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2008 Minivans

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Nope, my LE has a trip computer, temp gauge, compass, garage door opener, and power sliding doors on both sides and only cost $25k, not $30k. The only thing you listed I don't have is the power rear tailgate, and even then there is a power assist to close the latch, all you have to do it drop it.

    And with Dodge you trade that off for a lot less power and 2nd row windows that don't open, plus an older design that is about to be replaced.

    neile457: useful additional data, but note that the Dodge had about half as many miles as the Honda. That's not really a fair comparison.

    aaron_t: I did not use MSRP, I used the no-haggle street prices around me. Those include all discounts and rebates, and represent a real-world price in the Mid-Atlantic region.

    I do agree with you, MSRP is meaningless.

    The lesson here is that used vans can be a real bargain. Even 1 year old vans can be had in some regions for a lot less than new.

    One big factor for me was the 2007 Sienna got a much more powerful engine that I wanted. So to me, a 2006 was worth less, 40 plus horsepower worth.

    Same for the 08 Dodge, by the way, which is much improved. The interior looks too Caliber-ish to me, but I'll reserve final judgement until I can touch and feel it in person.
  • Spy photo spotted (within the last 3 months, in California) a Honda Stream. Any indication if this mini-minivan is coming to market in USA & Canada? It looks to be the size similar to a Madza 5.

    Looks like the answer is "YES". :)

    http://news.windingroad.com/countriesmarkets/japan/japan-report-honda-stream-hea- ded-to-us-in-2009/
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Nice link to an excellent article. The Honda Stream will definitely appeal to many people.

    However, without sliding side doors, the vehicle is NOT a minivan but is a station wagon, tall station wagon, or to distort the situation even more, with AWD it is an SUV (thanks to Subaru's definition). :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Stream looks great. It would be the sharpest looking entry in this small segment.

    The Mazda5 and Rondo are the others.

    Sliding doors or no, these are all similarly sized and priced, and will surely be cross-shopped.

    Yet another entry will be the Dodge Journey:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122333
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    I believe that the Journey will be as large as a full size minivan.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Agree with ateixeira: Stream would be the most attractive.

    One word for the Dodge Journey: UGLY :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The interior leaves much to be desired, but it's not that bad. The beer cooler is innovative.

    It's based on the Stratus so it should be mid-sized, not full size. Vans are about 200-205" long while the Stratus is 191" long.

    Plus, Stratus prices are a lot lower than Grand Caravan prices. The non-Grands will be gone, plus no more AWD.
  • Nice link to an excellent article. The Honda Stream will definitely appeal to many people.

    However, without sliding side doors, the vehicle is NOT a minivan but is a station wagon, tall station wagon, or to distort the situation even more, with AWD it is an SUV (thanks to Subaru's definition).


    Does that also mean that the first Honda Odyssey wasn't a minivan because it had no sliding doors?

    What about the Mitsubishi Expo, and Colt Vista? Would you say that the Expo LRV, which was shorter than the Expo but had sliding doors was a minivan?

    Clearly not all vehicles fit neatly into categories. And the definition of "minivan" has changed over time as the minivans have gotten larger and larger.

    I like to use the term "microvan" or compact MPV for these smaller, tall, long wagon type of vehicles - with or without sliding doors and with or without 3rd seat options.

    I'd say they can be safely distinguished from SUVs (even small SUVs like the Forester) due to lower ground clearance and hence greater interior space utilization.
  • Hmmm. Although I like the exterior looks alright, the Journey looks more SUVish to me. The center stack in the interior looks to be space-hogging. Radio looks to be double-din but placement at the bottom is horrible. Imagine trying to read a nav screen there. Who designs these things?

    I do like the idea of getting rid of the non-Grand Caravans and coming in with a microvan in it's place. But from looking at the Journey, they clearly don't want to build anything that could possibly have "van" associated with it. "Crossover" is the where they feel the market is.
  • Well, actually the REAL current NA (North American build) Odyssey seems to be based on the Elysion model in Japan. See: http://www.batfa.com/newcar-hondaelysion.htm

    The Japanese Odyssey has 4 doors that do not slide.

    The NA Odyssey in 1999-2004 was sold in Japan as 'La Great' and looks the same as the NA one did did.

    If you use you logic the Mazda9, I believe is considered by the industry as a mini-van although I would say it proably fits as a mico-mini-van, about the same size as the Stream.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    The Mazda9, Outlook, Acadia, Freestyle, Veracruz, etc...are all considered CUVs, because they're a cross between a SUV and minivan/car.

    By definition, a minivan is a small van, with a flat floor, sliding doors...basically a box on wheels. None of the CUVs listed above meet that criteria. Just because a vehicle holds 8 doesn't make it a minivan.
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 293
    There are some 2008 T&Cs arriving here and they look really nice. The problem is the ones with leather all have gray interiors. Looking at the Chrysler website (build your own), it appears you can get tan trim by ordering the Touring with 24k option pkg, but that would be in their so-called "YES Essentials" material, which I think is their fancy word for cloth seats. If you change the YES Essentials to leather, there is no additional charge, but the color automatically reverts to gray. Could it be that the only way to get tan leather seats in the new T&C is by moving up to the Limited model?
  • Could it be that the only way to get tan leather seats in the new T&C is by moving up to the Limited model?

    It could be. Or it could just be that the web site isn't functioning properly.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I don't know, but I saw a Dodge SXT with Swivel n Go seats with tan leather seats the other day at a dealership. It sure was nice.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Before buying a 2008 Chrysler built minivan you might consider reading the Edmunds Insider head to head review of the 2008 Grand Caravan and the Odyssey. As the title of my post suggests, nice try Chrysler, close but no cigar. Factor in the miserable depreciation (caused by tens of thousands dumped from rental/taxi fleets)and it becomes clear that the right choice would be an Odyssey.
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 293
    Yes, actually the Rice cake is at the top of our list, but we wanted to see what the new Mopars were like first. Somewhat under whelmed.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Actually all the Big 3 are jumping out of the rental/taxi fleets. Nowadays, you can rent Toyotas and Hyundais instead. You'd think someone would come out with a company just to make generic cars/minivan and focus solely on that niche? DCX also now has the best warranty in the industry.

    The "miserable depreciation" is quite dishonest because of the only way it can be factored i.e.. using MSRP, not actual transaction price. I bet if you could factor in people of paid dealer markup to get a certain model vs. someone who got a discount, it wouldn't be nearly "miserable".

    So if you factor in no rentals, the best warranty, features and honest depreciation, the right choice could be a Chrysler vehicle.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    I have not posted on these boards in about 18 months or more and I know why. The mantra of the same people touting what cannot, in fact, be touted continues.

    I'm outta here, again.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    I specifically remember GM saying they would not be putting the "new" Malibu into rental fleets to help maintain resale when the car was introduced about four years ago. Guess what? GM has made almost the exact same statement concerning its impending "newer" Malibu. GM says it would "limit" the number in rental fleets. I guess this will be the plan until sales do not meet quotas?

    BTW: According to Edmunds the Kia Sedona has the worst depreciation at 40%. Yes is for the newest body style. Chrysler is close behind.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I thought you were "outta here"?

    Guess it's easier to just spout off a figure but not respond to how depreciation is actually calculated. Edmunds says blah blah blah, but how did they arrive at blah blah blah doesn't matter?

    Lets see, I spent $20,000 for my 2005, it has 21,000 miles, never a problem, in great shape and according to NADA worth about $16,000 - $17,500, it's retained about 80% of it's original selling price using the $16k figure? Not too miserable by my calculations.
  • Let's see!
    My 2002 Odyssey that I bought for 34,700 canadian dollars, new is now worth (in 2007) 18,000 to 19,000 and has 175,000 kilometers (108,700 miles). A big-three (GM,CHRYSLER, FORD)
    looses halves {or halfs} it's value in 2 years. It I had bought a T&C in 2002 for 34,700 it would be worth 17.350 in 2004.

    It would be smart to buy a new Honda/Toyota OR a used BIG-THREE (3+ years old). Why loose all that money on depreciation!

    [Oh, I did not include Nissan as they are owned by Renault in France] :D
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    I just searched our local dealers for 2005 T & Cs. The price is anywhere from $10,000 to $13,500 RETAIL meaning trade-in is about $9,000 to $11,000 for the 50+ listed. The average RETAIL price for a 2005 Odyssey on the same site (9 listed) is $23,175 meaning dealer trade-in was around $21,000.

    44% retained value for the T&C
    75% retained value for the Odyssey

    I guess those hefty T&C rebates and other incentives must sure be worth it.
  • I would concur on Chrysler minivan's depreciation having owned a 1994 Grand Caravan ES - new $27K, sold it for $2,400 in January 2007. On the other hand, in over 12 years and 164K of driving, here's what was replaced/repaired: starter, 3 sets of tires, brakes (2 or 3 times, including front rotors once), plus the normal routine preventive maintenance items. Nothing else . . . It was on its original stainless steel exhaust system, catalytic converter, etc. No problems with the engine (3.3L V6), nor the 4-speed automatic. 5W-30 Mobil 1 every 3K or 3 months, and changed ATF every 24K miles.

    The same can't be said for my brother's 2001 Ody. His first automatic transmission lasted 45K, and he's had several major electrical problems. Great resale value, but overall, poor reliability.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Artgo, you come on here bashing DCX Minivan with you're "Not Quite as Good" posting, spout off "miserable depreciation" comments, then try to silence posters with your "touting what cannot". Sorry for trying to explain to you how depreciation is calculated incorrectly, now if you want to correct me, feel free but don't try the high and mighty routine after initiating "Not Quite as Good".

    Have you driven a 2008 DCX Minivan? Somehow I doubt you ever will.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I just searched our local dealers for 2005 T & Cs. The price is anywhere from $10,000 to $13,500 RETAIL meaning trade-in is about $9,000 to $11,000 for the 50+ listed. The average RETAIL price for a 2005 Odyssey on the same site (9 listed) is $23,175 meaning dealer trade-in was around $21,000.

    44% retained value for the T&C
    75% retained value for the Odyssey

    I guess those hefty T&C rebates and other incentives must sure be worth it


    Since you don't know what the T&C buyers paid years ago, your analysis is flawed. What's the saying figures don't lie but liars figure?
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    If your planning to spend $25,000 plus on a minivan and keep it only two or three years, yes, go ahead and by a Honda. But if your like me and keep one at least five years, the new Chrysler is a great buy. It has all the safety features Honda and Toyota has, plus a six speed tranny, television, DVDs, Nav, etc.,etc.etc. There is nothing the other two have that the Chrysler minivans don't. But there is stuff on the Chrysler vans the other two don't have and it has a life time warranty on engine and drive train as long as you keep it. It's pretty hard to beat that. Plus, it's now American owned and most of the profit from that van will stay here in America and create more American jobs. So yes, if your planning on dumping it in a couple of years, buy a Honda or Toyota. My next new one will be a Chrysler product with all those goodies you can't get on yours. Like you use to complain that Chrysler didn't have what the other two did. And when that light turns green and that 4.1 leaves your's in the dust, don't say you didn't have the chance to buy one.
  • I don't know where you got keeping a Honda Odyssey 2 years, but I have had mine 5 years and I plan to have it about 15 years, if possible (currently 175,000 kilometers). A new 2008 Chrysler T&C with 6 speed automatic lists at CAN$42,895.00 and does NOT have a life-time warranty, just 3year/60 kms. The life-time warranty is offered only in the USA.
    It was always American owned but Windsor, Ontario, Canada (across the river from Detroit, Michigan) has a Chrysler minvan plant where alot of these minivans are produced.

    My the way a Honda Odyssey Touring model will cost you can$50,000+ in Canada and we cannot get all the colours {Canadian spelling} in Canada although it's only build in Lincoln, Alabama (since late 2003}. They add the daytime runninglight module to them. In Canada daytime runninglights are manatory since 1971.

    Mostly Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, etc give extra standard accessories to Canada, like heated mirrors & a few other items.
  • Well, my Chrysler isn't a minivan, it's actually a 2000 Sebring Convertible, but my depreciation was not miserable. I got the jxi for about $26k, and now days my car is worth about 7 thousand. But so would a Toyota Solara at the same price in 2000. Over time, american and foreign car prices start evening out for comparable cars. Its just the first two or three years where the differences are. And most people have cars for 5 anyways, when the depreciation has nearly or started to cathc up to one another.

    Besides would you rather buy a car you hate because it doesn;t really lose its value, or a car you love that isnt going to be worth so much? Id buy the car I love/ works best for me.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Some of us want the luxury of separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger that Chrysler offers on almost every minivan BUT Honda and Toyota offer it only on minivans costing $ 29,000 or more. :sick:

    For you the Odyssey may be the right choice but not for more people that buy Chrysler/Dodge than Honda/Toyota combined. :shades:
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    For a comparison of used 2005's, you need to state the model of each and the ACTUAL SELLING price when new. The posting # 127 is NOT RECOMMENDED because it is lacking in facts. :sick:
This discussion has been closed.