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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    OMG I read that backy. I'm just glad someone else posted it. Really though, back in the day C/D was the very best car mag. It is a shame that it seems to keep getting thinner and thinner. I mean, what else is a man to read on the throne?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    Philosophically, the Avalon and the Fusion are different, and both are new designs.
    Avalon is smoother, although from what reviews I have read, it has stiffened the ride a bit. Now it shares chassis with Lexus ES which is no longer based on the Camry. V6 is the non hybrid engine choice.
    Fusion is sportier, and only comes with a 4 cyl, not as smooth as a V6, but will most likely return better mileage.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952

    ????. I guess you mean that the Avalon is a full size car and the Fusion is a midsize car. Most full size cars drive somewhat different....because they are a different class of car. Toyota's Fusion competition in the midsize field is the Camry. Avalon is comparable to other full sizers like the Taurus, Impala, Alzera, LaCrosse and 300. All a class up from the cars that are discussed here. Equipped with similar equipment these cars usually run about $6-9k more than the midsizers.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    vser is comparing these 2 cars. They might be considered different classes by the EPA, but the interior space is less than 1 cubic/ft difference.
    I guess there was a point to be made and I don't know what it was, but I'm listening.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    I think down the road you would be glad you bought the Avalon. If you can swing the extra cash...then go for it.

    I know you have been trying to decide between three cars, two of which are mid size. So, I think it is fine you are posting about it here. If you choose Fusion 2.0 E/B Titanium or Optima SX you will save some money and have a great car

    In response to m6user:
    If you buy the Avalon you have to talk about it on the large car board after all is said and done, but I still want to know if you did choose it, and how you like it every now and then.

    I feel there should be a board called "Modern Mainstream Sedans", and have it done by price range. Until then though, mid size is the focus here,
  • rysterryster Posts: 476
    Personally, I would avoid the Fusion. My friend bought a 2013 Fusion Titanium. It has been back to the dealer at least three times for different issues. The "FUSION" badge on the trunk totally fell off. The front passenger seat stopped working (it stopped sliding.) The power steering failed and needed to be replaced (requiring a tow to the dealer, and then $2,000 in warranty work.) They are not pleased at all and quite frankly wish they could lemon it.

    I have a 2011 Hyundai Sonata. I purchased it new, and now have 47,000 miles on it. Aside from several interior squeaks and rattles it has been reliable. Dealer service has been exceptional. It is my first Hyundai, and I would not hesitate to buy another Hyundai product.

    Based on ALG residual value figures, the Avalon will probably be worth $10,000 after 7 years. The Fusion Titanium would be about $7,000 after 7 years. As others have pointed out, you will have spent $29,000 on the Avalon, and $26,600 on the Fusion. The KIA Optima Turbo will have a value of $6-7,000 after 7 years as well, so you will have spent only $23-24,000 on the KIA.

    It all comes down to which one makes you happiest and where you feel your money is best spent. I would probably trust a 7 year old Toyota or KIA/Hyundai product more than I would a 7 year old Ford product. I have owned 2 Fords and had no luck with them. I was no stranger to the Ford service department for unscheduled work.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    My Fusion was keypad entry, so you don't need the keys to get in the car.
    Capless fuel fuel filler is convenient, although minor.
    My Fusion also has remote start. I rarely use it and when I do, it's to find the car in the dark.
    It's less obnoxious that using the panic feature.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    edited October 2013
    I don't think I would want the keypad because it takes longer. The Optima just lights up when I am about 2 ft from the car, and I just push a tiny recessed button on the door handle and it opens. No fuss and no code to remember.

    I don't have the remote start, but I very much wish I did!

    The car does not like to be left running without the me in the car. It "screams" at me with an irritating, ear-piercing warning chime. ( but I understand why). It only last about 10 seconds and is helpful if you really did accidentally leave the car running with the key-fob in or even forgot to turn the car off even if you didn't leave the fob.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 924
    Accord also has recessed button to lock and unlock. No fiddling with anything. I like that. And it also beeps loudly if you leave the engine running. I like that too because the engine is quiet and I have forgotten a couple of times. Probably because of being new to push button on and off.

    I'd be very surprised if the Avalon was worth only 10k after 7 years.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    With the keypad you don't need the keys at all.
    My Fusion does have keyless entry, which is what you are referring to.
    When my car is running or active and I exit it with the key in my pocket, I get scolded too.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,179
    Wait...can you start the car w/o a key at all, or only go grab your celly and whatever?

    I had a 94 SHO (a real SHO with the Yamaha 6) and it had a keypad. I totally forgot the password. I loved it. Until the engine seized. :(
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    I was just trying to explain that of course a full size car is going to ride and handle a little different than a midsize car and that is hard to compare apples to pears so to speak even though the price somewhat similar.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    edited October 2013
    Not start the car, I can get into it without the keys. It's great when your kids need something out of the car, but you don't want to give them the keys.
    You should have gotten the valves adjusted on your SHO.
    I had an 89 and a 92. My wife also had a 96.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    Do some homework and you will see that the size of these cars are almost identical.
    The difference is the EPA definition of the interior space. It just crosses the artificial definition of mid size and large.
    The prices are not close to each other.
    Go back, take your time, and read what 'vser' wrote about the them.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    I realize they are close in size and I don't understand why you keep bringing up the EPA. They don't decide which cars are marketed as fullsize sedans or midsize sedans....the auto manufacturers do. I agree the prices are not close which makes sense as they are different classes of cars....exactly what I was saying. I think it's fine that somebody is cross shopping two different classes of car and they can be discussed here. I'm just pointing out that just because the Avalon is similar in size to the Fusion, it is not marketed by Toyota as midsize sedan but as a full size sedan like the Taurus, etc. It just happens to be one of the smaller fullsize sedans.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    I'd like to see where the Avalon is marketed a as larger than mid size by Toyota.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    That's pretty easy... for example, click the link below then look at what the title of the tab in your browser window is: "Toyota Avalon 2013 | Full-size Cars".

    It's clear that Toyota at least considers their Avalon to be a "full-sized" car... not a mid-sized car.!/Welcome
  • vservser Posts: 48
    I took the Avalon out for a few hours. The ride was nice. Just felt good. Stereo was great. Nav an infotainment was confusing, and I'm technical. Fwiw the seats were ok, but after reading abt complaints, I might be inclined to understand why ppl might have complained. Also there is some chrome that caused glare. Other than that, I felt good driving it. Now I'm going to try to eliminate the fusion or optima. Price for a 2013 Limited Av is abt 35500 plus tax and dest. Fusion out the door at 33500. Optima sx turbo 30000 before any negotiating. I'm going to try to get the optima on an overnight. In the Av I payed close attention to the bumpier roads and steering. The optima is firm almost to a fault. I'm going to try to pay closer attn during my next ride. Also fwiw the Av is 195 inches. Only a few longer than the midsizers.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 924
    I'm surprised the Fusion is so much more expensive than the Honda Accord. I thought they were similar.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    The EPA classifies the Avalon as a large car, although it is not really a large car.
    It happens to exceed the 119 cu/ft threshold.
    If the Avalon has to be excluded from this discussion, so do the Honda Accord LX and Sport. At 119 cu/ft combined interior/trunk space, the are classified as large cars.
    Other models of the Accord, due to the sunroof, are still considered mid size.
    It makes no sense to me, to split hairs like this, but that's what some are pushing for.
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