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Midsize Sedans 2.0

19509519539559561028

Comments

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,542
    The previous Azera had terrible problems with suspension components and ride quality, and Kiyundai products generally are lacking in suspension tuning finesse and ride dynamics, so it is not a surprise that the new models continue to suffer from the issue. Good on C&D for telling it like it is and not falling prey to the "it's new, so it's good" hype that afflicts so many automotive reviews.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    "MT has a long and storied history of selling their recommendations to the highest bidder."

    Do you have any actual proof of this other than disagreeing with their COTY choices? They have made some rather odd choices over the years but I've never heard of or seen any real evidence that they or any other mainstream magazine were actually paid off. It's usually just somebody making things up because car companies advertise in those magazines. Gee, imagine that, car companies actually advertising in a periodical that caters to people that are interested in and buy cars.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    I've heard those stories too, that car mags "sell" their recommendations somehow.

    I've never seen any proof of that, however. :P

    I do know that if Hyundai/Kia is so focused on buying awards and MT is willing to sell them, then Hyundai/Kia have done a lousy job on that so far... zero COTYs to date.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,450
    It's not like Crap & Drivel doesn't have their own agenda.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    What they tend to like or dislike or as you say "their agenda" is a far cry from taking bribes. By the way, what is their agenda?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,450
    They have their brands they like.
    Their favorite would 'the best thing ever'.
    It would get redesigned and they would point out the deficiencies of the old 'best thing ever'.
    I have a pretty good memory and back then, I subscribed and had the old issues that I could read again.
    'Darling' vehicles never had the deficiencies mentioned when it was 'the best thing ever'.
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,195
    Their agenda is to generate revenue through advertising sales to pay salaries and hopefully make money after expenses. It's all about survival in a competitive market.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Peter DeLorenzo used to work for GM. When they submitted their entries for COTY to MT it had to be accompanied by a lengthy description of how the mfr would market the award if they won. You tell me why that would be needed before the competition started.........
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    That is the agenda or goal of every for profit magazine. Does that mean they "paid off"?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Incompetence is different than fraud.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,450
    Mr Autoextremeist.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,450
    I never said anything about fraud.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    No, you just insinuated they slant their reviews based on their "agenda".
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,542
    It was common knowledge as far back as the 1960s and '70s.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    edited October 2013
    Riiiight.... I disagree with some of the mags from time to time but I have never heard of any of them even investigated for taking bribes or basing their reviews on advertising dollars. Lots of people come in these forums and take cheap, driveby shot at the mags with accusations but I've never seen them cite one single shred of evidence. Now if one wants to say they(the mags) don't know what they are doing or talking about, that's fine as it is an opinion. But it's easy to say something is "well known" or "common knowledge" without having to show any evidence of it. It was probably rumors back then just like it's rumors today. People love conspiracy theories when they don't agree with something.
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,195
    I would probably figure that car mags want to avoid biting the hand that feeds them. Some of the biggest and best advertising is from car companies. Nice glossy pullout pages touting the brand. Draw your own conclusions.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,052
    It turns into scrap metal...thus saving the world by recycling. LOL.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,052
    Every car mag gets accused of this in every issue. I have read Car and Driver religiously for decades and always look through the letters to the editor first (called Backfires). There is always a letter from a reader making those accusations, mostly about BMW 3 series and Honda Accords winning the 10 best awards year after year. The magazine addresses the issue openly and I believe they really are impartial.

    I have also read MT for many years, and I very much enjoy when their opinion differs from Car and Driver, giving me a different perspective sometimes.

    If you really look at the comparo's closely, you will notice that sometimes a car wins by just one point over the winner that was chosen by a competing mag. To me it just adds choices. I just add the car to my list of ones to consider, giving me more options when it comes time to choose and sign that buyers order.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407
    It can be problematic criticizing a car too heavily when the maker of that car pays your bills by placing ads in your magazine. I find that all car mags have good things to say about even the worst cars.

    CR is the only exception and that is precisely why they don't accept advertising. They also call a spade a spade and have on several occasions rated cars as unacceptable.

    No matter how bad the vehicle no car mag would ever rate a car as unacceptable if the maker placed ads in the mag.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,052
    edited October 2013
    It is mostly the new EPS (Electric Power Steering) systems they are criticizing as being numb and having no feel, but this was compounded by the Azera and the Cadenza being built on the Optima/Sonata platform and asking this platform to carry 500 more pounds of engine and a larger body without adding more cross structural beams and welds.

    Now, they did say that the structural rigidity problem was only less as compared with the competition. The Impala and the Avalon are brand new chassis from the ground up, and their frames are far more rigid than say a 4 year old platform that has been modified to carry more weight than the Sonata and the Optima were designed for.

    The Chrysler/Dodge contenders in the comparo are rear drive, so the steering had better feel because those wheels are not powered and have better response as the design doesn't have to filter out the rotating mass of axle's in the front drive competitors. Also, underneath the Chrysler's is a Mercedes platform that is very rigid.
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