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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    "Cars wear out."

    Of course they do. I was referring to what we used to have in the 80s where the entire vehicle would fall apart before 100K miles. Literally. A modern car can go 150K miles with only normal maintenance and replacement of wear parts like shocks and brake pads. As for the water pump failure - had he ever changed the coolant? Or checked the CV boots? Without proper maintenance you'll have more failures.

    But implying that cars fall apart after 3 years is ludicrous.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,282
    As long as the problems aren't critical, i.e. your tranny, then I see no problem choosing one lower on the list (for whatever reason).

    What makes you think the problems are not critical? JD Powers doesn't distinguish between normal brake dust and short-lived Chrysler transmissions.

    I can't remember a repair that cost me less than $200, and they came in at a rate of 3 or 4 per year; without fail after the warranty was up.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Cramped and chintzy are two words I've never heard about the 2013 Fusion, even in base trim.

    I'm 5'11" 250 and I have tons of knee space and leg room.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    Didn't say they weren't"As long as the problems aren't critical" :)

    I'm not certain if JD Powers just 'counts' problems or assigns a weight to the problem.

    I do agree, giving equal weight to an Audi glove compartment latch that needs adjusting and a Chrysler tranny blowing up does seem to make the ranking useless.

    Of course, even if the problems were the same (such as a tranny), there's cost too (out of warranty that is). I suspect the Porsche trannies will be more expensive to repair than the Chrysler's.

    There doesn't seem to be one established source that can give a definitive answer on reliability. With most repair shops (the legit ones) being computerized I'm certain all the data is available; somebody just needs to access it all and merge it into a central repository...maybe the NSA can do this for us :)
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 882
    Consumer Reports groups types of comparable problems and lists each separately.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,542
    This is from the Christian Science Monitor (!) but there are many sources on the net, announced today:

    "The first Hyundai recall involves approximately 240,000 Sonata and Azera sedans manufactured between 2005 and 2011 and sold in the District of Columbia and 20 US states: Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.

    According to the NHTSA filing, the salt used on roads during colder weather in these states could rust the steel undersides of the vehicles, which could cause misalignment of the rear wheels.

    Affected models include 2006 to 2010 Sonatas manufactured between March 1, 2005, and Jan. 21, 2010, and 2006 to 2011 Azera sedans manufactured between Sept. 27, 2005, and Nov. 22, 2010."

    More evidence that you get what you pay for.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,446
    Connecticut doesn't use salt anymore. The stuff they use now attacks rubber, so you have to go to the car wash once a month in the winter to clean the bottom of the car.
    The first couple of years, I didn't get my primary winter vehicle washed and ended up replacing 2 pinion seals and a rear axle seal.
    This last winter I took it once a month and no leaks.
    Could be coincidence.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 882
    Recalls just mean they recognize a problem and are dealing with it. It's not necessarily an indication of a troublesome car. Winter roads are tough on cars but not nearly as bad as they used to be.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    A few years ago Toyota had way more recalls than any other mfr including truck frames that rusted IN HALF! Didn't hurt their reputation.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,542
    True. But it should have. People believe what they want to believe.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 882
    "More recalls than any other manufacturer" -- any evidence for that statement?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    2010 - Toyota recalled 7.1M vehicles - almost twice GM who was in second place with 4M. -issued-the-most-recalls.html
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,282
    But those bad truck frames were made by a US supplier and shown to not meet Toyota specifications.

    True, Toyota has ultimate responsiblity, but this is why it's smart to buy the one's made in Japan, not the one's made in the USA. Another example is the US made gas pedal assemblies were the ones that may have caused some SUA incidents (but not accidents; that's driver error, put it in neutral or turn off the car!).

    Lexus is number one on JD Powers and is widely accepted as the most reliable car brand in all of history for decades now. Their IS 350 is 100% made in Japan with 100% Japanese parts and assembly; that's impressive. All Lexus' are apparently made in Japan except for a few RX's.

    Doesn't surprise me why they are always number 1 now. Makes sense. I've never seen 100% Japanese on a car until the 2014 IS 350.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 882
    You also have to look at what the recalls are for. One was for a power window switch. One recently was for an air bag design flaw that Toyota actually fixed vehicles going back over 10 years, long out of warranty. My Pontiac Vibe was involved in that one and its 9 years old. To me that's a company standing by their products and making things right. Neither of these recalls involved any actual injuries, just a potential identified problem.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    The 2013 Sonata hybrid’s acceleration and fuel-economy improvements are quantifiable and worth mentioning, but the car’s better-integrated drivability makes a significant difference.

    We already liked the smooth electric drive-off feel and the fact that the Sonata hybrid forgoes the usual wheezy CVT for a more-pleasing six-speed step-gear automatic, but Hyundai really hit the books to work out the kinks and smooth transitions between electric and gas-engine hybrid modes.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,049
    edited August 2013
    As I said he bought it used, and was one of those people who ABSOLUTELY BELIEVES that 130,000 miles on a Camry is nothing, and the car will run 250-300,000 miles with no problem, with little maintenance. He can't understand why the belts are squealing and the front end is shaking and the rotors are warped, because it's a TOYOTA. Toyota has this reputation all over the world too. It sells a lot of cars with that blind belief.

    That is why I wrote about the Camry reliability in the first place. They have won the hearts and minds of many, even though their product needs just as many repairs as it's peers on average.

    Personally Kirby, I have never needed anything other than regular maintenance on every car I have ever owned while still making payments, except for my 1987 Chevy Z24. I have had cars break down less than 30 days from my final payment. Many times.

    Things that make you go Hmmmm. LOL.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,049
    edited August 2013
    Damn, that bites! Why don't you swap cars every time you stop along the route? I have been really looking forward to my first long road trip with the Optima, especially to see how she does with MPG/FE, and I can't imagine having to let my wife drive it! If I needed to pick up furniture, I would have to drive our giant old 2003 Ford F-150 quad cab, with a 5.4 liter V8, and at best it gets 17 mpg. It usually just sits until someone in the family needs to move or or whatever. It's handy. My wife usually just drives my elderly mothers 2010 Kia Forte' EX.

    The Bosch Advantage beam-style wiper blades I installed are killer, especially in conjunction with the Rain-X. Today was the first morning that I got to use them, and I was blown away. I am buying them for my wife and my mother as soon as we get back from Myrtle Beach.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,702
    >But those bad truck frames were made by a US supplier...

    Of course they were. :grin

    >and shown to not meet Toyota specifications.

    Of course they didn't. :grin

    This message has been approved.

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,195
    Back in 2002 I was car shopping and had a chance to drive a 2003 Camry with leather. What I remember was an almost creamy smooth engine and transmission. Quiet and solid. It was a 4 cylinder and I was very impressed. I think MSRP was mid 20's. I needed a bigger car and ended up with a 2002 Chrysler Concorde Limited which had a huge trunk and nice interior. Trouble free for 80k miles. Back to the 03 Camry. I rented a new 2013 in February and it was totally different from the 03. VERY firm ride and very noticeable engine noise. Maybe my memory on the 03 is faulty -- anyone have a comment ?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I don't think recalls are necessarily bad either - just pointing out that even mighty Toyota who some people think are perfect can have a bad year with recalls.
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