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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,447
    edited July 2013
    After you watch/read vehicle reviews, you can learn things by what is shown or talked about/not talked about.
    The 1.6 Fusion is not a performance vehicle, so it is not surprising that the Mazda 6 performed better, given a week of hard driving.
    The Fusion tested does have a higher MSRP, but just looking at the side view mirrors. I'm sure they both have heated side view mirrors, but the Fusion also has a built in wide angle, turn signals, puddle lamps, and Blind spot system.
    That's just the side view mirrors, and I'll bet there are a bunch of other features that are also much better on the Fusion.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    edited July 2013
    Your bias is showing.
    I lived with a Toyota CVT in a Highlander hybrid for 5 years.
    The droning, moto boarding effect was most noticeable when passing.

    Had a Prius for a loaner for two days and a good friend owns one.
    Ditto on the drone, etc.
    Honda’s CVT will act the same when u accelerate to pass.

    As far as the Hyundai 6 speed, here’s what CR said back in 2011: “The six-speed automatic transmission shifts very smoothly and responsively.”

    CR on the 2013 Sonata: “The midsized Sonata is among the best of the less-costly family sedans. It has a firm yet comfortable ride and handles quite nimbly. The base 200-hp, four-cylinder engine and smooth, responsive six-speed automatic returned an impressive 27 mpg overall.”

    Overall CR gave the Sonata a score of 89 and the Accord a 90; not a significant difference

    Oh, FYI, the CAFE standards are based on overall MPG, not just highway.

    And CR has THE best fuel mileage test of all.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 882
    I have owned a 2013 Honda Accord CVT now for 4 months. There is no drone when passing or accelerating.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    edited July 2013
    Like when a boat gets up on a plane; lots of revving before settling down to speed.
    A friend of mine sells Hondas and I shall test drive one to see if they have been able to improve on the CVT; all the others I have experience with have this annoying trait.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 198
    edited July 2013
    Like when a boat gets up on a plane; lots of revving before settling down to speed.
    A friend of mine sells Hondas and I shall test drive one to see if they have been able to improve on the CVT; all the others I have experience with have this annoying trait.


    If you drive it would you please see if you have wind noise coming in the driver's door. I've read a lot about people complaining about wind noise from the top and rear of the driver's door and was wondering if it was a common thing. Thank you. Also, please check to see if there is any "transmission shutter" at low rpms shortly after taking off and just prior to stopping (10-20 mph range). These are the two issues that I've read the most about, but I haven't driven one yet.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    I own a 2013 Accord with the CVT. My car doesn't have any of those issues. Why don't you test drive one yourself?
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    For about $28,500 you can get the most advanced hybrid out there in Limited trim.
    That includes leather heated seats front AND rear, leather steering wheel and shifter,
    17” alloys, a killer 400 watt Infinity stereo w/ 8 speakers, an external amp, and a subwoofer, a 7” touch screen NAV system with a back-up camera, auto dimming mirror w/ compass, and Blue Link, Hyundai‘s much improved version of OnStar.

    The only option on a Ltd. Is the panoramic tilt-and-slide sunroof which bumps up the price by $1,000.
    Base model hybrids w/o the above reputedly can be had for under $24K but they are few-and-far-between.

    A comparable Camry or Fusion sells for thousands more and I am sure Honda Corp will price their hybrid even higher.

    This makes the Hyundai hybrids a screaming deal.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,052
    edited July 2013
    I have the same 2.4 I-4 and 6 speed auto combo in my Optima. With 200 HP and 186 lb ft standard, I was hoping to not miss the turbo. I continue to be impressed with this powertrain. Very smooth, refined, and efficient. The trans always delivers the right gear at the right time. As time passed I realized just how high performance this engine is. Try to imagine it as half of a V8. Hypothetically, if I added another 2.4 liter bank of pistons that were connected at the crank, it would be a 4.8 liter, 400 HP motor..with 372 lb ft! My old Jeep G/C had a 4.7 liter V8, cranking out a relatively low 235 HP. (300 lb ft).

    Determined to get better F/E, I did my research and decided to buy the Optima EX. I wanted the (non-hybrid) model with the best chance at getting good F/E numbers (24/35). Unfortunately, those numbers remain out of my reach. Due to the area I live in, my average speed is 26 mph, and I am not able to get over 22.5 mpg, especially over the past few months with the A/C cranked.

    So, it seems all those Prius and other hybrid owners have the right idea, as tooling around the city at low speeds requires only electric power for the most part, saving a bundle at the pump. Live and learn! :shades:
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 198
    edited July 2013
    I own a 2013 Accord with the CVT. My car doesn't have any of those issues. Why don't you test drive one yourself?

    I would not consider buying a first year car and that is essentially what the new accord is. I had an accord for 13 years and could never get rid of the wind noise from the A pillar. From what I have read, wind noise on the A pillar has been a problem on the accord since its introduction in 1976. (One would think they could have taken care of that issue in all those years. It seems they may have moved the noise from the A pillar to the middle and back of the window, but not gotten rid of it.) I also had three replacement transmissions (under warranty) in my 2000 accord and know of Honda's long history of transmission problems - not just with the accord. I would still consider an accord, but wouldn't remotely consider one with the new technology (direct inject and cvt) so it's not worth the effort for me to drive one, but if someone else is going to do so I would like to know his assessment, particularly since krypto gave an exact description (and unpleasant experience) of the only cvt vehicle I've driven (I rented a 2013 Altima).
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    edited July 2013
    Your bias is showing.

    As is yours. You can't seem to avoid talking about the Sonata, even when nobody brings it up in conversation.

    I lived with a Toyota CVT in a Highlander hybrid for 5 years.
    The droning, moto boarding effect was most noticeable when passing.


    Not all CVTs are created equally (or programmed equally, for that matter). Comparing a 6+ year old design from a different manufacturer, linked to a hybrid powertrain in a 4500-lb SUV with a V6 to a family car weighing 3200-lbs, a four-cylinder, and no hybrid is no comparison at all.

    And CR has THE best fuel mileage test of all.

    Says... who?

    Overall CR gave the Sonata a score of 89 and the Accord a 90; not a significant difference

    Agreed. The Sonata is a good car. The Accord, by every journalist's opinion I can find, is an even better one, but it doesn't suit everyone's taste. Drive what you like, like what you drive. :)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,702
    > The Sonata is a good car.

    But the Jetson's styling is already tired when I see them on the road. The previous Sonata had a styling that is timelessly pleasant.

    This message has been approved.

  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    but I access it thru the Hyundai Sonata Forum .

    Pretty obvious why Consumer Reports mpg tests are the best:

    CR’s test utilizes a test track and public roads, including a freeway for “highway” testing, and a fuel meter spliced into the fuel line.
    Their data are corrected for temperature using a formula established by the Society of Automotive Engineers.

    The EPA tests are actually performed by the automakers with protocols from the EPA on a dynamometer.
    For many models automakers may now substitute mathematical simulations of the EPA’s new tests.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    The Hyundai Sonata Hybrid ties with the Prisus lift back for the lowest Cd, .25 so don't expect major changes in its styling. The new Accord looks like an '06 Sonata.

    The Sonata hybrid also had the first active air flap of any car available in the US.
    It automatically closes when the car hits highway speeds.
    Fusion hybrids also have this.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623
    The Sonata hybrid is an impressive machine.++
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I access it thru the Hyundai Sonata Forum

    I'm guessing because you're a "Hyundai guy" and have sought out conversation on a car you like/own/are interested in owning. No problems there, but admit your own bias if you're going to call others out on it.

    It's the "midsize sedans" thread; accessible through many directions. It is not focused on the Sonata, but is focused on all competitors in the mainstream, midsize family sedans class. It is not focused on Hyundai.

    Pretty obvious why Consumer Reports mpg tests are the best

    It's one standard way; it's not the "best." There is no "best" but it's a good way; I'm not doubting you there.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The new Accord looks like an '06 Sonata.

    I have to disagree. The new Accord does resemble the $40,000 Hyunda Genesis from the rear, though. The 2006-2010 Sonata rear-end was a dead-ringer for the 2003-2007 generation of Accord. Trust me; I owned both.

    The Hyundai Sonata Hybrid ties with the Prisus lift back for the lowest Cd, .25 so don't expect major changes in its styling.

    That's a shame, because while I think the regular Sonata 2.4 and 2.0T are nice looking, the front of the Hybrid is a robotic catfish on four wheels.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The new Accord looks like an '06 Sonata.

    I have to disagree. The new Accord does resemble the $40,000 Hyunda Genesis from the rear, though. The 2006-2010 Sonata rear-end was a dead-ringer for the 2003-2007 generation of Accord. Trust me; I owned both.

    The Hyundai Sonata Hybrid ties with the Prisus lift back for the lowest Cd, .25 so don't expect major changes in its styling.

    That's a shame, because the Hybrid looks like a bionic catfish.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    U need 2 look around: many new models feature some variant on the Sonata grill including the Fusion and Avalon among others.

    It looks that way because of the aerodynamics.
    At least it is fresh, not blandly retro like the Accords.

    FYI, this thread is about midsize sedans and until recently the Sonata was being left out. And I already own one - my second Sonata hybrid - and also drive a Venza and '95 T100 4WD.

    Not as many fan boiyz as honda i guess.

    And please let me know when you find a better mpg test than Consumer Reports does.

    U do know what an automotive engineer is don't you?
  • Kirstie@EdmundsKirstie@Edmunds Posts: 10,676
    Let's knock off the condescending comments, please. Stick to talking about vehicles, and not other members.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    What makes CRs fuel economy test "better"? Especially when they won't disclose the details of the test?
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