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2008 Minivans

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Comments

  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    Nice post, but a couple of comments:

    It sounds like you made your choice before even sitting in any of the vehicles based. You say in your first sentence that you hate all minivans except for the T&C and you must have the StowNGo.

    "Therefore, the second row seat behind me is useless for any adult passenger for lack of leg room" If that's the case, then you could just remove the 2nd row seat behind you and just leave it out all of the time, but it sounds like you use it as a cargo van a lot, so the StowNGo is perfect for you.

    You also mention that you're a "typical consumer" but then you say you have no family to haul around, so I assume you're using this mostly as a cargo van? That's fine, but I think that the typical minivan consumer is a family with a bunch of rowdy kids ;)

    I agree that you made the right pick, and anyone needing to switch between a cargo van and passenger van on a regular basis should probably pick this one too.
  • I admitted I was mainly attracted by the style and features of the new 2008 TC and DCX. I only test drove all three vehicles to see how the TC stacked up to the so-called "holy grail" Odyssey and the "best value" Sedona, neither of which I would buy. I am typical in that I am not a mechanic nor test car driver. The dealer is not going to let me race his only new test vehicle on a highway or obstacle course. My perception is that the ride on all three minivans is just fine for my usage. The difference entirely lays in the styling and features for my preferences, which clearly are not a typical family's needs, rowdy or not. No offense.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The 2008 T&C LX with 24H is an almost exact clone of the 2008 GC SE with 24H except the T&C LX 24H has MSRP $26,190 while GC SE option 24H is $ 20 more at $ 26,210. :shades:

    The 2008 T&C Touring base 25K has MSRP $ 28,430 while 2008 GC SXT base 25K has MSRP $ 27,535. I have been unable to decipher the extra items the base T&C Touring 25K has that are not on the base GC SXT 25K. :confuse:
  • All this minivan model alphabetization has me confused. Someone pointed out I have repeatedly misspelled the 2008 Dodge GC STX in my recent posts, aka DCX STX. Sorry, you know what I mean.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Agreed. The old system where there were names for various models was easier as is Honda keeping LX and EX for almost any Honda and Toyota keeping CE, LE, and XLE made things much simpler. :shades:
  • Hey hansienna

    You are a stickler for details, as I am. I see you've posted over 2000 times in this forum compared to my four, so I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with everyone. My original post #220 said that my dealer quoted me a $27K cash price for a 2008 TC Touring, not 25K as you reply. He quoted me $25K cash for my choice of a 2008 TC LX with 24H package, or, $25K for a 2008 CG STX K package (aka DCX STX) that does offer better 197 HP engine and power doors and driver's seat. I negotiated these cash prices from the MSRPs you mention and I hope to bring down my cost lower if I can. Hope that answers all your questions. Otherwise, your info is absolutely right.
  • Hey hansienna again

    I just realized after I posted that you meant 25K as an option package for the 2008 GC STX, not a cash price I mentioned. My mistake.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Go for the T&C LX option 24H...BUT IF he will sell you the GC SXT option 25K for $ 25,000 same as T&C LX, go for the GC SXT for reasons you stated. I was satisfied with 3.3L in my 02 T&C LX but do appreciate the additional power of the Sienna 3.3L.

    Chrysler has interesting codes: 24 indicates 3.3L, 25 indicates 3.8L, and 26 indicates 4.0L in GC SXT while 28 indicates 4.0L in the T&C Limited.

    The letter F indicates base T&C LX or base GC SE while G and H have more content in either T&C LX or GC SE.

    The letter K indicates base T&C Touring or base GC SXT where the 3.8L engine is standard. Letters L and M have more content in both T&C Touring and GC SXT.

    The 4.0L is available with GC SXT option M and N but NOT available with T&C Touring option M. The 4.0L is available on the T&C in Limited only and is listed as 28X since the T&C Limited has no comparable GC. :confuse:
  • Actually, I would like the GC SXT 197 HP motor over the 175 HP in the TC LX, although I doubt 22 HP is going to provide a great difference in performance. I'm not as thrilled to get power slide doors and seats in the SXT because I intend to keep the minivan with its lifetime powertrain warranty, and those door motors will break down eventually. As a youth I owned a Triumph TR-7 with hidden headlights -- very cool until I had to replace the motors at a cost of $800 back 30 years ago instead of just changing $5 standard headlamps. The motors had to be flown in from Germany as Triumph had gone defunct in England. Does anyone know of a way to safely temporarily disengage door sliding motors on 2008 TC and GC? I dare not ask the dealer or he may later claim I voided the warranty on the car. It's probably not wise to do it, but I wonder if it can be done safely. Or conversely, can the doors still slide manually after the motors are shot? Then it doesn't really matter about disengaging the motors. I could still manually rotate the Triumph headlights, but I had to get down on my knees under the front bumper to turn each motor knob with my fingertips. Not too cool when trying to impress a date with your hot foreign sport car that doesn't work properly. Oh the good old days. :blush:
  • If they kept the same concept as the previous models, you should be able to open them manually with little resistance from the motor. Next time you go to the dealer, test one out with the power sliding doors. :)
  • I've actually tried that and found that once you manually start to open or close a power sliding minivan door, the motor engages to finish the job and you can't physically force it to speed up or slow down. It works like an elevator door. If you try to force it either way, it reopens automatically, as a safety precaution I guess. I wouldn't try it unless someone can definitely tell me how it can be safely done without damaging the motors. Or I may just go for the TC LX which has a smaller 175 HP engine, but manual doors and seats all around. After the motorized headlights debacle with my old Triumph TR7, I swore I'd never buy a foreign car again, which is another reason I prefer Chrysler/Dodge for future access to parts and service.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    I, too prefer manually operated sliding doors instead of power sliding doors for the reason you have stated. I had preferred manually operated windows because I knew people who had expensive repairs on power windows.

    Now that I have had power windows since 1991, I would not want to be without them. Probably why many people can't live without power sliding doors and power liftgate at rear.

    As masterpaul said, the T&C/GC sliding doors with power sliding motors are designed to be opened as easily without power as those that never had the power sliding doors.

    As I recall, the reason is because the power sliding motor is located within the door whereas other brands had the motor located within the van body unless they have copied Chrysler.

    Toyota and Honda put one engine in all minivans but don't make the comfortable feature of separate temperature for driver and front passenger on less expensive models. Chrysler is just the opposite: You can get comfort features on less expensive models but not the most powerful engine. :confuse:

    Now that I have had 215 HP in my Sienna, I would probably miss the extra 40 HP if I got a Chrysler minivan with only 175 HP while I never missed the extra power in my 02 T&C. A devout Town Hall owner of a 2007 Sienna tells me I would not be satisfied with only 215 HP of my 06 if I drove the 07 Sienna with 266 HP :shades:

    Sort of funny since I was able to get by with only 40 hp or whatever in my first Volkswagen Beetle but it was really nice to get a real heater in a car after I had owned the very primitive VW. Winter on the windswept plains of southern Wyoming can be bitterly cold without any heat from the most basic of transportation :blush:
  • carcom2carcom2 Posts: 212
    When I checked out the 2008 T&C Limited about a week ago, which most likely has the same power door as all the 2008 D/C minivans, I noticed no motor engagement or resistance at all when I opened the power sliding door manually. It was gliding smooth as could be. I was actually impressed by that because I remember trying that with competitors in the past when it was a pain to feel the resistance when trying to open manually and the power doors opened so slowly. Not the 2008 T&C. They got it right.

    As minor as this might seem, I dislike the ugliness and design on some of the foreign minivans that don't conceal the track nicely intergrated near the window. The Dodge & Chrysler do it just right.
  • Well that does sound promising because the TC LX I test drove did not have power doors so I can't check it out until the dealer provides another 2008 TC or GC with power doors. I'll definitely check for that. Thanks. Can anyone unequivocally state that the TC/GC power doors will still work manually if and when the motor fails, or must the motor be repaired? Same question may apply to the powered driver and front passenger seats, liftgate, windows and new feature of powered third row Stow N Go seats.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    Now that I have had 215 HP in my Sienna, I would probably miss the extra 40 HP if I got a Chrysler minivan with only 175 HP

    Just curious on how you would "miss" the 40HP? Getting to the stop-sign a fraction of a second later?
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    EXCELLENT, well written reminder of the craziness that many Americans will embrace.

    Good reminder that I don't need blitzkrieg acceleration. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well you missed a heck of a lot on the Dodge/Chrysler. They also have a moon roof, front dash video, sub woofer, halo lighting,pinpoint LED lighting to read, rechargable flashlight, two glove boxes, Two screen DVD's, that can play two different programs or games. Cruise control, adjustable peddles, flex-fuel capability, tire pressure monitoring, industry-first integrated child booster seat, a voice-activated navigation system with real-time traffic, ParkSense® rear back-up system. Automatic one touch folding rear seat, 3rd row that can tailgate, front and middle heated seats. Driver and passenger eight way power seats. Dual- or tri-zone heating and cooling system. Hands-free cellphone system, mesh side pockets on the second-row seats, 110V inverter, two second-row output/input jacks with a 12-volt power outlet and an overhead console with bins large enough to store headphones. New to the industry is streaming video, supplied by Sirius satellites. You can also get a new, removable sliding front console that is large enough to store a purse; remote start;

    Let's be fair, here, I did ask for help identifying these. Thanks for nominating several features.

    I say "nominating" because many of these are not unique to the T&C and GC. Let's see....

    moonroof? That's nearly universal, so no.

    front dash video? Most GPS/DVD system will do this. Not unique.

    sub woofer? Pretty much universal as well, so no.

    two glove boxes? Nope. My Sienna has that.

    2 screen DVD was pioneered by Nissan on the Quest, and I already gave Dodge credit for the sat. TV, so no again.

    adjustable pedals? Competitors offers a telescoping wheel, so a fair trade. If it had both it would be unique.

    Cruise control? No way, that's universal. Toyota offers laser cruise control, which follow the car in front of you at a set distance. Toyota's is unique, no credit to Dodge here for the generic cruise.

    Tire pressure monitoring? Universal, in fact this is now required by law so even an econobox would have it. Not unique at all, in fact it's the complete opposite.

    Integrated child booster? Nice, but I don't see how you can claim it's the industry's first, given Volvo has had these for ages, and even Subaru offered it in the Outback. It may be the industry's third, not first, but still, Dodge gets credit here for being unique among minivans.

    Voice activated NAV was pioneered by Honda, I believe. It's not unique for sure.

    rear backup system? again, near universal at this point. In fact most offer both a rear view camera and/or an audio sensor. No way, no how is this unique.

    Power folding 3rd row? as I mentioned, Sienna has this first, so it is certainly not unique to Dodge. It tailgates, too.

    Also not unique: power passenger seats, Bluetooth for phones, 110V inverter, dual-zone or 3-one ACC, even the removeable console is not unique, Sienna offers all of those things.

    So while you made a nice, long list, very few of those are truly unique that I had not already mentioned.

    Halo/LED lighting, the flashlight, built-in booster and flex-fuel capability, that's about it. Plus the ones I had mentioned before.

    Sounds like you picked up a brochure and simply listed every feature. I was looking for unique features.

    I'd like the see the built-in booster you mention. To be honest that's the only one of the 4 unique features you brought up that would interest me. :shades:
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    It isn't the 20hp that I think will be noticable on a back to back test drive the the SE/LX vs. SXT/Touring. It's the two extra gears in the transmission.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    When you are driving the family up through the hills, and you have a heavy payload of 1000 lbs or so, or especially when towing, you will notice the difference.

    The more powerful engine will be able to maintain speed, the weaker one won't. If you set cruise control you'll notice it will downshift at first, then lose speed, then disable cruise completely.

    This was quite humling in a '91 Escort GT I used to own. I always felt it was quick, 0-60 and all. But load it up with 4 people and luggage and at altitude it had to limp up a hill even with a seemingly decent 127hp.

    A much heavier van with less than 200hp would likely struggle in the same way. I don't want to be that guy limping slowly in the right lane trying to make it up that long uphill, all while being tailgated by big trucks.

    Some times power is indeed a safety feature. :shades:
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    So basically you're saying if you compare 2 vehicles, more HP is always better...I don't buy it. The lower HP vehicle may be able to do all those things you mentioned, and get better mpg. The one with higher HP may be able to do it faster, but they both may make it up the hill at 70mph. Just the one with the more HP could do it at 100mph while the one with the lower HP may only be able to do it at 80mph. Both within reasonable driving use.
  • Mini vans keep getting larger, more extras, bigger gas engines that get less and less mpg.

    I've had four and don't want any more until they make one like those first vans, but they must "average" around "35 MPG"...........
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I think Marine's point was that Dodge integrates all these into their minivans. Sure, many of these features are available on SUVs/Cars/Trucks but DCX combines them all in their Minivans. I don't believe anyone else offers a backup camera in their minivans but I could be wrong. Same with ipod connections, hard drives....

    BTW - I know Visteon Corp built the first voice recognition systems for Nissan about 6 years ago. My company, Tyco Electronics, supplies some of the components. Honda came later.

    Chrylser offered built in childs seats about a decade ago, before the 1996 minivans. I don't know why they dropped them later on?

    My 2001 BMW had LED lighting, and again, Tyco Electronics supplies both BMW and DCX with light pipes and LED lighting. The LEDs last forever, use very little energy, doesn't distract the driver and helps to differentiate DCX from their competitors.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Sounds like you picked up a brochure and simply listed every feature. I was looking for unique features.

    Without going back and looking, I don't remember you saying what unique features Dodge had over the Toyota. You said what you had on yours and asked what the Dodge had on it. If not mistaken.

    Let's see, the integrated car seat, no one else has (on a minivan) which is what we are comparing right? No one has the television, Chrysler has the battery saver. I know Honda doesn't have that unless they just added it. Not sure about Toyota. Could you show me where another minivan has a sub woofer? I had read Chrysler was the only minivan to offer it. Only one to have a rechargeable flash light. I think they are also the only one to offer a AC/DC converter.
    Does the others offer a big hard drive to play music and view photos on their screen? Remote start built into the key fob. Third row, auto one touch seat. Swivel second row seats. Only one to offer halo lighting. Many have dual DVD screens, but can't play separate movies, Chrysler's can. Self adjusting front shocks. An umbrella holder. Stow-n-go seating.

    These are the things I can think of off my head.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    The T&C, Ody & Sienna are about the same dimensions on the ouside, but on the inside from the manufacturer webpage (and the Sienna is actually bigger inside than the Ody!):

    Legroom rows 1/2/3
    Ody 40.8/40.0/41.1
    T&C 40.6./36.4/37.6

    Cargo Capacity behind 3rd row
    Ody 38.4
    T&C 32.3CuFt

    MPG
    Ody 19/26
    T&C 17/24
  • Again, if they used the same type motors and set up as the previous models, you should be able to manually use the power sliding doors and rear hatch with little to no resistance, if the motor dies. Check it out for yourself and ask questions about these features to the sales person. I understand your concern though. Before, we bought our 01 DGC EX with the passenger power sliding door and power rear hatch. I found myself asking these same questions. When I found out that we could still use the power doors manually, even if the motor goes, that was a plus for me. :)
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Are the measurements for the 2008 Ody and 2008 T&C or for 2007 of each?

    WHERE are the other measurements like Shoulder Room, Hip Room, Head Room, Cargo capacity behind 2nd row and total cargo capacity behind 1st row with ALL seats down or out?

    WHY not also include the Sienna data if it is bigger inside? :confuse:

    I feel that the Odyssey has THE most comfortable seats for ALL people inside it...BUT the Odyssey cargo room behind 3rd row is compromised by having the air intake for the rear heater/air conditioner fan at floor level while T&C/GC is part way up the rear side and the Sienna with THE LARGEST cargo area behind 3rd row also has the air intake level almost at the top of the rear side. :shades:
  • hause7hause7 Posts: 153
    Chrysler has been putting out false info on there new Town&country. It is not the first minivan with a subwoofer, the Odyssey has an 8 inch sub as does the Nissan Quest, and the Sienna offers the biggest at 10 inch sub with the JBL system. It is not the first to offer power 3rd row, the 06-08 SIenna has it on limited models. The Sienna has AC outlets with the DVD player, and the SIenna offered HID headlights first and it offers Adaptive cruise control. The old Toyota Previa had the 2nd row seats that swiveled, so i don't see how thats new.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Chrysler has been putting out false info on there new Town&country. It is not the first minivan with a subwoofer, the Odyssey has an 8 inch sub as does the Nissan Quest, and the Sienna offers the biggest at 10 inch sub with the JBL system. It is not the first to offer power 3rd row, the 06-08 SIenna has it on limited models. The Sienna has AC outlets with the DVD player, and the SIenna offered HID headlights first and it offers Adaptive cruise control. The old Toyota Previa had the 2nd row seats that swiveled, so i don't see how thats new.

    Not sure if Chrysler put it out or not, but the Oct. issue of Motor Trend says,(including a minivan first subwoofer)in parenthesis. The swivel seats might not be new, but it looks like the Chrysler vans are the only one having them now. I don't think any of the minivans offered a table to go with them, even before.

    The thing is, all the standard and options you can get with this van that aren't offered with the other minivans. Even if you take away the subwoofer, the list is pretty long. Depending on what a family wants, there is a model for most everyone. Although, I would never buy the base model. That looks really cheap.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The base GC SE looks cheap because it IS relatively INEXPENSIVE.

    On the other hand, the base Sienna or Odyssey does not look cheap because each IS EXPENSIVE. Both EXPENSIVE Ody LX and Sienna CE or LE minivans can NOT be equipped with the comfort of separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger (that is optional on every GC SE except the base SE for a reasonable price).

    After driving the Sienna LE for 20+ months, I would gladly give up the nicer looking interior for the luxury of separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger. :shades:
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    WHERE are the other measurements like Shoulder Room, Hip Room, Head Room, Cargo capacity behind 2nd row and total cargo capacity behind 1st row with ALL seats down or out?

    You can look for yourself if you want to see more data or for the Sienna. I don't have the time to copy/paste everything for you :P

    This was for an '08 T&C and I think the 07 & 08 Ody are identical. I was only identifying these measurements because they were different. Some of the other measurements (hip, head, shoulder) were about the same.
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