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2008 Minivans

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Comments

  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    is CR's FLAGRANTLY BIASED written portion that is disgusting

    Why do you say that? Plus, CR seems to match other reviews in magazines and other online reviewers...unless you think they're all biased?
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Dased on exterior and interior styling

    1. Town & Country
    2. Honda Odyssey
    3. Dodge Caravan
    4. Toyota Sienna
    5. ALL The Rest
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    I was surprised, but CR says Subaru just passed Toyota in reliability, so maybe I shouldn't be.

    What?! Really? Well I guess Toyota owns some of Subaru now.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    October 2007 CR has excellent example of CR bias.

    The October 2007 CR Cover has headlines "MAKE YOUR CAR LAST 200,000 MILES" and has a photo of a Honda Civic on the cover (suggesting that Honda's are the cars that last).

    On page 20, the 1994 Ford Ranger pickup is the vehicle that has 488,000 miles while the beloved 1995 Honda Civic on page 21 has only 227,000 miles (NOT even HALF the miles of the 1994 Ford Ranger).

    On page 19 with NEW for 2008 there is a photo of the Honda Accord that is 4 times as large as the new Chrysler minivan (giving emphasis to their beloved Honda once more).

    CR did not even get the Horsepower ratings of the 3 Chrysler engines correct where they state the 3 V6 engines offer 170 to 240 Horsepower when the correct numbers are 175 to 251. ( Is CR afraid to print the Chrysler 4.0L has MORE power than the 244 HP of the 08 Ody LX and EX or the 241 HP of the 08 Ody EX-L and Touring?) :shades:

    The Chrysler 4.0L torque of 259 lb-ft @ 4,200 RPM is an even greater advantage over the 240 lb-ft @ 5,000 RPM of 08 Ody LX and EX or 242 lb-ft @ 4900 RPM of the 08 Ody EX-L and Touring while the Chrysler minivans have a 6 speed AT vs 5 speed Ody AT.

    CR also writes that the new vans get rear coil springs instead of the trucklike leaf springs implying that the earlier Chrysler minivans are inferior to their beloved Odyssey and then go on to write that the new springs should improve ride comfort although an independent rear suspension would have been better.

    The Grand Caravan and Town & Country have always been quieter with a smoother ride than the same year Odyssey. The Odyssey by contrast has superior handling for aggressive driving. :shades:
  • hause7hause7 Posts: 153
    heres a video of a 07 Sienna doing 0-60
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGHYx01pQ1M
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The gauges look no different from yours, hause. I thought they changed with the 3.5L.
  • hause7hause7 Posts: 153
    because he had a CE, you don't get the newer gauges unless you get the 07 or 08 LE,XLE, or Limited. i thought the same thing. But the redline is at 6,000RPM i think it was suppose to be @ 6,400. i don't know if thats an 07 for sure though.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    For the 3.5L...

    Size, liters/cu. in. 3.5 /211

    Horsepower @ rpm. 266 @ 6200

    Torque (lb-ft) @ rpm. 245 @ 4700

    If the video has a redline at 6,000, he's a fraud.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    It seems to me that the only opinion biased here is yours, against CR.

    Opinions are like rectums: everyone has one.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The "NEW" optitron gauges are standard equipment on the 2006 Sienna LE as well as the 2006 XLE and Limited. Ironically, the old type gauges of the CE are easier on the eyes since they do not reflect glare from sunlight. :shades:

    Sad the video shows the fuel and temperature gauges in addition to the speedometer and NOT the tachometer.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    PS..it's funny how some folks who consider themselves "experts" in the automotive field bash CR without even knowing their testing methods until I provided the into.

    Ohhh so one needs to know CR's test methods before they can realize how bias CR is!! Makes complete sense.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Thank you Hans!!!! There are SOOOO many countless examples of biase...every issue!!!! Subliminal images used!!!! Just recently they awarded the Tundra best tow capacity for a pickup truck....blatantly neglecting GM's top engine. One could go on for days on this!!!! CR's only value is for comparison of specs, test data etc....non subjective information.

    What I don't understand though, if Chrysler's minivans are sooooo terrible, you'd think after 25 years of building crap, no one would be buying them at all and Chrysler would be belly up by now!!????? Yet I have friends who have had nothing but Chrysler minivans since 1994 - 5 time repeat buyers? I've abused them as company vehicles, and they took it all, so I bought my own personal one when my company switched to Ford Tauruses 3 years back.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    If Chrysler were such bad minivans as some would suggest, people wouldn't buy them and as you can see by my web sight, not only do I own one, but so does my brother and sister. Mine is the white one. We bought them because of the luck my brother has had with his older Plymouth.(Parked in the street.) His is a 2001, mine a 2005 and my sister's is a 2006.

    She comes out every year (Arizona) with her family and our younger brother from Ohio. It's a 2,000 trip and none have them complained of the middle seats being uncomfortable.

    Stow-N-Go is a great feature. As you can also see in my photos. I can get just about everything I want in my van and don't need to take out the seats. I will have mine three years next month. It has auto everything on it and I haven't had a thing go wrong with it. Brother has only replaced the brakes and a soft plug on his older Plymouth.

    Notice I am able to get not only an electric wheel chair in it, but also an electric scooter and my brother too. Try doing that with another minivan as easily as that.
    These vans can carry almost anything and do it well. And they are dependable. If not, we wouldn't have all bought them.

    http://www.carspace.com/marine2/Albums/marine2%27s%20Album/

    Click on the picture to make them bigger so you can get a good view of what they can do. I usually always keep the passenger's middle seat stowed as it make it very easy to carry things through the side door.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    25 years of building crap, no one would be buying them at all and Chrysler would be belly up by now!!?????

    Haven't paid much attention the news lately, have you?

    Actually, I don't think the Chrysler minivans are crap. I just think that they're not as good as the Toyota and the Honda. Until this year, they were also CHEAPER than the Toyota and the Honda. You got what you paid for, but that was fine for many people. The last generation Chrysler twins were antiquated compared to the competition, and as a result Chrysler had to apply huge discounts to move them. As I said, in 2006 my father bought a DGC with a $30000 sticker for $21. For HIM, that was a good purchase.

    Now, the new vans are much more up to date. The 4.0 V6 is competitive with the rest of the class, as is the transmission. The safety features are also. That's a very good thing. The catch, though, is that right now prices are up...they're going to try to sell these without huge rebates and dealer discounts.

    Dollar for dollar, I still don't think they can compete. I think they'll end up applying big discounts to these vans, too, in order to move them. From a quality standpoint, I still don't think they measure up to Toyota and Honda.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Now, the new vans are much more up to date. The 4.0 V6 is competitive with the rest of the class, as is the transmission. The safety features are also. That's a very good thing. The catch, though, is that right now prices are up...they're going to try to sell these without huge rebates and dealer discounts.

    Dollar for dollar, I still don't think they can compete. I think they'll end up applying big discounts to these vans, too, in order to move them. From a quality standpoint, I still don't think they measure up to Toyota and Honda.


    I'd say a new V6 and 6 speed auto are more than "competitive" but class leading, Toss in many features not even available at any price like Stow N Go, Swivel N Go, Autostick, LED lighting, entertainment and audio options, keyless start, heated 2nd row seats, YES protection for carpet/seats, illuminated cup holders, Sat TV, then add in the best feartures from other minivans like power 3rd row seats, power sliding door windows, adjustable pedals, HID headlights...you have the best of everything. Don't forget about the best warranty in the industry.

    Currently there's a $1000 rebate on the new minivans, build one online and it's automatically deducted. Now think back where the Odyssey came out and the dealer markups. Now many of the imports are offering low financing and "dealer incentives" to be competitive. Most dealers don't/won't tell you about their incentives, you need to consult with Automotive News to find out. I'm sure Chrysler will discount more, it's just standard practice for the domestics, but the vans have only been on the market for 6 weeks roughly?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'd say a new V6 and 6 speed auto are more than "competitive" but class leading,

    Let's see, lower economy and less accelerative abilities than the Sienna. I'm going to say not class-leading, but certainly competitive.

    Currently there's a $1000 rebate on the new minivans, ... but the vans have only been on the market for 6 weeks roughly?

    Now think back where the Odyssey came out and the dealer markups


    The facts you state don't do much other than indicate demand, which apparently outpaced supply for the Honda and isn't the case for the DCX.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168

    Let's see, lower economy and less accelerative abilities than the Sienna. I'm going to say not class-leading, but certainly competitive.


    You're free to think what you want but overall powertrain is class leading. 1 mpg is within tolerance for all minivans, and so is a few 10ths of second in acceleration. I doubt cross shoppers for both would be too concerned. Nice having to see a Honda guy use Toyota stats to make a point :)

    I wonder when Honda will bring out a newer tranny. The new MDX is making due with 5 spd and that's a redesigned vehicle, and usually the basis for Ody, Pilot and Ridgeline hardware.

    Seeing that the imports are even offering financing and incentives, shows Chrysler is competing quite well, otherwise, why have them??? Someone must be worried in the import HQs.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    Everybody is in trouble financially these days. The housing/finance sector got hammered and lots of people got repos's etc. One would expect the entry level minivan sales to be low. That said both Honda and Chrysler offer rebates on their minis. One would expect Chryslers to be great on their 2007's because it is a major model revision which automatically dates the buyers van. They must rebate high. Honda I believe just upped their hidden dealer incentives from $2000 to $2500. Overproduction and weak market have pushed everybodys sales down. Will it pick up? Probably not for a while.

    One can always expect the rebates to increase on the model over time. The problem is that as you wait, you start to hear about what will be new on the next years model, and want the 09 model. Then you wait for the rebates on them too. And on goes the process until you look back and see that those kids you bought the minivan for are all grown up, and you missed the time you could have enjoyed with them in a minivan.

    Rebates on Chryslers change with location. Mine was $1500. I bought now because we plan to travel alot over X-mas and the new playground 08 minivan with cushy suspension is worth the possible savings I might have had I waited.
  • carcom2carcom2 Posts: 212
    Has anyone driven the T&C or DC with just the 2nd row windows down?

    I tried doing that with the Honda Od. and thought my eardrums would explode. It was impossible to drive with just the 2nd row windows down. Had to crack open a front row window to get rid of the buffeting effect - the worse I've ever experienced. Extremely bad (and I'm not at all exagerating). The Honda 3rd row windows do not open - what a mistake. It may have been the 2007 model but don't think the styling changed for 2008 to make a difference. I mentioned that to the Honda salesman at the car show and he said his Honda Pilot does the same awful thing.
    So for those of you with passengers that like the second row windows down - I'ld like to hear what you've experienced.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Has anyone driven the T&C or DC with just the 2nd row windows down?

    I never saw the attraction but then I don't have children. I've always hated driving around with windows down because of the buffeting/noise. I've found I get good air flow and less noise with sunroof and rear windows vented.

    I do have a friend who had a Mazda minivan. He was driving thru a construction zone, and his dog jumped thru the window and was struck by another car and killed. Be careful!!!
  • We got our first Odyssey back in 1999. We replaced it with a 2006 Odyssey last August. We looked at the Sienna, but my wife, the primary driver, wanted to stay with Honda. For the fourth year, 2002, Honda added more power to the Odyssey. With 2008 being the fourth year for this model, I was hoping for more power. Acura now has a 3.7L V-6 in their SUV. Might Honda tranplant this into the Odyssey for 2009? I would also appreciate a 6 speed transmission, with the 3-4-6 setup. Hopefully Honda will hear that we would appreciate getting as many miles out of every gallon of fuel and enough power to stay out of trouble and/or pull the WVA mountains without racing the engine. What might Honda have in store for us in 2009?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Acura now has a 3.7L V-6 in their SUV. Might Honda tranplant this into the Odyssey for 2009?

    I'd bet you money that it WILL NOT HAPPEN. Acura is the flagship marque of the Honda line. Honda would shoot itself in the foot to offer the same engine that is exclusive to its most expensive ($41k-$47k) SUV in the plebian mommy-mobile mini in the lineup ($25k+).
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I'd bet you money that it WILL NOT HAPPEN. Acura is the flagship marque of the Honda line. Honda would shoot itself in the foot to offer the same engine that is exclusive to its most expensive ($41k-$47k) SUV in the plebian mommy-mobile mini in the lineup ($25k+).

    I agree, they may bump hp to 260hp or something, but they'd never give Honda the same hp as an MDX. Besides, hp in 250 range should be acceptable for all but the most lead footed amongst us, especially when you consider what gas prices are doing.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    There are NO incentives on the 2008 Odyssey. There was a $2,000 factory to dealer incentive on the 2007 models.

    The 2008 Odyssey does have some major changes such as the second generation VCM engine that can now turn off 2 or 3 cylinders. There is standard on certain models a rear view mirror backup camera.

    I am certain if Honda or Toyota felt a 20 speed AT was required it would be sold. Look at the 8 speed in the Lexus.

    You can say what you will (and you will) about Chrysler's build quality and fit and finish but the facts do not support you.

    Blather on about how great your van is but I'll tell you my Grand Caravan (obtained through Owner's Arbitration with Chrysler because of another lemon) started falling apart soon after it left the showroom. My Odyssey has 37,000 trouble free miles so far and has been the most reliable car I have owned since I started buying cars n 1965.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    You can say what you will (and you will) about Chrysler's build quality and fit and finish but the facts do not support you.

    Blather on about how great your van is but I'll tell you my Grand Caravan (obtained through Owner's Arbitration with Chrysler because of another lemon) started falling apart soon after it left the showroom. My Odyssey has 37,000 trouble free miles so far and has been the most reliable car I have owned since I started buying cars n 1965.


    Well the fact that there are three Dodge minivans in our family say they must be pretty reliable or we wouldn't buy them. My brother traded that 2001, I showed in those pictures, in for a 2007, and only put brakes and a soft plug in the old one. Mine is a 2005 with power everything and nothing has gone wrong in three years (next month) of owning it. Sis has had nothing go wrong with her 2006 and she has made two trips out here in Arizona from Ohio with it already.(With those uncomfortable seats you guys say it's got.)

    There is no minivan on the market besides Dodge/Chrysler that is so versatile and has as much storage in it.

    I was a truck owner before buying my first minivan. Stow-N-Go is the reason I got rid of my truck. I can carry more, store more and get better mileage than I could with my truck. And have all the conveniences of a luxury car with soft power seats, power lift gate and power side doors. Three way A/C, cruise control, computer that gives me directions, opens my garage door, tells me the temp and fuel economy and I am ready in a minutes notice to haul either seven passengers or a chest of drawers I picked up at park and swap, without going home and taking seats out.

    I love my van and if you like Toyota or Honda, go for it. They are both excellent people movers. But they can't do what I bought my minivan to do.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    Then be happy and quit ripping on everybody else's different choice. We aren't less educated, less intelligent, less experienced, less well researched, or foolishly loyal. Our tastes, experiences, observations, needs and wants led us to chose differently.

    I'm looking forward to receiving my new 08 T&C and so are my kids. Have a long trip planned for X-mas, a ski trip planned in Jan, and a long trip planned with the boy scouts in Feb. If my experience with this T&C is as excellent as my last I couldn't ask for anything else. May you have the same experience as me.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Does the DGC or CTC have Stability Control standard now? Seems like I'd want that on a ski trip!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    There are NO incentives on the 2008 Odyssey. There was a $2,000 factory to dealer incentive on the 2007 models.

    If you look at Honda's website, there's special lease deals on the 2008s, special financing on the 2007s, and who knows what dealer incentives are on them. I haven't seen a Automotive News in a few weeks, which is a good source for everyone's rebates, incentives etc...(very rear of mag)....Anyone looking for a minivan should check it out, they're in all Borders and Barnes and Noble book stores.

    The 2008 Odyssey does have some major changes such as the second generation VCM engine that can now turn off 2 or 3 cylinders. There is standard on certain models a rear view mirror backup camera.

    Turning off 2 or 3 cylinders is more of a programming change in the engine control module, not really that major. I've heard the "mirror backup cameras" aren't the better design because the viewing screen in very small and if you use reading glasses, good luck tilting your head up enough to see image also.

    I am certain if Honda or Toyota felt a 20 speed AT was required it would be sold. Look at the 8 speed in the Lexus. Any manufacturer would, if the market wanted it. Look at how the Big three are quickly incorporating 6 spds....SUVs, Minivans, Cars....

    You can say what you will (and you will) about Chrysler's build quality and fit and finish but the facts do not support you. The personal experience of myself, my family and friends do support me, I don't need little black dots to sleep at nights, and I don't need to worry about other's OEM's quality like you seem to be.

    Blather on about how great your van is but I'll tell you my Grand Caravan (obtained through Owner's Arbitration with Chrysler because of another lemon) started falling apart soon after it left the showroom.

    Yeah, I'm sure as soon as you drove off the lot the engine blew up, tranny locked up and it was terrible, and these things NEVER happen to any other brand, especially not Honda.

    My Odyssey has 37,000 trouble free miles so far and has been the most reliable car I have owned since I started buying cars n 1965.

    Good for you! My 2005 Caravan with 22k has been completely trouble free also, my coworker has a 2003 with 114k trouble free miles on it - a company vehicle, base 3.3 that he abuses. I've had a number of base Caravan for company cars that I've racked up 80k-90k miles on.....trouble free except for a bad gas strut. I have friends back in PA, on their 5th generation minivan from Chrysler, never any major problems. I love people who get a lemon and forever are tainted, then the blinders go on and that's it - no more brand A. I'll probably be in market this coming summer for something new. I'll look at all three minivans, but also GM's CUVs with their 4500lb tow capacity which is important to me.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Does the DGC or CTC have Stability Control standard now? Seems like I'd want that on a ski trip!

    LOL, you are so funny, like you'd ever even test drive one!! But yes, Stability Control with Brake assist and traction control is standard across all Chrysler minivans. If I were going on a ski trip, I'd want AWD with stability control.
This discussion has been closed.