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2008 Minivans

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Comments

  • siennamisiennami Posts: 116
    If you want to see an interesting review, check out the Insurance Institute for Safety's ratings for minivans. How about Dodge/Chrysler and Toyota didn't make the big 3? Here's how the ratings fell: 1) Honda Odyssey, 2)Hyundai Entourage, 3)Kia Sedona

    'Course you can take that for what it's worth..... I'm still trying to figure out what the poster, can't remember who it was means by the Sienna's "floaty" ride. Someday I'm going to test drive that pesty Odyssey and figure out what the heck all the hype is about! If you look in my church's parking lot, you will see more Siennas than any other van. It is true outside of the parking lot, also. Certainly that's unscientific. I am a 1GR Sienna owner(until someone stole mine),and I'm a 2GR owner... and truth be told, I'd probably buy another one. I know what I like, and D/C, and Honda just ain't it! :P
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    I believe "thegraduate" coined the phrase to describe the Sienna ride which is an accurate description of the Sienna....compared to my 2002 T&C LX that is not as affected by cross winds as is my 2006 Sienna LE.

    Don't drive the Odyssey. IF you do, you won't like your Sienna as well as you now do unless you like to drag race and love the more up-scale front door panels of the Sienna. :shades:
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    Or you could just check the Odyssey prices paid forum right here on Edmunds and you'll see a number of deals similar to mine. I did the best, but there's a gentleman just a few days before me that paid a few hundred more than I did for an EX-L.

    You'll be surprised on the 2007 Ody prices. There's a $2500 rebate on them right now, not to mention major dealer discounts. My timing was very good. I'm sure that when you were shopping when you got the Sienna, the deal was nowhere near as good. But, as they say, timing is everything.

    Doc fees vary greatly. Honda dealers are no different than any others--some charge ridiculous amounts. I've seen it everywhere---around here, there are some major "chains" like Rosenthal, Ourisman, Pohanka, Koons, that sell all different brands and they all have the same doc fees.

    I'm fortunate to be able to buy in Maryland (though I live in VA) where there is a state law limiting doc fees to $100.

    We liked the Sienna too. I would have no qualms about buying one. But the deal was much better on the Ody, and we preferred the driving characteristics and plus one seat of the Ody better. A major detriment for me with the Sienna is the packaging--I had been serious about buying one, it would have been very hard to find one packaged how I wanted.

    And...this is completely subjective...but we liked the look of the Ody the best of the minivans.

    You'll find my complete deal on that forum. Please do show it to your Honda dealer. He'll probably tell you I did very well, but he'd be able to offer you something in that ballpark. I had a number of dealers at $500 more than what I ended up paying.

    Hey...bring your Sienna over to CarMax and trade for an Ody. ;)

    (PS--the Sienna ride is floaty. It depends on what you like, its not neccesarily a bad thing. I just think the steering is mushy and inprecise which bothers me more than the ride.)

    (PSS--Siennami...you say you know what you like, and the "Odyssey ain't it." Above that, you stated that "someday I'll have to test drive that pesky Odyssey..."

    How can you be so definitive that you don't like the Odyssey if you've never driven it? If you like your Sienna that's great, but at least drive both of them before you declare a preference for one over the other. As a happy 07 Camry owner I was leaning toward the Sienna going into this, but driving the vans really changed my mind.)
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    $16,000 for a 3 year old DCX mini? I think not. The ads are full of these here in San Antonio for between $9,000 - $11,000. Dealers will sell a same model year used unit originally stickered for $25,000 for $13,000.

    Did you really mean an Odyssey or Sienna?
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Still the best indicator of what consumers think is sales - plain and simple. Chrysler minivan sales up 25% on new 08s, with over 11 million sold over 25 years, and the imports are resorting to special deals. That's a really simple indicator without having to resort to counting black dots, funky resale percentages, quibbling over gimmicks or bashing other brands.

    Okay, here are the FACTS from your November 24th "Detroit News": "Chrysler LLC's recent sales figures appear to prove that minivan demand is not dead even though rivals have scrapped their entries in the segment.

    Consumers and dealers are giving thumbs up to Chrysler's new family haulers. In October, the first full month of sales of the redesigned Chrysler Town & Country and the Dodge Grand Caravan, sales were up 4.8 percent over the same month last year -- in a market segment that has shrunk 6.5 percent year-over-year.

    Among manufacturers offering a minivan in their 2008 line-up, Honda was the only other to show growth in the segment, with a 30 percent increase over October last year. Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp. have dropped minivans from their offerings."

    "The Caravan is in danger of losing its title of best-selling minivan to the Honda Odyssey, which through 10 months this year has sold 3,000 more units. Libby said buyers should look for some Caravan incentives yet this year as the automaker strives to retain its title.".

    Where did you come up with your numbers?

    The bolding was not in the DN article but added by me to aid in making my point..
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    And if CR has black dots for a car for certain categories and with my same car I do not have those problems to rate it a black dot, I must be one of the few lucky ones, right?

    No...a black circle doesn't mean that everyone, or even most people will have a particular problem, but only that the probability of this problems will be higher than if there was a red circle. I'm not a big fan of CRs circle ratings. I wish there would be more details on the percentages of problems, but the circle rating isn't a bad way of comparing different vehicles.

    The advantage with professional reviews is that they drive a lot of different vehicles, they haven't paid for the vehicles, so there's no bias based on the fact that they just forked over many thousands on something, and they're not paid by the manufacturer.
  • Got several quotes from local dealers. The best now is:

    2008 EX 26636.00
    (This price includes the Destination & Handling Fee. Tax, title, license, document fee, and accessories are additional.)
    2007 EX $23651.00 plus fees

    Is the price good enough? Do I get another $2500 for 2007 EX if I buy before end of the month?

    Thanks a million!
  • carcom2carcom2 Posts: 212
    Maybe you didn't leave this information out intentionally, but it would have been better to include this also:

    The Town & Country drove the automaker's minivan growth last month, outselling the Caravan by about 1,000 vehicles. Town & Country sales grew 26 percent from October of last year, while Grand Caravan sales dipped 11.6 percent, according to sales figures from Autodata Corp.

    Part of that dip can be attributed to Chrysler discontinuing in 2008 its less expensive Caravan model, Libby said. That cuts out buyers looking for an entry-level van priced between $16,000 and $21,000.

    "The bolding was not in the DN article but added by me to aid in making my point" that you failed to include.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    What's the invoice price on those two vehicles?

    I'm sure the '07 price includes the $2500. My gut, without knowing the exact numbers, is that you can do better on the '07.

    For all the R&D and marketing Chrysler put into those vans, a single digit increase in sales is not very impressive. The TC number is good, at least. But the buyers looking for entry level vans are moving to....what?

    I'd be curious to see what percentage of those sales are fleet. I'm sure its a smaller percent than in 2007, but its multiple times more than the competition, save for the Hyundai.
  • carcom2carcom2 Posts: 212
    "We went to church tonight just as usual. Just for fun, I took inventory of what i saw in the parking lot. I was looking for current gen Ody's, current gen Sienna's and last gen DCS/CTC (not fair to look for the 08 and didn't see any). I saw 3 last gen Chrysler minivans, 5 Sienna's, and 11 current gen Ody's not including mine"

    OK - so you almost made my point more clear - more current gen. Ody's on the road today than prev. gen. on the road. Where are all the 10 yr old Ody's?
  • carcom2carcom2 Posts: 212
    "I mean...what are you talking about? The first-gen Ody was not really even a minivan. The second gen was and was successful. Where I live, I see them on the road every single day"

    What do you mean? Wasn't really a minivan? What would you call it? What did Honda call it? You could seat 7 in it. Why - because it didn't have sliding doors? You see what yr. Ody's on the road every day?

    Here's something interesting: Are these the facts?:

    "Honda Odyssey
    The Odyssey minivan debuted in 1995. The first generation Odyssey was powered by a four-cylinder engine. It also was the first in its class of vehicles whose doors could be swung open like a car. It first came in the LX and EX versions. The LX version sat seven passengers, with independent front seats, a bench seat in the middle that seats three and a rear seat that also seats three. In 1998, the engine was redesigned to a 2.3 Liter VTEC engine. Despite the engine change, the market and most customers felt that its engine was not very powerful and as a result its sales suffered. The Odyssey was bought and used by the ISUZU Company for its collection of vehicles and renamed the OASIS.

    The Second generation Odyssey hit the roads in 1999. The new model was bigger in size than its predecessor was. The back doors of the newly redesigned minivan slid open or closed, unlike the swing open fashion of the earlier version. It was powered by a six cylinder engine and an automatic four gear transmission. It was the first minivan to offer a seat that could be folded into the floor. In 2000, the vehicle got a navigation system that was linked to a Honda satellite. In 2002, it was redesigned with a five gear automatic transmission, airbags on the sides and disc brakes at the back. The transmission of the second generation Odyssey had some problems and the company changed the transmission at no charge to their customers. Honda also extended the vehicle warranty to 100,000 miles or 7 years, whichever came first.

    Honda debuted the third generation Odyssey in 2005. The weight and width of the Honda Odyssey was greater than its predecessor. The engine of the new Odyssey was increased and it came in four models; LX, EX, EX-L, and Touring. The new Odyssey had glove boxes for both driver and the passenger sitting in the front seat. The transmission was now fitted to the floor unlike the earlier version where it was fixed to the Steering wheel. "
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    I did not exclude anything. I did not break out the two Chrysler LLC minivans but used the TOTAL percentage of the corporate twins.

    I stated printed facts, not my opinion.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Unlike what has been posted here there are NO rebates on 2007 Odysseys. There is factory to dealer cash. There are $1,500 rebates already on the 2008 Chrysler LLC models.

    Source: MSN Autos
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    There were plenty of previous gen Ody's---and Sienna's in my church parking lot.

    I just didn't count them. I wanted a fair comparison between the most current generation of vehicles.

    I see a ton of 1999+ Ody's. I don't see the pre-99 ones except in NYC (taxi's). If your point is that there are more pre-1999 Chrysler minivans than Honda's, then I happily concede. Post 99, around here, you'll see more Odysseys. In Detroit, no way. So what? MY point was that the number of vehicles sold really doesn't mean much.

    Actually, I don't quite get what your point is...explain.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Unlike what has been posted here there are NO rebates on 2007 Odysseys. There is factory to dealer cash. There are $1,500 rebates already on the 2008 Chrysler LLC models.

    I don't think I saw a single post stating "rebates".....there's dealers incentives which are kept private from public unless you have a decent dealer (yeah RIGHT!!). That's why it's imperative that anyone in market check out the weekly "Automotive News"....in the back they list customer and dealer incentives.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Can't recall many people talking about how much they still like their 10 yr. old Od. Not many on the road. Yet many 10 yr. old, unreliable, piece of junk GC/T&C still going strong and people still having good luck with them like I am with my 1997 GC Sport.

    I LOVE my 45 year old POC......63 Corvair Monza Coupe!!! I don't know how reliable it is, but with 2300 original miles (sat in museum for decades) it shouldn't be too bad.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I mean...what are you talking about? The first-gen Ody was not really even a minivan. The second gen was and was successful. Where I live, I see them on the road every single day.

    Funny how long it took GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota to get the formula down.....over a decade. Truck based from GM/Ford, tall wagon from Honda and weird midengine from Toyota.

    Keep the reviews and dubious resale....I'll take real people over some name in a magazine, I'll take American made and American profit center over imports, I'll take the best warranty, most flexible options, seating configs/storage, and best value anyday.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    "The Caravan is in danger of losing its title of best-selling minivan to the Honda Odyssey, which through 10 months this year has sold 3,000 more units. Libby said buyers should look for some Caravan incentives yet this year as the automaker strives to retain its title.".

    I got a kick watching a Honda commercial the other night proclaiming "Best Selling Minivan" for the Ody........in fine print it stated a specific time period....like 6 months I think. Normally you would use an entire model year, not cherry pick a time period. What's next? Honda bundling MDX, Pilot, Ridgeline numbers into the mix since they're all the same basic platform?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    and best value anyday.

    That's right. Thanks for the reminder that we all share the same idea of value. Sheesh, I can't believe I had forgotten that. :sick:

    Buy what's best for YOU, that doesn't make it the best value to someone else.

    Say you could buy Car A for $30,000 or Car B for $25,000. You really like Car A and dislike Car B. Both cars accomplish nearly the same thing, but you don't like Car B for personal reasons (styling, handling, the way the door ajar chime sounds, whatever). Which is the better buy?

    If one can afford it, why wouldn't they spend more money on a vehicle they are satisfied with? To you, it looks like wasted money, because you are satisfied with B. To those dissatisfied with B, they'd be spending $25k for something they dislike; in other words, they'd be making a poor value decision.

    I'm glad you liked the less expensive choice, that's just a bonus of cash in your pocket. For others, having the car that satisfies them more is worth more than the money they'd get from getting their "Car B."
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    No...a black circle doesn't mean that everyone, or even most people will have a particular problem, but only that the probability of this problems will be higher than if there was a red circle. I'm not a big fan of CRs circle ratings. I wish there would be more details on the percentages of problems, but the circle rating isn't a bad way of comparing different vehicles.

    Probability based on 100 respondents to their 20 page survey.

    The advantage with professional reviews is that they drive a lot of different vehicles, they haven't paid for the vehicles, so there's no bias based on the fact that they just forked over many thousands on something, and they're not paid by the manufacturer.

    LOL, "Here Mr Auto Writer, here's a brand new Porche 911, fully loaded, everything paid for, including your free trip to CA for the debut party and highway 1 test drive, your B&B accomodations. Ohh you can keep it for a year too, use it on vacation but if you want another one, you better write an fair, objective report on it". Like all people, writers have a bias.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    That's right. Thanks for the reminder that we all share the same idea of value. Sheesh, I can't believe I had forgotten that.

    Opps, Sorry......but all the previous items stand i.e.. best warranty, flexibility in options and seating configs.....
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    in options and seating configs.....

    If you haul a lot of cargo, yep. If you are like my great aunt and take my grandmother, me, and my parents a lot of places and don't want to scoot to the back row, the Odyssey offers 5-passenger seating in the first two rows. The DCX does not. For driving around Birmingham this weekend while my folks were in town, we did this with no problem.

    So, again, best flexibility for you, not for everyone.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    If you haul a lot of cargo, yep. If you are like my great aunt and take my grandmother, me, and my parents a lot of places and don't want to scoot to the back row, the Odyssey offers 5-passenger seating in the first two rows. The DCX does not. For driving around Birmingham this weekend while my folks were in town, we did this with no problem.

    As I've conceded....8 passenger seating is about it. If you have specific needs, you usually think of it prior to buying a vehicle. You don't buy a Focus hoping to pull your 5000lb camper with it.

    I think I used "MOST Flexible options and seating configs".....

    Maybe your priority is flexible interior for camping, yard sales or a business, where one day you're carrying cases of wine, the next family - Chrysler (unless you like removing and installing seats). Maybe you're a growing family with mulitple child seats to move from vehicle to vehicle, no other minivans offers built in booster seats - Chrysler. Maybe comfort is priority, and you like heated seats for front and middle passengers - Chrysler. Maybe easy access in and out of minvan, perhaps seats the swivel 90 degrees - Chrysler. Maybe your family is involved in kids soccer and football and you tailgate - Chrysler

    As for options..... Maybe you live in an extreme hot or cold climate, remote start is desireable - Chrysler. Maybe you're elderly and on a budget, you have problems opening and closing the rear hatch. You can only get that on a $40 Ody Touring....Ouch. Chrysler offers it as an option on all but the most base minivans. Same with adjustable pedals. Maybe driving at night is a concern....you like auto dimming interior and exterior mirrors, pin spot LED lighting etc... - Chrysler. A buyer has the most flexibility in customizing their minvans with a Chrysler.....kinda hard to dispute it, unless one wants to quibble with seat comfort or toe space.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think I used "MOST Flexible options and seating configs".....

    It sounds like I'm nit-picking, but most flexible isn't always "best" as you implied in the post I replied to. Chrysler does have the most options, that's for sure. And that's a point in their favor for LOTS of people. I'm not debating that, as Chrysler really rules in that department.

    You can only get that on a $40 Ody Touring.

    I wish an Odyssey Touring only cost forty bucks! :) I find it interesting that Honda made NAV and RES standard on the Touring, eliminating the lower-cost Touring options. used to, you could get a Touring Odyssey about the same price as an EX-L with NAV and RES. That's another point away from the Odyssey.

    I never intended to dispute Chrysler's superior option packaging (or rather, their lack therof). They win in that respect.

    Chrysler does drop off in one area of packaging though. In the Toyota, having a smooth, multivalve, competitive engine with good hp costs $24k or so MSRP. In Honda, that's $25k or $26k. In a Chrysler, that option costs $36k MSRP. With an engine being what actually keeps an automobile from being a buggy, I'd say that's a pretty big detriment.

    That raises a question... why has horsepower gone the wrong direction in the 3.8L from Chrysler? It started at 215. After corrections from the SAE, it dropped by 10 to 205 (a similar drop to the Odyssey). Now it is below 200hp. In a 4600lb vehicle, that doesn't seem like very much, especially when compared to modern competition.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Go back and search for "rebates" and you will come up with a bunch of mentions.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    An easy way to end this "mine is worth more than yours" is to go to the Carmax web site and look at the values of a 2006 Odyssey LX and a 2006 Grand Caravan SXT. The Honda's resale value on that site is $11,000 more. Even if the GC sold for about $3,000 less, the Honda is still worth $8,000 more after two years and a whole lot more 3+ years down the road.

    Carmax does not have the least expensive used cars but it is indicative of the pricing difference.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Chrysler IS FAR AHEAD of Honda and Toyota in offering a feature that was formerly had on only LUXURY vehicles: separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger available on ALL but the least expensive GC or T&C.

    To get this desireable feature one has to get the Ody EX (MSRP $ 29,290) or a Sienna XLE (MSRP well above $30,000).

    Each manufacturer places emphasis on different features. For my wife and myself, individual temperature comfort is more important than rapid acceleration. :shades:
  • hause7hause7 Posts: 153
    You can get a Sienna XLE with the dvd package for $29,500 in my area. A fully loaded limited is $35,000.
  • hause7hause7 Posts: 153
    we had an 05 T&C and it was quiet but our 04 Sienna Limited is quieter.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Your information is inaccurate. The MSRP for the T&C Touring containing the tri-zone HVAC is $28,430. Presently Chrysler LLC is offering a $1,000 "discount".

    The MSRP for the Odyssey EX with tri-zone HVAC is $28,960. For this price you also get a tilt and telescoping steering column and daytime running lights.

    The above information was taken from each vehicle's official website.

    Do we continue this discussion with a list of every feature? Can't we just say each van has its own individual features?
This discussion has been closed.