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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • So what do you call the Chevy SS? It's not a fullsize sedan, and it's not a compact sedan, so it must be a midsize sedan. Call it a muscle car or not, four doors + no hatchback = sedan.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    As long as you're pulling out comparos and quoting MT, did you see which car was MT's choice for full-sized sedan? The Cadenza.

    I agree few people will cross-shop the Impala and Mazda6. But we weren't talking cross-shopping. I know I'd never consider an Impala just because it's a bigger car than I need. I'd rather have a mid-sized car, one that can give me 40 mpg highway in real world driving like the Mazda6, or even the Sonata--40.0 mpg on a 150 mile trip yesterday. :-)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    It's not a mid-sized family sedan. It's a muscle car, for people who have the need for that sort of thing.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    It is a midsize sedan with a powerful engine option...little different in concept from an E Class AMG or M5, but cheaper. Doesn't belong in mid-size family sedan comparison.
  • ahightowerahightower DFWPosts: 461
    "at a Tundra pickup media event..."

    Speaking of struggling sales... Hell, I'd rather talk about Camry, too. The spokesman who has to go to the Tundra event must have lost the office lottery. Or they're hazing the new guy.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    That best, IMHO, describes the Accord's styling.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    I just can't get with the front end on the Cadenza, and I like the way the Impala looks. Since you guys brought up the Impala and the Cadenza, I chimed in. To me, Impala is a pretty car. That's all. Back to mid size!
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    edited July 2013
    "That best, IMHO, describes the Accord's styling."

    But best-in-class safety, acceleration (6MT or V-6), visibility, and standard features. Also best-in-class V-6 mpg.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    One thing that I've noticed owning a Ford is that the mpg that the computer displays seems to be a consistent 10% lower than what you actually get if you go by miles and amount filled. (same pump, same station, exact same filling technique every time)

    But MPG is a minor, minor thing. You couldn't get me to drive something like the Honda Insight. It's just plain flimsy and tacky inside. And while the Mazda 6 might be a slight bit better mechanically, it feels like cars did a decade ago. Basically like a giant version of the 3, which is such a disappointment of plastic and cheap. Rental car companies might love that, but no amount of cheap leather will fix sad designs like that.

    The auto magazines might like the Mazda. But actually drive the Fusion or something like a Passat and it's clear that Mazda needs to step up its game..
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Everyone has their own taste. The Mazda6 feels more refined than the Fusion to some of us, as well as to many auto review writers. The Fusion may be slightly more quiet at some speeds, but the drivetrain of the Mazda works better.

    Latest from Autoguide:
    http://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/2013-ford-fusion-vs-2014-mazda6-2611.ht- ml

    Here's the YouTube version:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5neeuak5Aw
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    Hyundai is ahead of the curve since they already dropped their V6 engine.
    New CAFE regs will force Toyota and Honda to do the same in the near future.
    I mean, even Buick is featuring a 4 cyl.

    Besides, a V6 really drives up the cost since it always forces buyers into other features they may not want.

    The non-hybrid 4's available in the Fusion really suck but they have hit a home run with the new Fusion hybrid.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Hyundai is ahead of the curve since they already dropped their V6 engine.
    New CAFE regs will force Toyota and Honda to do the same in the near future.

    Besides, a V6 really drives up the cost since it always forces buyers into other features they may not want.


    I have to disagree. Turbo engines come at a premium, and are only offered in higher-level trim packages. Honda is egregious in offering the V6 in only EX-L trim, but power and fuel economy numbers are very competitive with the turbo motors.

    Camry V6: 21/31 268 hp ($5,825 premium over base price)
    Accord V6: 21/34 278 hp ($8,390 premium over base price)
    Sonata 2.0: 22/34 274 hp ($3,900 premium over base price)
    Fusion 2.0: 22/33 240 hp ($4,735 premium over base price)
    Malibu 2.0: 21/30 259 hp ($5,415 premium over base price)


    So far, it appears in the real world that the larger displacement V6s are returning better economy than the turbocharged four-cylinder engines. Fueleconomy.gov reports as well as independent car-mags are proving this.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    I wasn't referencing the turbos.
    You do know the majority of Sonatas sold are normally aspirated I4s don't you?

    Their upgraded 2013 Sonata hybrid (with a 6 spd. transmission instead of a droning CVT found on most hybrids) is also selling well.

    And that $8400 over base is so not worth the $$$, IMO.

    Fuel economy for the V6s will never approach 40 mpg as selected 4 cyls. are already doing.

    By 2020 there won't be that many sixes offered by any car makers - note what BMW has been doing - unless the feds back off their mpg standards.
    Handwriting is on-the-wall
    Just a matter of time.
    3 cyl. engines are being explored and already offered in Europe.
    Audi will soon offer a diesel hybrid.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,426
    Actually Cr tested the Accord V-6 at 39 mpg highway going a steady 65 mph. Not too shabby - Sonata I4 was Also 39 mpg on the same test. But yes, still below "select" I4's like the Altima at 44 mpg Mada6 at 43 mpg and Accord I4 at 42 mpg.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    edited July 2013
    EXL=$27,995 msrp
    EXLV6=30,070

    The difference there is only about 2k. That's the cost of the V-6 engine on the Accord then, c.$2000.

    But I do realize you have get up to the EXL to be able to get the V-6.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    Real world numbers . . .

    Just checked CR online which listed 30 mpg overall for the I4 and 26 for the V6 in their road tests.

    28 2013 Accords V6s on Fuely; highest was 30.5 and the lowest was 21.3.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I wasn't referencing the turbos.
    You do know the majority of Sonatas sold are normally aspirated I4s don't you?


    Yes. The majority of these cars are sold with their base engine (Accord 2.4L, Camry 2.5L, Altima 2.5L, etc), not the upper level, but you were discussing the upper level engines.

    You were talking V6s, so I brought up the competition - the 2.0L turbos offered by Chevy, Ford, and Hyundai/Kia.

    And, keep in mind I HAVE a Hyundai with an automatic, and have road tripped (1500+ mi apiece) in two Hyundais in the last 12 months. The CVT in the Accord is miles ahead of the auto in either Hyundai I've driven.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    edited July 2013
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/04/top-picks-2013/index.htm

    Looking for a new car? Start here. Our Top Picks are as close as it gets to “no-brainers” in the auto market. They’re impressive all-around vehicles, chosen from more than 280 we’ve recently tested, that have excelled in our testing, are reliable, and have performed well in independent crash tests....

    What it takes

    Top Picks must meet our criteria in three areas:

    Road test. Each must rank at or near the top of its category in overall test score.
    Reliability. Each must have earned an average or better predicted-reliability Rating, based on the problems Consumer Reports subscribers reported on 1.2 million vehicles in our latest Annual Auto Survey.
    Safety. Top Picks must perform adequately if tested in crash or rollover tests conducted by the government or insurance industry....

    Midsized sedan

    Honda Accord
    The Accord was redesigned for 2013, and Honda nailed it, sending this sedan to the top of its class. This new model is roomy, nice to drive, well equipped, and very fuel efficient. With its four-cylinder engine, the Accord squeezes out 30 mpg overall and 40 on the highway, which is as good as the tiny Honda Fit. Higher-trim models have safety features seldom found in this category. And the Accord’s price is very reasonable: $23,270 to $30,860.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,824
    edited July 2013
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  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 221
    edited July 2013
    Honda Accord
    The Accord was redesigned for 2013, and Honda nailed it, sending this sedan to the top of its class. This new model is roomy, nice to drive, well equipped, and very fuel efficient. With its four-cylinder engine, the Accord squeezes out 30 mpg overall and 40 on the highway, which is as good as the tiny Honda Fit. Higher-trim models have safety features seldom found in this category. And the Accord’s price is very reasonable: $23,270 to $30,860....Reliability. Each must have earned an average or better predicted-reliability Rating, based on the problems Consumer Reports subscribers reported on 1.2 million vehicles in our latest Annual Auto Survey. .


    I am a CR fan, but I think they are prejudging the accord. The 4 cyl has been completely redone and is also using direct inject for the first time and using a CVT for the first time. How does one measure reliability and durability of something that is its first year? (Honda's previous attempt with the CVT was in the civic hybrid and it was a disaster.) Additionally, the 6 cyl is using a 6 speed transmission for the first time in the accord. Yes, they use a 6 speed in the odyssey, but they have had lots of complaints about it. But for some reason they are giving it an ok with the accord. It reminds me of the motor trend car of the year in 1981 - the K-car. All looked good in the initial year, but time proved them wrong.
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