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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,046

    Brrr. 17 degrees (F). It isn't often that it gets this cold. Snow likes to pack up in my mudguards, so I am constantly worried one will break off- it most likely wont with the 3" we got last night. I truly commend you snow belt/Canada guys just for getting out and scraping the car in the morning...and EVERY morning. Car tracked great even on unplowed streets.

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346

    @cski said: Brrr. 17 degrees (F). It isn't often that it gets this cold. Snow likes to pack up in my mudguards, so I am constantly worried one will break off- it most likely wont with the 3" we got last night. I truly commend you snow belt/Canada guys just for getting out and scraping the car in the morning...and EVERY morning. Car tracked great even on unplowed streets.

    Got down to -21 last night. This Arctic air mass is affecting a huge area.

    I put up a portable garage a few weeks ago to keep the mice from trying to get into the car. It's a pain dealing with resealing the zipper door at the bottom with snow packed in, but this has worked. I notice that while it is only polyethylene, it is not as cold inside it. What is really noticeable is that there isn't any windchill of course, so a benefit if you are checking tire pressures or adding W/S washer fluid etc. But as for starting I always use a block heater to save the engine with quicker oil circulation, starter, mpg and have a faster defrost and heat, but they say windchill doesn't factor in as for block temps when you are starting.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,046
    edited January 3

    @crkyolfrt said: I put up a portable garage a few weeks ago to keep the mice from trying to get into the car. It's a pain dealing with resealing the zipper door at the bottom with snow packed in, but this has worked. I notice that while it is only polyethylene, it is not as cold inside it. What is really noticeable is that there isn't any windchill of course, so a benefit if you are checking tire pressures or adding W/S washer fluid etc. But as for starting I always use a block heater to save the engine with quicker oil circulation, starter, mpg and have a faster defrost and heat, but they say windchill doesn't factor in as for block temps when you are starting.

    I always say I love the cold, but that is because cold here is nothing compared to you Northern-North American folks. I had to scrape, clear off, and pump gas in both cars this morning, and I gotta tell you I was really cold even with my winter coat on. Once you get used to hopping in your car every day and just going....it was a sobering experience. Kudo's to you, and no wonder your cranky!

    I thought I would tell you guys that KIA Motor Finance offers a nice payment deferment program for NO fee and no interest rate hike or penalty. Instead of struggling to pay off all the credit cards before the end of the month, I was able to defer TWO car payments. That means no struggle for me this year, and since you can do it 6 times....I wont have any trouble next year either. With three kids and a mortgage, that is a great financial tool. Now, interest does accrue like normal during the deferment period, but since I have paid extra each month and paid early.... I am fine with that. Happy New Year!!!

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,621

    midsize sales for Dec.

    Accord: 31,895 Camry: 29,964 Altima: 24,816 Fusion: 24,408

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,444

    @benjaminh said: midsize sales for Dec.

    Accord: 31,895 Camry: 29,964 Altima: 24,816 Fusion: 24,408

    2013 sales: Camry 404k (-1%), Accord 367k (+14%), Altima 321k (+6%), Fusion 295k (+26%)

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 2,006
    edited January 4

    Ben,

    That dam Camry just wont go away. No matter what Honda does.. If Toyota was selling Camry's with 3 wheels folks would still buy them.. With there recent problems with acceleration, and crash test scores its truly amazing the numbers they still get. Even Consumer reports have them in 4th place in the midsize market. I'd like to see there fleet sale market numbers. I know they sell plenty to the rental companies..

    Camry , Altima, Fusion are also Heavily discounted by there manufactorer something honda is more Reluctant to do.. The Camry is also about 1k cheaper to manufactor than a Accord.

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 2,006

    Honda has a shot next year to overcome Toyota with less than 40k units seperating them.

    Fleet sales put them over the top

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 2,006
    edited January 4

    More on Toyota , Altima, Fusion
    Toyota Camry incentives and fleet sales cranked to keep sales crown, insiders worried

    2013 Toyota Camry - front three-quarter view, maroon

    By Chris Paukert RSS feed Google+

    Posted Jul 1st 2013 2:30PM

    7641

    Comments204

    We've been watching for some time now as Toyota has piled more incentives on the hood of its Camry sedan, and Automotive News reports that the we're not the only ones with raised eyebrows. The current Camry hasn't even been on the market for two years, but the family sedan segment is more hotly contested than it has been in years. It's that high level of competition that has led the automaker to uncharacteristically add more money on the hood in order to assure it maintains its long-held title of America's Best-Selling Car, a mantle it has owned for a dozen years. It's ramping up fleet sales, too.

    According to the analysts at TrueCar, Toyota has bumped incentives per unit every month this year, now totaling some $2,750 as of May, a 38-percent hike over this time last year. That's more spiff money than the segment's other best sellers, the Nissan Altima ($2,400), Ford Fusion ($2,300) and Honda Accord ($1,400), all of whom have actually decreased their incentive spend by 20- to 40-percent over the same period.

    The ramp up in incentive spending and fleet sales has analysts concerned that Toyota will tarnish the Camry's historically sterling resale value. ALG pegs the 2013 Camry's current 36-month residual value at 54.4 percent, well ahead of the segment average's 50.9 percent (but shy of the Accord's 55.6 percent). However, analysts are concerned that as the current generation ages, their resale values will eventually plummet if incentives continue to increase as Toyota looks to keep the Camry's best-selling car crown going forward.

    Automotive News cites R.L. Polk data in noting that many of the family sedan segment's heavyweights are running above 30-percent fleet sales, including the Altima, Fusion and Chevrolet Malibu, while the Camry is expected to finish the year under 15 percent. Even so, Camry sales to fleets are ahead of this time last year (despite 2012's numbers having sizable catch-up sales after 2011's tsunami-tightened supplies). Honda has long touted its low fleet sale percentage, and the new Accord is no different – its fleet sales sit at 1 percent.

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,046

    I have to say one thing. It is going to take a lot to knock Toyota off it's best-selling-car in America throne.You know how the Japanese are about honor, and Mr. Toyoda is no exception.

    Kudos to Honda and Mazda for offering outstanding products, and a personal thanks to Kia for designing such a nice car for me and my family to enjoy. :)

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,576

    Drove a '13 Altima yesterday at work and it really is a good vehicle and it has exceptional mileage figures to boot. The seats were very comfortable with durable and grippy fabric...Nissan did a really god job here. I had tried out the Rogue and though nice, it just didn't have that wow factor. It was just an adequate vehicle, and I never tried the new '14 model. It's a mediocre small ute and while it gets the job done, there's just nothing special about it, at least to me. All the new Sentra's I've driven have been nice except for the brakes, the same kind like the Corolla's have with not much stopping power. But I do like the looks of the Sentra and if I was looking for another econobox, it would be on my short list.

    The Sandman :) B)

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,635

    I rented a '13 Altima and thought it was certainly better than others available for the same rate.

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,576

    After all these many years, our family has owned all the foreign brands at one time or another...Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mazda and now Hyundai. The only one we haven't tried is VW but a member of our extended family does own one as well as other family members. I'd say that over the years, they've all been great vehicles and have improved so so much. They really have set the benchmark in every segment. But with my job driving rental vehicles around the state, I have new respect for the domestic products coming out of Detroit. Heck, I almost bought a Buick this time around and if they had come down in price more, I would've bought the Encore small ute...a nice vehicle.
    Basically what I am saying here is that the domestics have closed the quality gap that the foreign brands held for so many years and buying American is as good as buying foreign. This is the real great automotive age in my opinion with every product better than the one before it!!!

    The Sandman :) B)

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,621

    @brian125 said: Ben,

    That dam Camry just wont go away. No matter what Honda does... The Camry is also about 1k cheaper to manufactor than a Accord.

    Hi Brian,

    Yes, I expect the Camry will win the sales race in 2014 too, but I think it's going to be very close. Already the Accord is selling more at the retail level than Camry, and so it's only the rental cars that keep the Camry on top at this point.

    Honda has the capacity to build about 400,000 Accords a year for the US, and my guess is that sales for calendar year 2014 will get close to that. If the Camry stays about where it is, which is also around 400k a year, it will be very close.

    As you say, the Accord is a more expensive car to manufacture. It's literally a better car in almost every way you could name. For instance, the Accord's body has more ultra-high strength steel, the Accord's engine is more advanced, the interior of the Accord is nicer, etc. And I think the Accord has a higher level of standard stuff at most trim levels. But, as a result, as you say, it costs more for Honda to build the Accord, and they can't and won't "give them away" like Toyota.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens next year....

    Ben

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,576

    I do know that the new Corolla is a better vehicle than the current Civic which seems to be a decontented model than the '06 that I had. Back then, the Civic was the better vehicle but wow, what difference a few years can make! Agree that the new Accord is a better one than the Camry though the Camry is pretty good...they're both as exciting as a refrigerator but both competent and well screwed together but have to give the Accord the nod here for looking better and driving so much better. But I would happily own both!

    The Sandman :) B)

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,621

    Sandman: Can you be specific about how the Corolla is better than the Civic? Probably there are some ways, but overall Edmunds gives the 2014 Corolla a "B," while the 2014 Civic earns an "A." In 2012, the Civic was "de-contented" in some ways, but then Honda famously reversed course and "re-contented" it for 2013. And for 2014, the Civic has been improved some more.

    In terms of the comparison between the Accord and the Camry, as you say the Accord is better looking and drives better. The Accord also has better crash ratings, faster acceleration, higher mpg, and more standard stuff. Since the Camry failed the small offset crash test, and has arguably the worst looks both inside and out, and wouldn't really put them on the same level. I'm a known Honda fan, obviously, but I try to back up what I say with facts and reasons, and I try to admit it when the Accord isn't as good as other cars. For instance, the Mazda6, and Fusion, most would say, have more exciting styling than the Accord, and the Altima has slightly higher mpg than the Accord, etc.

    Right now you can buy a Camry for less than an Accord, and so that is one pure dollars and cents advantage that Toyota has....

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 2,006
    edited January 6

    Folks are buying the Camry on past record. I dont get it at all..The style is ugly and cheap looking. . Toyota discounts there Camry so much people looking to save a buck feel real good when buying. The truth of the mater is In the facts like ben pointed out. There is a reason why the camry is in 5th/ 6th place in alot of the reviews.. With the recent gas pedal problem and failing frontal crash test i would never put my family in that sedan right now.

    I like the legacy better than the camry.

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,576

    I liked the acceleration in the Corolla much better, I thought the fabric and switchgear had a more premium feel in the Corolla. With a bad spine, I also felt the seat was more supportive in the Corolla. Having owned the last generation Civic LX, I thought that Honda made both the 2012 and 2013 Civic less satisfying of a vehicle. Am sure others will debate this with me, but I drive different vehicles for a living now and have driven most makes and models and am just giving my opinion here. obviously yours will differ but that's why they make so many choices, so we can each purchase the vehicle that best fits our needs. Last month, I purchased a new vehicle and traded in my Civic because my needs had changed and although I hated to get rid of a pristine vehicle with such low mileage, it was the right decision for me. I do know that the dealer threw my vehicle on his used lot without fixing the rear bumper cover and sold it within 2 days for a good price I am sure. I tried going the Craigslist route and got a call the day after I sold it from someone wanting to buy it. The only other calls were from a selling service who wanted me to pay them to sell it for me. I think if I had held out a few more days, I could've sold it myself but then I would've had to rent a vehicle until the end of the month. I believe in timing and such and the events that led up to me purchasing my new vehicle were meant to happen so I just went with the flow here. I am happy with what I got and have not looked back. If I had wanted to spend a bit more $, I would've gotten something else but I got the best bang for my buck with my Hyundai Tuscon actually...it checked every single box!!!

    The Sandman :) B)

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 880

    Looking for a new car in 2013 I drove the Accord, Camry, and Altima. Crossed off the Camry after one drive. Debated between Altima and Accord but finally chose Accord because it is a quieter CVT engine than Altima's. So far a terrific car.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,046

    sandman_642 said "Having owned the last generation Civic LX, I thought that Honda made both the 2012 and 2013 Civic less satisfying of a vehicle"

    No. It isn't just you. Motortrend and C/D were not thrilled with the 12 and 13 Civic either. The 2014 has different suspension and steering bushings, it looks better, and C/D liked it..(for a Civic).

    If I was going to buy a compact car, I would buy a Golf GTI. It's handling is really great, has room for the kids, great fit and finish, and I can fit my fat A** in it.

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346

    @brian125 said: Folks are buying the Camry on past record. I dont get it at all..The style is ugly and cheap looking. . Toyota discounts there Camry so much people looking to save a buck feel real good when buying. The truth of the mater is In the facts like ben pointed out. There is a reason why the camry is in 5th/ 6th place in alot of the reviews.. With the recent gas pedal problem and failing frontal crash test i would never put my family in that sedan right now.

    I like the legacy better than the camry.

    I haven't sat in a new one but I just don't think the Camry is that ugly from the outside. I don't get it..Of course it's subjective. Plus, and this one is big on my list of priorities, the Camry has been the quietest ride of the usual mid-sizers for many many MANY years. It also has the most compliant ride (not counting Passat, which manages compliance and handling better than any of the competitors...as does the Golf and Jetta in their class too)

    As for crash worthiness, while it looks like the Accord is the (recent) one to be in if you must crash, the Camry is probably still safer than your ride was less than 10 years ago, unless you drove a MB or similar. Imagine all those decades you drove and managed to survive them all.

    It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people's perceptions of yesterdays best sliced bread, becomes tomorrows inedible garbage. And when they do spring for the 'newest and greatest', how forgiving and accepting they are of all the electronic gremlins and inconsistencies/incompatibilities and other modern problems that simply did not exist in ANY vehicle a mere 10 years ago. And they invest hours/days..even WEEKS of their own private time dealing with these problems and trips back and forth to the dealer over and over again.. And many end up having to pay for their own rental when the stealership manages to shirk responsibility onto the victim...err...customer of all this new tech. The kicker..is that we pay them to be their guinea pigs.

    Many a corporate productive dollar is lost while water-cooler chat discusses why they can't get their new iWhatever paired up with the electronic-centre-console-systems-of-the-day that..while they may not have handled phone or Nav duties, did play music (imagine the concept) better 10 or so years ago.

    FWIW, I don't think newer Toyotas are as good as they were 10 years or so ago. FWIW2, the sound system in a Camry sounds better than the new Accord. Honda should be ashamed...they obviously figured..what the hell, customers want toys..ok..we'll give 'em toys..they won't know or appreciate good sound anyway.

    Anyway..I don't mean to prop up Toyota here and get on Honda's case..IMO they both have many skeletons in the closet they need to own. I will give Honda credit for the high quality steel they are using in their chassis now, (and for the first time a real effort to quiet the noise chamber they called an interior) but you're paying for it by the blatant cost cutting in other ways..like cheap amps/speakers lack of glovebox lights etc all while they confidently woo their customers with digital rearview mirrors et al.

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