortable and flexible driving position. As Leslie Nielsen said in Police Squad (or one of its sequels maybe), "A guy's gotta be comfortable!" That means a multi-adjustable seat with dual (or power) height adjuster, a telescopic wheel, and ideally an adjustable lumbar support.
3. Smooth, compliant, quiet ride without being mushy. I drive on the pot-holed highways and byways of Minnesnowta most of the time. 'Nuff said?

I haven't driven the new Accord yet (well, very few people have, right?), nor the new Malibu, nor even the Altima. Right now, there isn't a single mid-sized car that meets all of these criteria. The Legacy comes closest, but is pricey, the ride is a little too firm for my taste, and it has too small a back seat for my needs (that would be #4 on the list). If the Optima gets a "Good" on the IIHS side crash test, it will move to the top of my list for mid-sized sedans. At least until I drive the Accord, Malibu, Altima, 2009 Mazda6... Another intriguing option for me, assuming it scores a "Good" on the IIHS side test, is the Elantra SE. It's mid-sized where it counts (inside) but compact outside (and in price). But is well-equipped including standard ESC, has comfortable seating front and rear, and a smooth ride with decent handling. The Versa is another compact with mid-sized room, but it doesn't offer ESC. Otherwise it's high on my list; it's one of the few low-priced cars (Civic is another) that aced the IIHS tests.

bhmr59

That 170 HP should supply adequate power for most situations.

My '05 Sonata has 170 HP and 180 lb-ft of torque. I have never been in a situation where I felt a need for more HP or torque.

Not for racing, but for pulling our of a side street or merging onto a limited access highway, my car has plenty of juice.

backy

The interesting option to me is the hybrid, if it has more power than the standard I4, better fuel economy, and is still priced less than the Accord and Camry I4s.

elroy5

And it's (dare I say) a looker--IMO much better looking than Camry or Accord.

Have you noticed that "looks" don't get you very far in this segment. "Substance" sells here. If the Malibu sells well, it will be because the 4cyl version is competitive with the competition. Being "on par" with the Aura, is not what the Malibu needs to do, IMO. V6 cars (of any brand) do not sell very well in this segment. If Chevy wants to sell high numbers of Malibus it should not copy the Aura.

m1miata

Well the Aura XR would have sold better had they not watered down the V6 image for the Aura in the first place with the XE 3.5 V6. This two flavors of engine and transmissions became a distraction for the Aura as seen as the really cool Euro - American car to compete with the likes of say the V6 Camry, Altima and Accord. But oh no, here we go with the old, we'll give you six cylinders for the price of four cylinders, with an old four speed tranny. Then we also have this other version, which looks the same on the outside, but oh boy, she is a new gal inside, with the 3.6 V6 and a 6 speed paddle shiften' selector and that good stuff. Now they are going with an i4 engine in the Aura and a hybrid, with not all that much different performance to further confuse the buying public. NO- the Aura should have be top line only. Let the New Malibu to the rest. But then again, we have the first ever G6, Aura and Malibu, along with the pricey Saab, all sharing this platform. Ah it won't stop there, perhaps a Caddy is on the way, or what the heck, a Buick or GMC truck (just kidding) in this platform. To me, the New Malibu is a slight exterior change to Aura, with a cooler looking interior, while the G6 is less interesting looking of the three sedans. Wouldn't mind a Saab 9-3 for say $25K And in the end, all will be good to good enough, but nothing to write home about. Yeah, I know, award winning and all that jazz. Good car, leave it at that. The Impala and Camaro are the next shots they need to take to score the big one.
L

neteng101

The Aura does look good, but I have to wonder what GW was thinking with that VW looking rear end on the new Malibu. Overall the new Malibu looks rather bland from the front, awful from the rear and just ok from a side angle. The Aura is certainly leagues better in the styling department. They should have stuck with the concept styling seen previously, the final incarnation is quite a disappointment.

Interior of the Malibu, now that looks a lot better than its outer skin, and more stylish than the Aura.

m1miata

Malibu Classic is not too far off from what the New Malibu is going to be style wise. What they needed in that first, not so bad looking effort, is now going to be available. Better handling and drive-train arrives on the scene. I hope the emergency brake is a hand brake type, and that the car eeks out another inch or two on the inside space -- more narrow center of dash, if not anything else. Hope it has gas props for the hood. Seems like it could be a decent car -- good car. Should play well against the competition in the mid-sized FWD car class. Now Toyota has the time to change the interior on the 2008, so one wonders if an improvement is in the works? What about the transmissions on the Camry? If they are A-OK for 2008, yet another problem for New Malibu efforts for the old knock-out punch. Will the new super-sized Accord be a hit. American seem to like super-sized everything. New look could be a hit too. With so many good cars in the competition, from Aura to Milans who knows the ultimate fate of yet another good car? Is the Altima going to remain fairly hot? What happened to Sonata? Looks like it is half fleet sales. Oh wait, this means soon there will be very-very inexpensive cars in this class flooding the market. Folks, this is one tough game!
ya wonder?
Loren

benderofbows

"I can't believe my '07 Accord lacks any kind of decent iPod interface. Criminy even Volvo can do it."

H and A Accessories (www.handa-accessories.com) has a kit for $149.99. I'm thinking about having this installed in my '07 LX.

lilengineerboy

"I can't believe my '07 Accord lacks any kind of decent iPod interface. Criminy even Volvo can do it."

H and A Accessories (www.handa-accessories.com) has a kit for $149.99. I'm thinking about having this installed in my '07 LX.

Read the reviews for it first. It is basically a rebadged "USASpec" CD changer emulator thing. I would probably go aftermarket first. Like I said, I can't believe the Accord lacks any kind of decent iPod interface. I also think the lack of RDS/stationID/songID info on that relatively large display is dumb too.

falmouth

I am in total agreement. How difficult would it have been for Honda to add a MP3 interface ? Also info on the dispaly would have been nice. They should have done this with the minor 06 changes. The car would have sold better in my opinion. I just recently bought an EX I4 sedan 5sp because of the fantastic deals available. I had never seen such deals on an Accord.

lilengineerboy

I am in total agreement. How difficult would it have been for Honda to add a MP3 interface ? Also info on the dispaly would have been nice. They should have done this with the minor 06 changes. The car would have sold better in my opinion. I just recently bought an EX I4 sedan 5sp because of the fantastic deals available. I had never seen such deals on an Accord.

Yeah, it ended up being an offer I couldn't refuse too, same model as you. I figure I can drive it for a few years, then get something sportier and get most of my money back out.

falmouth

Many people love their cars and don't change brands. It can be seen in the opinions of many here. What percentage of car buyers when buying a new car switch brands ? And what were the former brands they are switching from ? Does this have a place in the discussion when we are talking about how well a new car will do ? Can the domestics recover market share when Honda and Toyota are so well liked by their owners ? I do think that some problems with transmissions by the two have opened the door slightly.

mz3s

I do think that some problems with transmissions by the two have opened the door slightly.

Yep, you're right about that. I bought a Ford first (02 Focus, 88k stress free miles) then Mazda (05 3s, 55k miles 4 front axles harsh vibrations, bad brakes...........)

I would actually consider an Accord but I'm afraid of their trannys and won't buy one. Toyotas are just plain boring. I want a bigger car this time and I thinking Fusion (3.5 pls) or Aura XR. I am def buying American again based on my past experience and the fact that our economy is falling badly. I'll help. I can't imagine (and don't want to) what would happen if the now big 3 went out of business. It trickles down to ALL industries. What a mess.

targettuning

Off topic due to size of vehicle but relevent due to the fact it IS a Honda. I originally had a small right rear suspension clunk (from new @ 5 miles showing) that only got worse until last July with about 4K miles showing it was terrible. Upon returning to the selling dealer and after a short test ride with a tech. it was evident to both of us (actually it was evident to me for a long time) I had some sort of problem. They took the car in, placed it on a lift, and five minutes later I was informed that not only was the right rear shock completely dry..all the fluid had leaked out BUT the left side was leaking too. So, both rear shocks were replaced at 4K miles. As I type there is a front driver seat, bottom cushion cover (the seat fabric) awaiting me to make an appointment to be replaced due to the roughly 4 inch X 3 inch patch where the fabric pattern has all but worn off. The fabric has not worn through but the "squiggly lines" that are the pattern on the EX sedan we own are mostly gone within that area. This is addition to several Honda "service bulletins" I have had to avail myself of to correct odd noises. There is one (#06-060)that they (Honda) won't apply because the noise "cannot be duplicated" even though on the drive home from that attempt I heard it several times..bad for me!! Car currently has 10,050 miles showing. This was our first Honda product so you see I am not entirely in agreement with the notion from you or anyone else posting here that Honda is "God's own ride"

lilengineerboy

Many people love their cars and don't change brands. It can be seen in the opinions of many here. What percentage of car buyers when buying a new car switch brands ? And what were the former brands they are switching from ? Does this have a place in the discussion when we are talking about how well a new car will do ? Can the domestics recover market share when Honda and Toyota are so well liked by their owners ? I do think that some problems with transmissions by the two have opened the door slightly.

The overwhelming majority of my vehicles have been hand-me downs. I really don't consider myself to be a brand loyalist at all, I just look at what meets my needs at the time and what is available.
I went from a Mitsubishi Galant (great car - they made its replacement much less appealing and no manual trans) to a Ford Contour (also a great car, no replacement from Ford) to a Subaru Legacy (so far a great car also, and a manual trans AWD wagon). The hand-me-downs were 90s Hondas, which incidentally, got replaced by another Honda.
I wish I had been able to get a Subaru Impreza WRX or a MazdaSpeed6 (or even a Mazda6 Touring)instead of the Accord EX this last go around, but they were too expensive or unavailable.

dilettante

1.) 2 Different Accord 4-cylinder engines; how will the market respond, if at all?

I guess it depends on how different the performance really is. It appears that both should have enough power.

2.) Based on what we know, will Chevrolet's new Malibu be a rental queen like the Impala, or a real-deal competitor, like the Fusion?

Although the back-end looks strange, the interior seems to be nice. Believe it or not, the Malibu competitive when it came out in the late '90s. Even my '02 Malibu was competitive in terms of price/standard features. I'm not a fan of the handling or styling in the current Malibus, but the steering in my '02 is excellent, the standard V6 is powerful enough, and the seats are great. Hopefully the new Malibu will improve on the original.

3.) Your list of the top three MUST-HAVE features in your new midsize car, besides the obvious A/C, Stereo, PW/PL etc... and what model fits your needs best? Which ones needs work?

When I bought my Malibu I wanted a V6, Cruise, and a CD player. When my girlfriend bought her '06 Altima we were looking for a powerful 4-cylinder, ABS, and side airbags (I can't believe how many cars, including the Altima, still did not come with standard ABS). When I buy my next car, I will be looking for a powerful 4-cylinder, safety features (ABS and side airbags), and an MP3 player interface. Hopefully most cars will include these things in three or four years.

dilettante

Many people love their cars and don't change brands. It can be seen in the opinions of many here. What percentage of car buyers when buying a new car switch brands ? And what were the former brands they are switching from ? Does this have a place in the discussion when we are talking about how well a new car will do ? Can the domestics recover market share when Honda and Toyota are so well liked by their owners ? I do think that some problems with transmissions by the two have opened the door slightly.

Sure, I think domestics can gain market share, but it is going to take a dedication to going above and beyond the standards set by Honda and Toyota. While not a domestic, Hyundai has offered an excellent warranty and more standard safety features at good prices. Although she didn't end up buying one, those are the features that drew us to the Hyundai lot when my girlfriend was looking for a new car. I don't think that having good looks alone will be enough to have a real impact.

lilengineerboy

Sure, I think domestics can gain market share, but it is going to take a dedication to going above and beyond the standards set by Honda and Toyota. While not a domestic, Hyundai has offered an excellent warranty and more standard safety features at good prices.

If you think about the humble beginnings (Hyundai Excel, Toyta Toyopet, etc) of many companies, it seems like it takes a few years to establish yourself as a player in the marketplace, and then a few more to win buyer confidence. It will be interesting to see if those OEMs that lost buyer confidence can recapture it within a decade.

zzzoom6

I used to be very brand loyal if I had a good experience with a product, but now, I've had good experiences with many different brands, so I don't care as much as what characteristics a product has and it's relative value.

I do pay attention to what Consumer Reports and Jd Power says in their reliability ratings to get an idea of how things hold up. And both of these sources of info indicate that the differences in the amount of problems a car in this class have over a five year period is very minor (usually less than 1 extra problem over a 5 year period, which to me is not as significant as say hauling capability or better handling). Given that there are two different sources that have come up with similar reliability ratings, I find that I can now choose what I like rather than feeling any sense of loyalty to a brand. I mean, why should I be loyal to someone I give money to... I'll let companies who innovate and engineer good features for a fair price get the money I earn. Who that company will be is up to them... let them fight for my dollars by constantly improving their product!

backy

Since I've changed brands twelve times when buying/leasing cars, I guess I'd have to say I am brand agnostic.

When I was young, I guess you could say I was a Toyota fan; 3 of the first 4 cars I bought myself were Toyotas. But then I learned there's a big world out there with many good choices.

jeffyscott

I wish I had been able to get a Subaru Impreza WRX or a MazdaSpeed6 (or even a Mazda6 Touring)instead of the Accord EX this last go around, but they were too expensive or unavailable.

Hard to believe that you found a comparable Mazda6 or even Speed6 to be too expensive compared to an Accord :confuse: . Is this based on actual selling prices?

From what I have read over the last couple years, the Speed6 was selling at $7-8K discounts from MSRP most of the time and Mazda6 probably available at anywhere from $4-6K off MSRP.

Anyway since Accords do not depreciate, should be easy enough to correct your error and trade that Accord for a 6 or speed6 .

zzzoom6

Maybe it's just a local thing, but I'm seeing many more Mazda6's around lately compared to when I got my car almost a couple years ago. And there have been a couple different people posting on this forum mentioning that the Mazda6 that was configured the way they wanted was in short supply and would have to be ordered from the factory so maybe the upper trim models with a 5 speed are getting snatched up. If that's the case, I'd think the deals that some were able to get may be harder to find.

andres3

I was asking about the new one with the 3.6L engine, much more stylish interior, etc... But instead it went back to bashing the domestic *sigh

It wasn't bashing at all, just reporting the facts on my previous experiences with the Malibu/Classic. Is it possible for a player that has averaged 5 homeruns a year for the past 10 years to suddenly have a year where they hit 45?? Sure (if they take steroids). But, not likely.

pat

See, there's the problem. There is nothing in this class that is a totally bad choice across the board for everyone. You need to let others express positive opinions about vehicles which don't interest you without responding with sarcasm. The vehicle does not appeal to you? Okay, that's fine - and neither does your vehicle appeal some others. That's the way the cookie bounces and it's no skin off your teeth... or something like that.

It's all about personal preference and it's all good. The sarcasm and derision need to be left out of this because responses of that nature do nothing but derail the conversation. That would make this discussion much more helpful to shoppers which - I do believe - is the overall purpose of the Forums.

andres3

Understood, but I was just trying to reiterate in an entertaining way that people shouldn't be so quick to assume a car can improve by "lightyears" all of a sudden, from one year to the next.

Cars can improve, a lot, especially with major redesigns, but to assume all the sins of the past will be eradicated "all of a sudden" seems to me, wishful thinking.

pat

That's good - but let's drop the sarcasm and the under-the-heel-grinding. Those kinds of things are what continually knock this discussion off track.

I'm not just talking to you.

altest

I enjoyed this forum. And, I want a similar high-energy discussion on cute-utes. I have already created a new forum.

thegraduate

A car CAN jump lightyears all of a sudden; check out Hyundai and most of its lineup. Check out Ford's Fusion compared to the aged Taurus. Saturn Aura vs. Saturn L-Series sedan.

I tend to believe its not wishful thinking; its what we should expect. If a company does not fulfill on its duties, shame on them. But damning a company for a what it was a decade ago isn't quite fair in my opinion.

And, I'm not sure if I've been a major part of the problem or not as far as getting this discussion derailed; I've been trying to keep things on track with new subjects, etc...

If I've caused I problem, I apologize to the host, the posters, and the silent readers of this forum.

m1miata

Saturn Aura represents a new direction for Saturn. It is in total a new car for Saturn, and the little plastic unique cars are replaced by GM basic design, or the Epsilon for everyone car. It is a good sound car. Why not just call it an Opel, who knows. The more interesting stuff come to us in a couple years as the Impala and Camaro. How good are the Aussie cars for reliability and performance -- anyone here know. It is basically the new stuff. The New CTS to me personally is a wait and see. I am not wanting any of these cars to grow, be a CTS or Accord, but that is life. We are all super-sized now from McD's to autos.
I personally see the Epsilon, in its many flavors as competing with the rest, and winning some hearts along the way. The Aura XR is entertaining to drive. I do not expect it change the game completly however, as it is doubtful to have the same resale value as brand X from Japan, and the reliability being equal or better is a question mark. Don't know what to say other than I guess one could sort of judge reliablity performance by that of G6, as it has been released earlier and has some miles of actual use now. So when the new Consumer Report comes out, we have a couple or so years to go by. As for giant leaps, the RWD from Down Under still look to have the most impact. If they do not get the Impala and all those Pontiacs right, all hell may break in the press. I understand many are impressed with the Sky and Solstice. Well, they do look impressive.
Wish more cars had good looks these day.
hot-humid in california, blahhh, we aren't use to this L

zzzoom6

I am in total agreement. How difficult would it have been for Honda to add a MP3 interface ?
Mazda needs to be slapped around for this also. Perhaps the 07 might have an interface, but I know my 05 doesn't. I went aftermarket and got a tape deck emulator and now I've got two mp3 plug ins that sound really good (much better than those radio station ones). Since I did the install, it cost like $40, and took about an hour to do, so no big deal, but since Mazda's are generally marketed to youthful people it is amazing that they haven't added this feature earlier.

zzzoom6

Nissan Altima And Saturn Aura: Canyon Road Cage Match

Pretty interesting stuff that buyer's would like to know. Considering how much emphasis Nissan put into improving their suspension, it's strange that they did not put very good side bolsters on their seats.

jd10013

A car CAN jump lightyears all of a sudden

I agree. One thing honda and toyota did thats undisputable was to raise the bar. Everybody else was forced to catch up fast to stay competive. and because of honda and toyotas efforts, we all have better cars.

pat

You haven't. I appreciate your efforts to keep this conversation on track.

neteng101

It all washes over time... a 2006 Fusion SEL V6 based on Edmunds TMV is $17,080 while a 2006 Accord EX (4-cylinder) is worth $20,027. In a few years, the Fusion will be worth next to nil while the Accord will still have some value when it comes time to trade-in/sell it. From a pure value standpoint at purchase time, I don't think anyone can beat the Sonata.

m6user

Although these cars did not change overnight, they did change and for the better. I remember when Hondas were first brought to the US. They were really pieces of junk and you could see the rust bubbling under the paint after three or four years. The sheet metal was about as thin as a tuna can. I had a 1973 Toyota Corona which I kept for only one year as it was impossible to get the idle right. It had to be set so high to keep running with the air conditioner on that when you turned off the air conditioner it would be close to 2,000 rpms. Turn the air on and it would drop down to about 800 rpms. Several dealers could not fix so I got rid of it and took a beating. Now look at where Honda and Toyota are. Granted, it certainly wasn't a quick turnaround but slow but sure. I personally think that the domestics can come around if enough effort is put forth and consumers keep open minds and don't mindlessly follow the leaders.

m1miata

Actually the best bet is the Accord SE V6 for price in / out.
Sonata is a deal, if you keep it for ten years.
L

jeffyscott

In a few years, the Fusion will be worth next to nil while the Accord will still have some value when it comes time to trade-in/sell it.

I think you exxagerate with the "next to nil..." comment. My guess would be that the difference in value is likely to be the same or less than the initial difference of $3000. When the Accord is worth $3000, the Fusion will likely still be worth more than $0.

thegraduate

No problem; I know I tend to get carried away sometimes, so I was just making sure!

m6user

Take a 3000 difference in initial price and add 6.5% sales tax which would total $3195 now compound at 6% interest over 5 years which would total $4275. When you add that number into the depreciation difference the Fusion would probably hold up rather well.

csandste

I'm picking this thread up after a couple of days absence, so it might have been addressed.

I have an 05 Malibu Maxx with the 3.5 ohv engine. I think the technology was far from obsolete (obsolescent, maybe) and I like the engine a lot. Gets as good mileage as my 4 cylinder Optima-- 33 mpg on the road-- 22 around town, lighter and lower than an ohc engine, 7000 mile indicated oil changes on the OLM, unlike Japanese (and Korean) cars it's real world mileage approached the old epa figures (most GM cars didn't have the drops from 07-08 that Japanese cars did). True, it's noisier and thrashier at higher rpms but low end torque is good and I don't get that far up on the tach anyway.

I think GM finally got tired of the tirades of the likes of Car and Driver constantly putting them down. RIP-- OHV engines, you will be missed.

The last gen 'Bu sedan was unremarkable, but I didn't mind the back clip on the Maxx (won't defend the front). I'm sure that the new Malibu is better in every way but I'll miss the hatch and find the new one looks disconcertingly like a Mitsubishi Diamante from the rear.

lilengineerboy

I think GM finally got tired of the tirades of the likes of Car and Driver constantly putting them down. RIP-- OHV engines, you will be missed.

I think the OHV engines are the ones GM is using for development of electronically actuated valves w/o a cam in the motor at all. That would pretty much be the ultimate VTEC.

luvmbooty

I think engines are the same.

Both have 11.7" front ventilated disc and 11.5" rear disc brakes.

There's only a 82 lbs difference.

Very little difference in MPGs.

Are these models twins or share the same platform?

m1miata

What makes you think, or state here, that Japan and Korean cars do not match or exceed the EPA fuel figures? I have no problem doing so with a new V6 Accord. I have gotten up to 29 MPG and will likely do better once broken in. Let's see a 200-300K mile engine, the break in must be at 50K And I do not drive conservative to get the MPG, this is brisk off the line and good speed on the freeways. At 60 or 70, the SOHC is good to go faster with ease, and not throw a fit in doing so. Just smooth and sweet sounds coming under the full on acceleration period. And yes, the 3.5 OHV is perhaps the best V6 of its type I have seen. I am impressed with it in some ways. Good torque. Once up to speed, and in need of more speed, as in passing at higher speeds, I'll still take the Honda engine. Or the DOHC 3.6 of GM, which is great. Something about the way the Hondas like to rev. Well, this is my first Honda car, but I owned a Honda 70SL and 100 bike some time ago. OK, a long time a go, gosh I feel so old.

I could live with the 3.5 OHV engine in a car. I tested a G6 and did not like the electric assist steering. The engine was the 3.5 mated to a four speed. Test drove the Aura XE with that combo. It is OK. The XR is so much better though performance wise. For sound, I like the OHC engines in the V6, but I guess I never got a catback muffler by Borla on any of my OHV V6 engined cars from GM I owned. They all just made that blurping funny sound on launch time.
L

backy

I read today in the C/D 2008 preview that the Aura will come with an I4 for 2008. I think that's good news, as not everyone who is looking for a mid-sized sedan wants/needs a V6 (I'm one of them). It should also drop the Aura below $20k and make it price-competitive (at least MSRP) with the Korean 4-bangers.

Speaking of which, I noticed today that with current incentives and a discount down to invoice, a very well equipped Optima LX can be had for around $15k. So the new Accord looks really good... but is it $7000+ better than an Optima?

m1miata

Well I bought an '07 Accord SE V6 for around $22.5K, some months ago. I assume it can be had for less right now. Have no idea what the Accord i4 then would be priced at, but let's guess it to be currently around $19K for the SE i4, or less? Considering you are getting a Honda compared to a Kia and the resale should be about double that of the Kia in five to ten years time, I would say the bargain goes to the Honda. If you keep the Optima until death (of the car) or ten years time, the Kia is a pretty good deal indeed. That said, in ten years I could still sell a Honda for some good money.
just trying to be helpful,
L

m1miata

Aura i4? I would wait an get the brother car, the New Malibu = better looking interior, and with some luck and bit more room inside. The Saturn Aura XR is a kicker drive of the bunch. If going base, plastic hub cap car, just go with Malibu or G6, IMHO.
L

backy

When I said "the new Accord", I meant the 2008 Accord. Good luck getting any incentives or even much of a discount on the new Accord for awhile. That means the base LX will start at, by published reports, about $21k. Add automatic, 17" alloys, and upgraded interior trim (ala Optima LX with the appearance package and ESC package) and you are probably looking at $23k at least for an Accord I4 equipped like that. So I was probably being optimistic when I said a $7000 difference--probably will be more than that, at least for the next few months while all the "gotta-have-a-2008-Accord" buyers are satiated.

Resale of an Accord double that of an Optima in 10 years' time? Maybe. As in, something like $2500 vs. $5000. You'd still be up several thousand bucks with the Optima. And I didn't even include the extra taxes or interest charges on the Accord. No, the bargain clearly goes to the Optima. But if you gotta have that extra power, or spiffy interior (although the Optima's interior is pretty darn nice too), or all the Hondaness (don't know what else to call it), or extras like factory nav, and you don't have a better way to use the extra bucks, go for it!

m1miata

Don't know about the Optima, but the Sonata, IMHO, is a good car, but not up there at the top. The steering, handling, suspension, engine, interior, and such are 85% to perhaps 90% there, but not quite the same as the top competitors. The car doesn't handle and drive like a Honda V6. Anyway, just go get an '07 SE V6 for around $22K, or the i4 for much less money. I would say the i4 16" wheels are more than large enough for the i4 engine version. Why would you want the 17"? And the interior of the SE i4 is very nice. Then there is the Altima. I would wait for Camry until 2008 or 2009 to be sure bugs are not remaining. If looking at price only, the Korean cars do have price, with good performance, if perhaps not top line just yet. It all sorta equals out, and depends on what ya want from a car. The Aura XR is pretty cool, but the price is a bit much, if looking for the value overall type of thing, as in the price in/out. Just a sweet engine and tranny in the thing.

Isn't Optima the name of Radio Shack audio upper line products, after the Realistic name ( maybe it replaced it? )

You could nickname the car Opie ! Or is that an Opel car?

L

m1miata

You never pay sticker on cars, be it Accord 2008 or Optima 2008.
enjoy the drive,
L