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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    edited May 2013
    Regarding the CVT in the Altima. I rented an 2012 Altima(not rated as high mpg as the 2013) to make a trip from Chicago to Texas and back last year. It got about 34mpg with 97% expressway driving between 70-75mph. While I didn't really care all that much for the CVT, I think it was more of being "used to" a standard auto tran versus the CVT which performed fine. I did appreciate the low RPM at cruising from a noise/vibration viewpoint. I drive fairly aggressively but very rarely race others at stoplights etc and am usually pretty soft on the pedal unless I'm in a hurry. The only time I had an issue with this 5000k rpm thing was when I really floored it once. It actually shocked me in thinking that I had it in neutral or something as I immediately let off on the gas. The car really hadn't even took off yet to any degree before I let off on it.

    So my point is, I think if you drive it easy or even with a slightly heavy foot you don't experience this. But if you floor it a lot it would be something that you would really have to get used to and I'm sure would affect MPG greatly.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Interesting. Good to get some first hand input. I had gotten the impression that it has been too easy to see the high revs when just being a bit aggressive in day to day city life. My impression was derived both by everything I have read in the past year or so, and the 09 I demo'd (and a 2010 Outback). I have a feeling that with my driving style it would probably get pretty good mpg, because I was impressed with how it would work with you at managing a cruise with very low revs, but only on very level ground and only if you were content to be quite passive with it. If you weren't, it was quick to spool up and you could see the onboard computer showing a lot of fuel used during those transitions.

    I had the same opinion with a new 2011 Outback Wagon (with CVT) only it sniffed out grades even easier :( doubt due in part to the extra parasitic drivetrain losses that AWD imposes. Plus I drove it in the winter vs a summer drive in the Altima.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    "The Altima is a great car and we had a hard time choosing between it and the Accord. Oddly, though the Altima is lighter, it felt like the bigger, less agile car when we drove it."

    Car & Driver said the same thing. They said the Accord felt like it was made of "Lightweightium", and that was part of the Honda magic. It feels bigger inside and smaller outside. (Like the TARDIS) Lol.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    Thanks to TSX69 at for these numbers:

    Accord 33,538
    Camry 31,710
    Fusion 26,722
    Altima 21,991
    Malibu 21,734
    Sonata 16,077
    Optima 14,678
    Legacy 3,286
    6 2,933
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    edited May 2013
    For the second month in a row the Camry was #2. Is the mediocre Camry finally crumbling? Fusion has fallen a bit because the Ford factory in Mexico where they are made can't put em together fast enough. The Altima's plunge seems puzzling (it was #1 just last month!), but might possibly be because Nissan had a huge sale to rental car companies in March?? Sonata and Optima seem solid, and the Malibu is also holding its own. In terms of the race for #1, it does seem possible that either the Altima or Accord might get the crown. I'll believe it when I see it, however, as I think Toyota is going to put cash on the hood in a huge way any day now. The Camry may be so-so as a car, but for many people if it costs $2000+ less than most of its competitors it's a good enough to buy like hotcakes. Still, the race is on, and Camry is facing real competition for the first time in years.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    So, Passat didn't even make the top 9??

    Sonata + Optima almost matching Camry in sales... whodathunkit.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    Maybe VW reported their numbers late? The Passat is in their somewhere, probably at about the 10,000 a month level.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    Here are some pics of the 2014 Sonata. Hyundai really did good work on the new interior...though it's a bit too grey. The exterior looks great too, especially the new front end. The car is shown in top level trim, complete with 20" rims, LED headlights and fogs, dual exhaust, and blackout roof with an electro-chromatic self darkening sunroof.

    I can only wonder how the bread and butter GLS will look as the "$199 a month" volume sales leader.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    Not much change at all to my eyes, but maybe I'm missing something and/or the pix are too small.

    The 2013 Accord seems like a radical redo compared to this warmed over "new" model.

    I imagine it will sell fine, but....Surely that can't be an all-new car.

    Maybe it's just a refresh of the current model?
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited May 2013
    Sorry, thought I put refresh in there. It is not an all new car.

    The fog light design is new, the interior has upgraded materials, the taillights are now wrap-around LED's, and dual exhaust is added to more models, rims are new design. Subtle changes, but changes indeed.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    I agree. The photo car is the same color as my wife's 2013 Sonata, and without looking VERY carefully I can't see any change from the 2013 model (except her car is a GLS, so there's slight exterior diffs just because of that). And the interior of the photo car is a bit different, but again it's a loaded model so I can't tell how it will translate to the GLS.

    I expected more of an upgrade for a mid-gen refresh. But frankly, the styling wasn't any issue for me. It would be great if in the mid-gen refresh Hyundai addresses all the little glitches that some folks have had with their Sonatas, e.g. steering and smartphone pairing. Maybe add a power passenger seat (and maybe a standard manual height adjuster) option too, as some folks think the passenger seat is too low. My wife's Sonata has been flawless, but it's a tough market so some improvements are needed to keep pace.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited May 2013
    Hey backy....I see you have 10+ inches of snow up there. How does your wife's Sonata GLS hold up with all the harsh weather in Minnesota? I mean with all the salt and scraping and corrosion. My folks were Buffalo natives and I was shocked at how bad cars rust there. Sorry you are still getting snow here in May!!!
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    On my Optima:

    1) Steering wheel controls. I can do almost everything without my hand leaving the wheel, or taking my eyes off the road.

    2) Comfortable seats

    3) Smooth powertrain operation.

    Least favorite:

    1) Passenger seat too Low and has no height adjustment
    2) Hard to see out of. Needs rear view camera as standard equipment.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Too early to tell how the Sonata will hold up through many winters. Really appreciated the seat heaters this winter, though! But my 10-year-old Elantra has been through 10 Minnesota winters and has held up great, just a dime-sized paint bubbling near the rear license plate. The important thing is to get the salt off the car. So I use the card I got from the dealer which provides $5 "works" touch-free washes at a place a mile away. And I can use that on all my cars. :)

    Fortunately, we didn't get the 10+ inches of snow some other parts of Minnesota got yesterday, everything we got melted on contact.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited May 2013
    My neighbor has a 2003 Elanra GLS. With 170k it has needed only tires, brake rotors & pads, and oil. A good little car.

    When you said your Elanra has been holding up well after 10 Minnesota winters, I looked up the Edmunds review, and found ANOTHER HYUNDAI "MISSTATEMENT". It seems that they rated the 2.0 liter engine at 140 hp, when it really only makes 135.

    Not good. How do I trust a car's integrity, MPG, and Specs when the manufacturer is caught lying about them?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    OMG, that was eons ago. It affected my 2001 Elantra (not my 2004, which I still own and is rated at 138 hp), and I got a prepaid debit card from Hyundai as compensation. Frankly, it was not an issue for me, as I didn't buy the car thinking, "If it doesn't have 140 hp, forget it!" At the time, even 135 hp was more than most everything else in the class.

    Other automakers have misstated hp ratings also. Might want to keep track on a spreadsheet or something like that so you know which cars not to buy in the future. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    How do I trust a car's integrity, MPG, and Specs when the manufacturer is caught lying about them?

    I guess Honda and Toyota aren't to be trusted either, if you use that logic.

    My aunt bought a 2005 Odyssey with 255hp, only to have it re-rated at 244. The 2005 Avalon with 280hp? How about 268.
    That 3.3L 225hp Camry SE? It was re-rated at 210.
    The $50,000 Acura RL had 300hp, right? No, re-rated to 290.

    The SAE changed guidelines for rating in 2005. It affected most every manufacturer.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited May 2013
    I meant no offense. I drive a Hyundai/Kia product too. I just want to get what I paid for, and I am aware that other manufacturers fudge the numbers as well, and not just car companies. The Hyundai MPG scandal left a lot of owners with a bad taste in their mouth, including me...makes you wonder how many other features and specs are overstated.

    I tried to get over 30 mpg highway yesterday, ECO button on, A/C off, and I mustered up all the patience of a Buddhist monk and kept the speed at 60 mph.

    What did I get? 26.9 MPG. No traffic, no stops, no passing, no sudden throttle inputs, and I coasted in neutral on all downhill grades.
    I am going on vacation next month with an 850 mile round trip, so maybe longer, flatter roads will make a difference.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,426
    Wow 26.9 stinks for 60 mpg steady speed (my Sienna minivan does better). Should be higher than that. Consumer Reports got it at 39 mpg going a steady 65 mph. It is behind the Accord, Camry, Altima and Mazda6 (which get between 40 and 44 on the same test), but it should still get mid to upper 30's with no problem.

    Was there a headwind? Tires inflated properly? Was the road surface coarse? Was the road wet? Looks like you were in a hilly area - try it on level ground. You should be over 40 mpg at 60 mph.

    If nothing works, I would try renting a Sonata and seeing how that one does. If it does much better you will know there is something wrong with your car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Do you have the 2.4L or the turbo? Recently on a 180 mile round trip with some city driving, but most at 65-67 mph on cruise, I got 36.5 mpg with my wife's 2013 Sonata. And got 38.5 mpg on the all-highway trip to the destination. That was at mid-30s for temps, so not ideal weather but not too bad.

    I have no idea how you could get only 26.9 mpg on a new Optima at a steady 60 mph with no stops. My only conclusion is there must be something terribly wrong with your car. I can get mid-20s mpg IN TOWN, in winter, on my wife's Sonata.
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