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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,232
    Perhaps the towing restriction has to do with tires, suspension, and braking v. the engine/trans. Or just a marketing desire to upsell trim levels for those who would tow.
  • ++My Prius is definitely an appliance --- but it is a roomy pleasant appliance that gets 50-55 mpg. Look elsewhere for an ultimate driving machine. ++

    Agreed. There's a buyer for all kinds of cars. I drive a Sonata, and think it makes a great commuter appliance, but it's not for "drivers." It's a better-priced Camry; soft ride, lots of power (3.3L), plenty of room.
  • I think every household would benefit from owning a "beater." I have a 14 year old Frontier that does the "dirty work" I don't let the Sonata do. In the last month it has picked up a treadmill, driven my lawn tractor to my grandmother's house, picked up yard tools from a different relative's house, and driven me to work a few times. Cheap to insure, cheap to run.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,426
    Most cars can tow 1,000 to 1,500 lbs. Most minivans can tow 3,500 lbs. Trucks are not really needed unless you have a big boat.

    Beater trucks are nice to have - no need to worry abut scratching it up. Can't tell you how many people I know who buy these "rugged" trucks with leather etc and then never want to get them dirty. Saw a $65,000 Ford truck at the dealer the other day - unbelievable. :confuse:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,824
    Kinda depends on where to/from you need to tow something. We have a 21' boat (and a camper), and even if a minivan could technically tow either of them, there's no way either would make it safely up and down the gravel-on-dirt fairly steep hill. Our 4WD V8 is barely enough.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited September 2013
    The "cheap to insure" isn't always part of the equation unfortunately. I'm in Cda and worse than that; ON, so insurance is a huge part of operating an extra vehicle.

    All those things you just did with your Frontier, should be able to be done with any car you choose to purchase, and a small utility trlr and not be restricted because a brand says it's not recommended. I think it's possible they use these clauses to potentially get out of wty claims if they are ignored by the consumer. Although it sounds a bit out there since some lesser vehicles within the brand have no such restriction..I dunno..and is why I don't get the inconsistency.

    But owning a second vehicle (as expensive to run and insure as a truck of all vehicles) would cost more than renting to go to the dump on occasion etc.

    But don't forget, we are not just talking about things that can be loaded in the back of a truck. A small 12 or 14' fishing boat with 15hp outbd, gas tank, assorted optional bits, and life jackets etc including the trlr itself, all comes in well under even a humble 1000 lbs. And you can't stuff that in your truck. Sure, I've seen aluminum boats stuffed in the box of an 8' p/u, but talk about difficult when actually getting to the lake and unloading and unhooking the motor each time etc etc. It's not practical, and to many not even possible. And what if they have a family of 3 or 4? They're not going to be jammed into a p/u truck.

    That's why I say, all cars should be able to tow something..
    Hell, I have a pic here somewhere of a guy who had a diesel Smart and towed his CBR600RR to the track every w/e..yes, I think that hitch was home-fabricated and "not recommended".. but appeared to have done a good job with it and its intended purpose..towing about 550lb.

    And as a final send-the-point-home thought...what if the Regal was the perfect vehicle for a young couple in every way, except that their passion was to take their bicycles with them when the went for a drive to explore new towns..Well they'd have to choose a different vehicle cuz GM says you can't put a hitch on a Regal.
  • The Frontier I acquired in June is the first truck I've had. Before that, I had a 1996 Accord, and yes, for 5 years it was a "second" vehicle. I spent about $250 a year on tags and liability; same goes for the Frontier. The Accord did my dirty work because it really had no value to lose. However, it was in terrific shape at 235k miles when it was totaled in 2011.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 924
    Bikes aren't a good example as most bike racks don't require a hitch. On a minivan we used to fit 4 bikes on a rack.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    Sales for August and year to date. The Camry is maintaining its comfortable lead.

    Toyota Camry 44,713 21.8 287,119 2.3
    Honda Accord 38,559 10.6 256,926 17.5
    Nissan Altima 30,976 19.6 228,297 8.9
    Ford Fusion 24,653 13.7 206,321 13.4
  • I would be interested to see average transaction prices included in that data. I'd wager the Fusion would be highest, followed by Accord, with Camry and Altima lagging.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    edited September 2013
    "Kinda depends on where to/from you need to tow something. We have a 21' boat (and a camper), and even if a minivan could technically tow either of them, there's no way either would make it safely up and down the gravel-on-dirt fairly steep hill. Our 4WD V8 is barely enough. "

    That's for sure. Plus most people don't realize what the max tow rating means. Most max tow ratings only allow for the driver in the tow vehicle. Basically meaning the additional weight of extra people and cargo go against the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating).

    We have a 24'6' boat which weighs a bit over 6k lbs on the trailer. My Expedition with it's 9k lb tow rating gets all it can handle with people and gear. No way would I attempt to pull it with anything less and frankly I'd have a beefier tow vehicle if we towed it often. Since it stays on a lift at the lake, I only tow it a few times a year.

    Plus the 9k rating is a bit misleading. The max tongue weight is 900lbs. Most trailers pushing that much weight have over 10-15% (boats are 5-10%).

    But yeah, if you have a small boat or pop up camper and don't load a minivan up with 7 people and a weeks worth of gear it can be doable.

    We towed our first boat with a minivan a 17' open bow i/o. It towed okay except steep slick boat ramps were a problem. Weight shifts off the front wheels and one time we had to have about 4 people help push us up the ramp. That was somewhat embarrassing.
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,250
    You need to test sit a Prius to appreciate the roominess of the cabin. The instruments and gear shift are odd and take a bit of time to get the system down. It isn't that weird but it is different enough from non hybrids to turn some folks off. The ride is pretty benign -- smooth with very little steering feedback. I can't say how it compares to midsize basic transportation but you will pay a 5-7k premium over base Camcords, Optimas and Malibus. Unless you drive a lot or are into saving the planet, it doesn't make much sense. I bought mine because I really like the seating and the hatchback. The MPG is just a bonus but it is amusing to peg the mpg gauge at 99 creeping along in heavy traffic. Driving in the traffic though, isn't much fun.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,680
    from tsx at

    Camry 44,713
    Accord 38,559
    Altima 30,976
    Fusion 24,653
    Sonata 16,917
    Malibu 16,890
    Optima 15,199
    Passat 10,194
    200 10,139
    Avenger 6,351
    Mazda6 4,249
    Legacy 3,954
  • ahightowerahightower DFWPosts: 461
    I just discovered that in Canada, they can get the Accord Sport manual in blue and pearl white, in addition to the black and grey which our only two choices with the manual.

    Any unfounded conspiracy theories?

    As noted before, I've come to love my grey sport 6MT and the way the body and wheel colors coordinate. But more choices would be nice. I'd have probably gone blue or pearl if I had the choice, if only because my last car was the same color as my new one. Variety, ya know.

    Upon further review, they can only get the LX in three colors (black, silver, white) and the red, champagne, and "hematite" are only available on the highest Touring V6 trim. And there is a Touring 4-cylnider trim level, which is nice for those who want all the gadgets with the smaller engine and a manual.

    Interesting choices. I suppose they gravitate toward the higher trims and the smaller engines in general up there. Okay, that's the end of my whining for today.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited September 2013
    Yes, the Chrysler 3.6 liter is their new "corporate" engine, and the more models that use it the cheaper it is for Chrysler, instead of making 6 different V6 engines with thousands of different parts, etc.

    The 3.6 at Chrysler is an analog to the VW/Audi 2.0T for example.

    The 3.6 replaces or is in the process of replacing the following:

    The old 3.5 liter, the Jeep 3.7 and 4.0 liter, and the (dreadful) 2.7 liter base engine that used to be in the Chrysler 300 and Charger base models.

    The 3.5 liter and the 2.7 liter date from the old cab-forward Intrepid line. The 3.5 was in the ES, the old 300M, and the Concorde.

    The 2.7 was in the base Intrepid and the Sebring Convertible.

    I just read that the European Chrysler 3.0 liter V6 block is used for the new Maserati Ghibli, (just the block though thankfully).

    There is no change for the 3.2 diesel as it carries over for 2014 models and beyond.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited September 2013
    Like you said, folks who need to tow something generally do not buy cars that are not built for it, but in the end we are kind of over-complicating the issue.

    I have one of those 10 ft long green fishing boats with at 5 hp gas outboard. I think my dad bought it from Sears in 1982 or something. The boat, engine and gear plus the tiny trailer weigh less than 500 pounds, and the tongue weight is printed on the trailer. 30 lbs.

    I would not hesitate to tow it with my Optima, and I am POSITIVE that it wont hurt any hybrid whatsoever, as long as it isn't packed to the gills on the inside and a trunk full of gold bars.

    You can use the standard Cruze hitch on the Eco.

    Here is an example of other weird vehicles to tow with: - - - playimage.php%3Fimageid%3D3531&imgrefurl= - - - y/showimage.php?i%3D3531%26catid%3Dnewimages&h=667&w=1000&sz=105&tbnid=638NuwVyT- - - - PCuRM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=133&zoom=1&usg=__AnYW-viwpvD4E-P5NfC-Np17EUo=&docid=5zxGjvXT- - - - YJg1-M&sa=X&ei=HYQoUqHUK6HG2wXv7YHADQ&ved=0CDEQ9QEwAQ&dur=769

    Also, do not do this: - - O_N_I_K/575127_10150698850136699_186754246698_9572453_1338027637_n.jpg&imgrefurl- - - = - - ar_pulling_a_boat&h=255&w=324&sz=11&tbnid=_nNTakpbPqXY5M:&tbnh=95&tbnw=121&zoom=- - - 1&usg=__bMtYZ7zOhw9jMBtrITfguqO_Zxw=&docid=wq9bfVmCI3XiJM&sa=X&ei=HYQoUqHUK6HG2w- - - Xv7YHADQ&ved=0CFEQ9QEwCw&dur=530
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    Thanks man. I hate seeing Mazda down there at the bottom, under the Avenger and the 200. I know it has to do with the recent introduction of the model and the limited availability thus far, but I still would have thought the 6 had reached 10,000 units by now after it's victory over the Accord, not to mention the win over the rest of the playing field.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    The other thing you can do is if your car is sold over in Europe, it to look at it's tow rating there, you will find it is different. It is mainly to save themselves from liability that manufacturers limit towing in North America. Usually the tow limit will be higher in Europe even for the exact same car and power train, and you will see a tow rating for Mazda's etc even with a smaller engine than available here. Again it is because of the legal system in the states ( same reason ABS wasn't offered for so long when it was available over there, etc).
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 221
    I was in Europe when I was in the service and I do think they had features in their cars that we took forever to get in the states. It wasn't just cars, but many other things as well. My favorite, and I still don't understand it, was laundry machines. I asked if they washed or dried clothes and got a funny look, then heard the answer "both". This was 20 years ago.
  • gogophers1gogophers1 Posts: 218
    edited September 2013
    I too find Honda's complex color availability scheme completely baffling. The Accord EX manual is right at the top of my shopping list right now, but I'm not nuts about gray/silver cars. Moreover, I really don't care for monochrome dark grey/graphite interiors (the ONLY interior color you can get with the stick).

    Ford, on the other hand, will let me order a manual Fusion with any color available on the palette (even though it pitched my fave Ford color, Ginger Ale, and still doesn't offer any hue close to champagne or light/medium blue - my preferred ext. color choices). I can also get a beige/black interior with the manual Ford (much better than solid, dark grey IMO).

    Mazda does it best when it comes to color choices on manual equipped cars though: the new 6 is available in two stunning colors, Soul Red and Reflex Blue (in addition to the usual array of tint-free hues) regardless of whether or not you wish to row your own gears. Moreover, the beige/black interior option is absolutely beautiful, especially so with the pinstripe cloth - and it's even available with the medium blue exterior.
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