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2008 Minivans

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure you can get parts at the Dodge dealer. Probably cheaper. :D

    Let's see if they change any of the driving dynamics, that's a good point. It's already very quiet, so maybe they'll just try to tune it to be more sporty.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Excellent comment in the form of a question.

    Answer: Too many American consumers are TOO STUPID to do any research. Believe it or not, some American consumers think European brand vehicles :lemon: are superior to American or Japanese brands. ;)

    My nephew got a VW Jetta AFTER I warned him that Volkswagens are unreliable and Volkswagen dealer service is usually incompetant. After his VW Jetta broke down on the freeway, he got a new Toyota Corolla, and feels the same way I do about Volkswagens :shades: .
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    So, we are to rely on your satisfied customers and not those legitimate complaints from other dissatisfied owners? Your way or the highway?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    legitimate complaints from other dissatisfied owners? Your way or the highway?

    Ohhh there's plenty of "legitimate complaints" to go around here....horror tales from Toyota, Honda and Chrysler owners. If one went by the comments on this board "Which One" would be thinking of just taking mass transit. Seeing that "Which One" hadn't driven other makes and just had a misperception, they owe it to themselves to SHOP, COMPARE and make an INFORMED decision. That would be my way not the highway.

    I see plenty of people on here badmouthing a make because of a bad experience and it will forever cloud their thinking, they'll take it to their graves, whining and moaning... I've owned awesome domestics and crappy imports, but I looked at all minivans a few years back before deciding on my totally trouble free Grand Caravan.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The "perception" of poor reliability of Chrysler minivans is due to trash talk by "NOT Recommended for purchase" Consumer Reports and their un-scientific predicted reliability crap. :sick:

    All Chrysler minivan owners but one ( including Dodge and Plymouth minivans) are completely satisfied. That person got an ABUSED, used Plymouth Voyager.

    I loved my 2002 Chrysler T&C LX that our daughter is now driving.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Your opinion is no more important than someone with a bad experience who would never buy that particular brand again. It seems to me that certain judgments are made by certain people here about the credibility of the poster. I have owned at least six different brands of minivans including two from GM, one each from Ford and Chrysler plus a VW, Nissan and a Honda yet when I post a negative comment I am shot down usually with you in the vanguard.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    when I post a negative comment I am shot down usually with you in the vanguard.

    Jeez, how did I shoot you down? Are you taking my "whining and moaning" personally - if you are, that's your problem, not mine. I don't let my experiences color every future buying decision from here to enternity.....that's the difference between my opinion and someone with a bad experience who harps on it constantly. If for some reason you feel i'm referring specifically to you - get over it!!!
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,024
    It's about minivans, not each other. Please refrain from making it personal.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    The quality I'm talking about where VW excels is internal controls, switches, materials, etc, and this is where Chrysler and their hard plastics fail. Again, some people would rather drive a vehicle that feels of greater interior quality (and better driving dynamics), then drive a vehicle with an interior that looks and feels cheap and drives like a school bus (even if it is quiet). So maybe they have to take it in to the shop twice a year for repairs as compared to a Chrysler that you only have to take in once a year for repairs, but they're more satisfied with their vehicle the other 363 days of the year.
  • bobber1bobber1 Posts: 217
    You have to be kidding. You'd rather have your vehicle in the shop getting worked on twice a year compared to one?

    I say skip both the VW and Chrysler and buy a Toyota or Honda. You'll get a more reliable vehicle with the better "feeling" switches and finish you seem to like :P
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    But neither the Sienna nor Odyssey may offer all of the features you want. Sometimes I think people place too much emphasis on reliability. In general Honda & Toyota are more reliable (however their models lately haven't been too reliable according to CR), but reliability is only ONE factor to look at when buying a car. I know die-hard Volvo owners who love their car even if they need to bring it into "their mechanic" at least 2-3 times/year for something. But that doesn't bother them in the least. Volvos are as solid as a little tank driving around and that's more important to them then reliablity statistics.

    I'm not saying everyone thinks that way, but to me the Chrysler minivans have more features than the Odyssey/Sienna, such as underfoot storage coolers, swivel seats w/table, individual DVD screens, lifetime powertrain warranty, and so for families with kids who take a lot of road trips, these things may be more valuable than a statistic that indicates that the Odyssey or Sienna is more reliable.

    Could be the same when the VW comes out, especially for folks who just want to drive something different than their neighbor's Odyssey/Sienna
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    In general Honda & Toyota are more reliable (however their models lately haven't been too reliable according to CR),

    Note that the Sienna is not among the models with recent problems.

    In the context of this thread, i.e. the Sienna being their only minivan, CR has rated Toyota vans as reliable all along, consistently, and still do.

    The fact that 6 speed transmission and Tundra V8 are problematic have had no effect whatsoever on the Sienna, of course, since it never got those.

    Actually, that CR rated some other Toyotas poorly sort of contradicts the claims of bias that some people make.

    Any how, just wanted to point that out. Sienna is still CR's most reliable van, has been for years now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    reliability is only ONE factor to look at when buying a car

    Now to address the 2nd half of your sentence.

    Indeed, reliability is one factor, but the Sienna still excels in many other ways:

    * most HP, quickest acceleration
    * most fuel efficient (despite being quickest, wow!)
    * only AWD option
    * only true 8 seater
    * most cases of beer in the cargo area in any position!

    That last one won me over. :D

    I didn't choose the Sienna because of its reliability scores. But I'll take that, too.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    It's good that the Sienna had the features you wanted. But if you had a car full of kids, then some of the features in the new Town & Country may be more usefull than AWD or more HP.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    I liked the controls and switches of my 2002 T&C LX MUCH more than the "one knob does everything" of my 2006 Sienna LE but I do agree that Chrysler minivans now have too much cheap looking and cheap feeling plastic in the interior. :cry:

    The Sienna LE interior is much more attractive than the T&C LX or T&C Touring. :shades:
  • hause7hause7 Posts: 153
    That i can agree on with you Hanssienna...the new Town&country and caravan has the ugliest/cheapest interior out of all the minivans. The Sienna Le we looked at was actually quite nice for the price. We got an offer of $23,242 for a Black Le with Extra value package 2, 16" alloys, and Wiper de-icer/daytime lights. We are very tempted to take the deal. we would miss our nice Limited touches but oh well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    some of the features in the new Town & Country may be more usefull

    Well, I bought my van in May, before the new models were even available for sale.

    I have since checked out the Town & Country at the DC Auto Show, and some of the interior materials disappointed me. The "leather" seats look like vinyl, and the material is shiny, plus the plastics aren't up to par, IMHO.

    The swiveling seats are cool, but they're still too low to the ground and when they face the rear there isn't enough leg room for either row. They should move the 3rd row back - a lot. Like a whole foot back.

    I like the idea of the 2 DVD screens, but we got a 12" aftermarket screen so those screens now seem tiny to us.

    The MyGig is cool, but the Sienna is WMA/MP3 capable, so 6 CDs fit more songs than I have in my song library. No gain for me.

    That plus we already have a Garmin GPS, which works fine. Just upgraded to a 200 widescreen for $199. Can't beat that for value.

    I don't think for the $25 grand that I spent I'd get many of the features you have in mind. Even adding in the huge DVD screen and my GPS we spent just a hair over $26k.
  • Toyota does make a great van but they are not without problems. Consider the huge issue with door welds failing just after warranty. Honda also has very troubling transmissions problems. Just look at the Honda thread and see for yourself. I've come to the conclusion that CR is more biased then I previously thought. I own a Kia Sedona, an 06 and CR recently dropped their "recommended" rating for the Sedona based off of what I do not know. The problems with Kia's new design year have been very minor but look at some of Honda's major tranny design flaws and Toyota's weld's failing CR does not mention this at all and still recommended them like no tomorrow. CR is biased.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I've come to the conclusion that CR is more biased then I previously thought

    No, REALLY???? Next you'll be saying the way they calculate resale value is flawed i.e...using MSRP not actual sale price, and not factoring in larger rebates on vehicles! Or maybe they lay out their magazine in a biased fashion i.e...mostly pics of imports on the cover and lead of articles!!! I've never heard of such slander!! :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Consider the huge issue with door welds failing just after warranty

    Your information is very outdated.

    Toyota in fact extended the warranty to 7 years 100k miles on those.

    Considering the vans affected were 2004-2006, owners should be covered for at least 3 more years, if not longer.

    CR reflects that issue in their detailed scores for the 2004 model under "Body Hardware".

    So you are 100% wrong, CR is not biased. They in fact identify that issue specifically, and report the problem objectively and accurately.

    Bad, bad example. :P
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Bad, bad example.

    It's not just this one example, it's a list of biases - some very visible, some subliminal?
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    You are WRONG concerning DEFECTIVE Sienna Front Door problem warranty.

    The 2004 through 2007 Toyota Sienna Door Check Mounting Panel Warranty Enhancement is for ONLY 5 years or 100,000 miles....NOT 7 years or 100,000 miles. :sick:

    This is stated in the Warranty Enhancement document we received for our 2006 Sienna on December 31, 2007.

    A mere 2 year extension on this severe defect provides NO reassurance for us. We do NOT intend to keep the Sienna for 3 more years nor will it stay in our family because our daughter does NOT like our 2006 Sienna with 19,600 miles as well as her 1999 GC SE that now has 107,000 miles on it..(and she has gone on 4 long 1360 mile round trips in our Sienna with us). :shades:
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    A Chrysler minivan is JUST as reliable as either a Toyota or a Honda. Read about all the Honda Odyssey transmission problems and the defective welds in the Toyota Sienna front doors.

    Chrysler reliability problems are ancient history but Toyota and Honda are having reliability problems with recent models.
  • Yes quite true hanssienna. Even the Koreans are making a very good product now. I would not have touched them with a ten foot pole a little while back but I love my 06 Sedona. Downside is depreciation for lack of reputation but I don't plan on selling my van so this does not effect me. Will probably run it into the ground since I have the long warranty.

    The Ody and Sienna have very nice things about them, Ody's handling and Sienna's power but they are not God's gift to the market and both of the companies reliability has been failing. I think the American maker will continue to make a comeback. Ford is even making some really reliable cars now like the Fusion. Time will tell.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I stand corrected, 5/100 it is, however let's look at the original claims...

    failing just after warranty

    That's still FALSE. Even a 2004 with a 5 year warranty will be covered until 2009. That can't be after warranty, period.

    The 2nd claim:

    Toyota's weld's failing CR does not mention this at all and still recommended them like no tomorrow

    Also FALSE. As I pointed out, CR specifically includes that issue in the Body Hardware rating, with a big black dot. So CR reports this issue accurately, yet they are being falsely accused of a "not mention" that is in fact mentioned.

    If you have a beef with CR, at least come up with something accurate.

    To believe the original assertion only shows that the believer is 100% biased against CR, and wrong.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, lavrishevo, I like the Sedona, in fact I test drove one and it was on my short list of minivans.

    I think they're a great value and should not be ignored.

    But ... all vans have their issues, for the Sedona/Entourage it's been an alignment issue with vibrations that sent one Edmunds member to court to win a Lemon Law suit. And won, by the way. About 6 people here on Edmunds reported having that issue, so it's fairly common.

    Perhaps a couple of Edmunds members have door issues with the Sienna, but certainly not 6. Plus more Siennas are sold.

    So the problem rate for the Sienna doors is still much lower than the alignment/vibration issues with the Korean vans.

    It wasn't a deal killer for me, even still, given $19k would buy a pretty good basic van, and at that price I can forgive a lot.

    Cheers and enjoy your van. If you're going to take a shot at CR - at least take the time to look at their ratings. I think that's a fair request.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The 2004 through 2007 Toyota Sienna Door Check Mounting Panel Warranty Enhancement is for ONLY 5 years or 100,000 miles....NOT 7 years or 100,000 miles

    Hmmm, what is your source?

    I think you could be wrong after all.

    My 2007 was not covered by that warranty extension, come to think of it. I wish it had been. Why not get a free warranty?

    I'm pretty sure it was only 2004-2006 models.

    Are you 100% sure about the 5 year limit?

    Given you were wrong about the model years, I dunno...

    Edit: hansienna: you are wrong about the model years, it's up until 2006, not 2007:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/24/toyota-fixing-600-000-sienna-doors-but-its-no- - t-a-recall-mind-y/

    So if you think about it, the only issue the two of you complain about doesn't even affect 2007-2008 vans. So buy a new Sienna and have no worries - there are no major issues to complain about! :shades:
  • Good Lord are you emotional.

    Is it not true that Toyota extended the warranty because of the amount of customer complaints. This was not something they offered from the beginning and many customers were SOL paying large amounts of money to have this design flaw fixed. What happens when the failure happens after 5 years or 100k which I am sure for many it will? Consumer Reports has a bias towards Japanese vehicles. If you do not agree then this is your right.

    Anyway the whole point, which you seemed to miss, is that Japanese quality is dropping and American manufactures is growing. This is good, I am very happy the American car makers are pulling it together, good for us all... Americans that is.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I am rational. That is why I researched CR's actual ratings, which you did not.

    You are emotional. Your negative emotions and bias against CR have tainted your objectivity. You made conclusions without even LOOKING at CR's ratings. I mean, sheesh! C'mon? How lazy is that?

    Your claims are entirely false, and spreaing myths like that is harmful to readers of this thread. They deserve to know the truth.

    OK, perhaps I am passionate about the truth. ;)
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,024
    Inhale....exhale....nice....cleansing.....breath. We are calm...cool...relaxed.

    Better?

    Continue.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

This discussion has been closed.