Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





2008 Minivans

1252628303141

Comments

  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    In 2002, it was redesigned with a five gear automatic transmission,

    Just to quibble here..... This wasn't a true five speed auto, but a 4 speed with overdrive, but Honda marketed as such. The real 5 spd came in 2005 MY with the current redesign. I remember reading this in some auto engineering rags we get at the office.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    To get this desireable feature one has to get the Ody EX (MSRP $ 29,290) or a Sienna XLE (MSRP well above $30,000).

    What I found odd looking at an ody last week (leftover Touring and O8 EX-L) was something as simple as "miles to empty" readout on driver display isn't standard on lessor non touring models. This is programming of software, it's free if you design it properly, same with battery saver - a nickel capacitor and resistor circuit....something domestics provide without thinking, it's a giveme!!
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    When it comes to purchase price, I'd say that both the Odyssey and Sienna will cost more than the T&C by a few thousand because of the generally higher domestic incentives, plus the laws of supply and demand. And the depreciation is more for the T&C too. If I were to buy a T&C, I'd never buy new because you could buy a one year old model at a huge discount. The Odyssey/Sienna hold their value better, so for those I'd buy new. To me, buying a T&C new and trading it in every 3-5 years would be financially crazy. There are a lot of ways to look at vehicle price beyond the option list.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Very well said. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, same model year CLLC vans sell used for $11,000 - $12,000 here in San Antonio. These vans cost $23,000 - $25,000 new a few months before. Unlike other companies, the CLLC "Lifetime Warranty" is NOT transferable to a new owner.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    I agree with that logic...and if you can get a Odyssey or Sienna at a big, Chrysler-esque discount, like you can right now with the Honda, so much the better. My Ody EX-L carried a $6996 discount.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Would you mind telling us the difference?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Very good point, and furthermore someone just got a quote for an Ody EX at $23k.

    I can't believe the $25,294 for an EX-L, that's Grand Theft Auto! Great deal!

    In May I was quoted $29,052 for the same van! :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Someone asked earlier, so I'll answer.

    For me, the answer is ALL THE TIME, because when you can sit 3 across in the middle row, comfortably as you can in the Sienna, you often don't need the 3rd row.

    So noone is punished and thrown in the dungeon (i.e. 3rd row), instead they can all sit side-by-side in the 2nd row, with front row seats to the DVD movie.

    Access is easier to the middle of the 2nd row than it is to the 3rd row, also, so you load and unload much quicker. My kids can have the nanny sit next to them, or one friend can come along.

    If they bring 2 friends, no problem, in that case we sit 2+2+2, and again, each of my 2 kids sits right next to their friend. The middle seat folds flat into a table, and that clears the view for the movie for viewers in the 3rd row.

    This way you NEVER end up with one kid having to sit alone.

    Perfect. Ideal. No compromising.

    With 2 seats in the middle row you can do Paper-Rock-Scissors and the loser has to sit in the back.

    The Ody can seat 8 in a pinch, but the Sienna's seat is much wider. Not just the middle seat itself, but also the outward seats are set farther apart.

    I haven't measured, but the Sienna's cargo area is about 4" wider than the Ody's, and I bet the 2nd row seats on the 8 seat model have at least the same advantage - i.e. at least 4" wider in total than the Ody's 2nd row.

    I'll measure next time I see an Ody in person. Measure from the total seat width if you own an Ody, if you feel up to it.

    This is not a deal-killer by any means, but if you have 3 kids or carry 5 people often the Sienna 8 passenger model is the easiest way to do it. :shades:
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    Seems everybody has a crystal ball when it comes to predicting the future value of vans. But of course everything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Perhaps somebody with personal experience will show how wrong this can be.

    Originally purchased a 2000 T&C LXI in June 2000. Had a rebate plus dealer came down for $23500. In June 2000 the Odyssey was HOT. The base model was selling for 26500. I wanted the base model because 2 friends who owned the upper model were having problems with the power sliding doors. Even though my LXI definitely had more goodies on it the only difference I will note that was available on the Odyssey was leather which cost $28500. My decision was between a better equipped leather LXI for 23500 or a leather LX Odyssey for $28500.

    So in 2000 I saved $5000. My vehicle has had minimal repair. Other than maintainance I had 1 repair, a fuel pump at 167,000 for $550. Now at 172K, the difference between the 2 is roughly $1000 according to KBB. I am roughly $3500 ahead -- if and only if the Odyssey had required zero repairs which, given the history of its transmissions, seems unlikely.

    CR's predicted the reliabilty of the Chrysler as vastly inferior to the Odyssey. Guess who was wrong? Who in the heck could possibly predict the reliabilty of a new model vehicle for a company known for making small cars?

    Quit predicting the future. Years ago who would have predicted $2500 rebates for Odysseys either? A $2500 rebate on an Odyssey isn't bad, but I believe any 2007 T&C offers a $5000 dealer incentive right now. In general I believe a similarly equipped 07 T&C will be a couple thousand less than the Odyssey which definitely is reflected in resale numbers -- because they paid less in the first place. And these newer rebates for Odysseys will effect their future resale value too.

    The majority of the media is Liberals. Consumer Reports seems to be no different and will recommend companies who seems to support typical the Liberal agenda. Do your own observations.

    My $3500 savings from years ago is still paying off. Need to replace 2 tires and notced I had a full sized unused Michelin OE spare. Continues to save me $$ as I need to buy only 1 now.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    And if 4 kids all bring friends -- an Econoline would have been better.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Your sample size of one (1) is too small to be scientifically significant.

    CR uses much larger sample sizes.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    My decision was between a better equipped leather LXI for 23500 or a leather LX Odyssey for $28500.

    Wow, buying from a dealer who was putting aftermarket leather in their vehicles, no wonder the price was so astronomical. They can charge a lot more than an auto manufacturer would for leather. I wouldn't have used that Honda dealer.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    CR uses much larger sample sizes.

    yeah probably 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Even if it is, that's 100 times bigger than Mary's sample.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsb.asp?Search=NEW&ID=C358762&photo=CH07RSY- S53&loc=LFC&mall=GA&year=2007&mk_code=CH

    Here's a 2007 T&C Limited for $29k.

    The T&C Limited isn't much better equpped than the Ody EX-L for 2007, so no, the T&C isn't several thousand cheaper.

    But you're missing the larger point---its an inferior vehicle, and I don't see how any with a straight face could argue otherwse when comparing the current gen Ody vs. the previous gen Chrysler twins. Put the two vans next to each other and its not close.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    Your sample size of one (1) is too small to be scientifically significant.

    CR uses much larger sample sizes.


    But I believe mine to be much more honest.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    Your opinion of inferior or superior is subjective. However, when comparing resale vales based upon KBB numbers, the model years must be the same.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Of course. I believe me, and you believe you, but a third party is likely more objective than an owner, even if not entirely objective as some claim (I'm not taking a stand on the issue as I don't subscribe to CR).
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    How about
    " just bought an '07 Chrysler T&C Spring Special Edition Turing with the DVD and Tow prep package (leather, etc.) with an MSRP of $35,500 for $26000. The Dodge dealer down the street put a crazy price of $23,999 on a Dodge Grand Caravan (with a few less features) so I figured I would head two doors down and see what was available. I really was looking forward to buying an '08 but I couldn't justify the extra 10 grand.

    The T&C Limited is the equivalent of the Odyssey Touring. Your EX model is the equivalent of the T&C touring. Hondas top of the line name -- Touring is Chrylsers middle of the road line name -- Touring.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Wow, buying from a dealer who was putting aftermarket leather in their vehicles, no wonder the price was so astronomical.

    That's was a major drawback for me buying an Ody years ago. I needed a tow package - Chrysler and Toyota are factory installed, whereas Honda's is dealer. I'd heard horror tales about after market tow packages.....leaking lines etc... and the price was out of this world. Back then the dealer wanted $1500 and that didn't include suspension bits, or HD electrical or wiring harness, Chrysler's was $425 and included everything but the hitch bar. Toyota's is standard on all but the most base model, and includes the basics - not bad.

    Keep away from Dealer Installs, they're just profit items.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    "Of course. I believe me, and you believe you, but a third party is likely more objective than an owner, even if not entirely objective as some claim (I'm not taking a stand on the issue as I don't subscribe to CR)."

    Since when is CR psychic? NOBODY -- even a so-called objective 3rd party can predict future resale valeus or reliability.

    Wish my husband did not read CR because he influenced me NOT to get the AWD version based upon the CR dots. Now they don't make one and my observation of their reliabilty differs greatly from their prediction from 2000. Hindsight is better than foresight.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Since when is CR psychic? NOBODY -- even a so-called objective 3rd party can predict future resale valeus or reliability.

    Nor can you, but I'll take the opinions of many people who have owned vehicles over just one opinion. My predictions are that CR will be right more often than my or your biased predictions will.

    Now they don't make one and my observation of their reliabilty differs greatly from their prediction from 2000.

    I'm willing to bet money that you don't know the service and repair histories of 100+ DCX AWD vans. Now who's psychic? :) Just playing.

    Let's drop the CR and get back to the topic at hand, shall we?
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    Wow, buying from a dealer who was putting aftermarket leather in their vehicles, no wonder the price was so astronomical. They can charge a lot more than an auto manufacturer would for leather. I wouldn't have used that Honda dealer.

    You are correct, it was after market. But that is what we all had to deal with. A good dealer make a huge difference. Nonetheless T&C buyers are just a sharp, informed and researched as Odyssey buyers.

    I found out about my full sized spare because my vewhicle was thumping when I went over bumps. With a big trip planned and the chance my new vehicle would not come in on time I had it checked out by a close dealer who I don't particularly like. He said "new bushing and linkages -- $400". Went to Midas who physically showed me the tight linkages and bushings and said they did not need replacement. We looked further and saw that my spare tire up underneather was loose and wobbling -- and that was the cause of the thumping. Cost $0.

    You must trust your dealer.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    "I'm willing to bet money that you don't know the service and repair histories of 100+ DCX AWD vans. Now who's psychic? Just playing. "

    My post said my OBSERVATIONS, which I consider more accurate because I am looking out for me and my family without any outside interests more than anybody else will ever do.

    That said I'll admit I was not into the 07 T&C because side airbags were not standard in that model, but a $600 (?) upgrade. Some of those on the lot do not include side curtain airbags and I don't think they can be added aftermarket.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Here's a 2007 T&C Limited for $29k.

    The T&C Limited isn't much better equpped than the Ody EX-L for 2007, so no, the T&C isn't several thousand cheaper.

    But you're missing the larger point---its an inferior vehicle, and I don't see how any with a straight face could argue otherwse when comparing the current gen Ody vs. the previous gen Chrysler twins. Put the two vans next to each other and its not close.


    This is a pointless game using dealer ads. I actually called and talked to a Len Baker there..... he steered me to a 2008 Touring with Leather, dual screen RES for same price, he said he can do a little better on the 07 as there's now additional dealer's cash? Even so, the Chrysler has many things not even on the Ody...like Nav, adjustable pedals, power everything, warranty.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Who do you personally know in the "media"? I have a very CLOSE personal connection to the "media" and I can assure you that the person and all their colleagues are quite conservative. If this were not the case we would be out of Iraq because the "media" would have driven the moron in the White House back here to Texas to the village that is missing its idiot.

    What value does any vehicle have after eight years?
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Where are you getting your false information concerning Odyssey rebates? There currently are NO Odyssey rebates. Check your facts before you post.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    Where are you getting your false information concerning Odyssey rebates? There currently are NO Odyssey rebates. Check your facts before you post.

    You might want to reread posts 806, 810 and 812 on this thread. The $2000 rebate or, as you prefer, "dealer incentive" has been there for a while - at least since late August when I was looking. It was only $2000 then and went up recently to $2500. Go read the "Prices paid and Buying Experiences -- Odyssey" thread

    As they said on that thread - "buying of used Odysseys may not be such a good idea right now since you can get such good prices on the new ones". It is inevitable that this WILL effect resale values. I'm glad these posters are getting good prices because their resales value may be effected by the usual supply/demand rules in the future.
  • maryh3maryh3 Posts: 263
    "Who do you personally know in the "media"? I have a very CLOSE personal connection to the "media" and I can assure you that the person and all their colleagues are quite conservative. If this were not the case we would be out of Iraq because the "media" would have driven the moron in the White House back here to Texas to the village that is missing its idiot.



    Liberal bias -MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, NPR, NYTimes, Newsweek, Time, USNewsReport, CONSUMER REPORTS (IMO) etc

    Conservative Bias -- FOX, NYPost, USToday etc.

    "What value does any vehicle have after eight years?"

    You might want to use the easy KBB available online to research. If YOU consider 3 years as the only valid time for resales values to matter you cut out most of the auto sale market. Nonetheless, that is your purogative.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    We very closely compared the 2006 Sienna LE 7 passenger and LE 8 passenger when the Toyota dealer had each sitting side by side with same Natural White Exterior and Taupe Interior.

    The 2nd row seats of the 8 passenger Sienna have NO ARMRESTS which makes them UNCOMFORTABLE ALL THE TIME for 2nd row passengers.

    The 2nd row middle seat of the Odyssey is MORE COMFORTABLE for me than the 2nd row middle seat of the Sienna 8 passenger. ALL of the Odyssey seats but the driver's seat are MORE comfortable for me than those of the Sienna. The Odyssey has the BEST idea for 8 passenger seating of all current minivans. ;)

    The Sienna has THE MOST cargo space behind 3rd row of all minivans by a large margin. The Sienna cloth interior has the MOST Attractive door panels of any minivan with cloth interior. The Sienna also gets the best (or tied for best) fuel economy of all V6 powered minivans and is the ONLY minivan with P-R-N-D-4-3-2-L where the driver can have the transmission shift no higher than any of the 5 forward speeds. :shades:

    As stated by others many times, each minivan has advantages.
This discussion has been closed.