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United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
edited January 5 in General
It appears the UAW, is really pushing to unionize Toyota.

Toyota workers in Kentucky demand a share in company's success:

http://www.uaw.org/news/newsarticle.cfm?ArtId=450

I talk a lot of smack about buying a Hyundai Genesis, but you guys all know when it came down to it I couldn't pull the trigger. I pulled it once on the Acura, (a mistake) but I got to support american jobs. Now if those Hyundai Genesis, were made here with american parts and were union made that might be a different story. ;) I hope the UAW, does unionize Toyota, because I'd like to at least keep Toyota, as a option in the future. :) Y'all Toyota Kool-Aid drinkers wouldn't ever here me talk very much smack ever again about Toyota. Now if we could get those Lexus brand cars made here by UAW workers that would be a cool option. :shades:

I however will most likely only drive General Motors automobiles. Sure I like other brands but I need to support good jobs for our workers. I would love to see Toyota, provide good paying union jobs where workers can be employed for a full career. :)

Rocky
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Comments

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    I think Congress doesn't have the means to bargain with Japan and Korea and China and get the trading tariffs/fees levelled to a fair game for the U.S.

    They want to keep things "open" and keep the flow of trade coming in. The other contries won't agree to lift tariffs on U.S. cars and trucks and claim that their people "hate" American automotive products.

    I don't know how much of this is really true and how much is being "spoon-fed" in to their homeland people, know what I mean?

    rocky...I am not against the UAW yet I do feel that they have not helped the situation with the domestics and their imposed "playing field" with the imports and the import countries.

    I favored Ford products and bought them for many moons.

    A revamped Falcon(I liked the old early 60's Falcon's..the forerunner to the Mustang)would we most welcome for Ford, the new Mustang is a very good effort by Ford and I think the Fusion is a fairly well-built midsize from Ford...I took a look at them last year... for a few days, anyway.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Tuesday, April 10, 2007

    Proposed treaty doesn't eliminate barriers to U.S. products in Korean market

    http://www.uaw.org/atissue/atstory.cfm?atId=182

    Tell Congress: NO on Korea free trade agreement!

    http://www.uaw.org/dclink/dcstory.cfm?DcId=148

    It also fails to protect workers rights :sick:

    http://www.uaw.org/dclink/factworkerrights.pdf

    The UAW, can see the writing on the wall. They like me can see the growing impact Hyundai and Kia will have on the U.S. market and eliminating the tariff will only make it worse. :(

    Just my $0.02 ;)

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    if GM, Ford and DCX design engineers would eat just a few less jelly donuts(or should I say a few more)and drink a few less cups of Starbuck's and design a car like my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS I might be spending my money on domestic automotive products. The UAW has rode the glory train for way too many years and, sadly, the manufacturing has gleaned on large pick-em up trucks and large homely SUVs.

    I love cars, trucks, not so much.

    Imports: great cars.

    Domestics: decent trucks.

    I hear the health care industry needs workers.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    iluv, indeed your Lancer, is a very nice looking automobile. It wouldn't be so cheap if it wasn't for the currency manipulation problem we have with Japan. We've been through that discussion enough so I'll leave it alone.

    GM, has built a great Lancer competitor called the Opel/Saturn Astra. I think the next generation is being examined as we speak. I think I read on insideline GM, is going to invest 4.5 Billion on this car. It is a very popular automobile in Europe. I guess the Lancer, just grabbed ya. I can see why. I wished GM, would build a Lancer, like vehicle as it is a great design IMHO. My wife doesn't like it and prefers the Astra. I guess if ford brought over the Falcon, it would really give the Lancer, some compeition. Chrysler, appears to have no real competitor is the compact car segment. Honda, is still king but I do think the Lancer, will sell very well.

    The UAW, hasn't rode on the glory train in several years. Look at how many jobs they have lost because this country refuses to properly protect manufactoring jobs like automobile jobs while foreign governments place barriers to eliminate competition in their homeland. The only vehicles that sell in foreign lands made outside of their country in Korea, Japan, China, is luxury vehicles like Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, because when your filthy rich you can afford the tariff. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    UAW bid would face hurdles

    Union chief says he wants Chrysler to stay with DCX, but is studying members' proposal to buy company.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070421/AUTO01/704210356/1148- /rss25

    If this were to happen I guess I'd have to some how find a DCX product I like and buy it. :D

    Kerkorkian, is meeting with the UAW, and just maybe togeather they will buy it. What I'd like to see is the UAW, make a 100% american made union vehicle and I'd be one of the first to line-up to buy it. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070421/AUTO01/704210378/1148- /rss25

    What does this mean to you: The UAW, is going to get a lot more flexible with it's work rules to be more competitive. Now if we can only get congress to help them out by leveling the playing field. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The Japanese, are nationalist. I can respect that. We in our culture have lost that I suppose. I'm sometimes guilty of it. I however try to make more of a effort to buy american than your average Joe. ;)

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    I have to say that after all of these months posting on here I see that you are making a great effort and that is repectable. You have UAW and family with automotive success interests in the domestic product. Of course you're gonna feel the way you do.

    I guess I changed my attitude in the late 90's when I saw low-cost cars coming from S.Korea that looked like they were built fairly well. Far from perfect(indeed my first Kia, a '99 Sephia, just held Kia's 3 year and 36,000 mile powertrain Warranty, IIRC)but I liked their small bodies and attention to detail. Kia and yes big bro Hyundai, esp.with the new Genesis project, are looking out for themselves quite well. They're building manufacturing plants with intentions for more plants from both makers. Kia is now looking strongly at making their Mojave pickup truck that will sell, of course, in the U.S.

    Mitsu has me captured though with this hot new Lancer GTS. My wife and I are diggin' the Rally Red paint job and the sunroof and that monster stereo from Rockford Fosgate. I respect Mitsubishi's building talents and this car handles great and produces no annoying squeaks and rattles.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I like I have said in the Genesis, forum which I created still after my change of heart believe the Genesis, will win a lot of buyers. If they made it here and was made let's say of 70% domestic content I could perhaps buy one.

    The fact remains that Korea's domestic content sits at 3%. That wasn't my only problem with it. I did a lot of research yesterday on South Korea, Hyundai, Kia, and the myths of them treating their country's citizens fair with human rights was a real turn off for me. I read buyer testimony's on the net of sales experiences and boy this company has issues on customer service that would make VW blush. I always thought VW, was bad but man some of these people were told to bend over and touch their toes in the service department.

    I suppose as you say that more and more Hykia products will be built here. That is a good thing. They might not come here so fast if they see Toyota, getting unionized because of the way they are treating older employees. Hyundai's biggest fear would be paying liveable wages and benefits. They right now pay about $14 an hour in Alabama. Since they have a 401K retirement that means the employee contributions aren't very high on those wages because of the cost of living. That just isn't sustainable and you'd have to work till you croak.

    As far as your Lancer, goes I guess it's made in Japan ? I always thought for some reason they were made in California, but the car I'm must be thinking of is the Eclipse (I Think) ? I like I said to you believe the Lancer, is very stylish. It would be nice if Mitsubishi, would build all their cars here. :)

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    indeed built by Mitsubishi in Japan, yes.

    No, I am not one to take human rights issues in to play when making an economic decision involving my wife and I. That is, I will admit that, if I allowed myself to get emotionally involved enough through research, as you said you did, I might change my mind. I got good usage out of both of my Kia's and the service department treated me very well at both dealerships I went to for service.

    I have not heard of Mitsubishi mistreating their employees at all. If anyone has input regarding that, do fire away. I remain very impressed with their automotive product, Warranty and their organization and hard-work ethic I see put in to place. Quite impressive.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    You won't have to worry about unfair or abusive treatment problems in Japan. You can have a worry free driving experience as that concern isn't one. ;)

    I hope we continue to get updates on the Georgetown plant going UAW. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    He also said that Detroit and Michigan could be a hub to develop environmentally friendly fuels to power the automobiles of the future.

    "I don't want to see the fuel efficient cars in the world built someplace else," he said. "They ought to be built right here in Detroit and the United States of America by UAW workers."

    Edwards said he would oppose trade agreements that would harm U.S. workers and said he opposes the pending trade agreement between the U.S. and South Korea.

    He said he supports laws making it easier for unions to organize because "it's absolutely crucial to maintain and strengthen and grow the middle class in this country that we strengthen the right to organize. That we strengthen the power of unions to have a level playing field in the negotiating process. I think this is important for America's economic security."

    He said as president he would use his bully pulpit "to explain to America what the union movement has meant in the history of this country."


    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070422/NATION/704220324&- - - theme=Nation-Iraq

    Rocky
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    Any UAW thread has to fall into politics. The UAW has no long term viability without political support.

    Let's just kill this thread before it descends into a paid political announcement.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Me too, I resisted the temptation.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    ...the article has some real howlers, but I guess that Mr. Edwards had to play to his audience. On the other hand, if he really believes what he said...

    The article contains this snippet: He said as president he would push his plan for universal health care for Americans, paying for some of the cost by ending Bush's tax breaks for individuals making more than $200,000 annually.

    Let's see...where do most of the people who make more than $200,000 annually live?

    New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston...in other words, the bluest parts of Blue America.

    In those areas, given the already high levels of state and local taxation, and sky-high housing costs, a $200,000 annual income for a family of four isn't necessarily the ticket to Easy Street. Price a decent house in the Los Angeles metropolitan area some time.

    Yet Mr. Edwards apparently wants to raise their taxes, even though, in the wake of the 2004 election, Blue State residents were complaining that they already pay a disproportionate share of federal expenditures. (Maybe the real problem is that people don't rationally think about the impact of federal policy, or they are dumb enough to believe that the government will tax only Republicans making six-figure annual salaries.)

    The article directly quotes him here: "I don't want to see the fuel efficient cars in the world built someplace else," he said. "They ought to be built right here in Detroit and the United States of America by UAW workers."

    I'm sure his first act as president will be to repeal those federal laws that prevent GM and Ford from building high-quality, fuel-efficient cars here in America.

    Wait, there are no laws that prevent them from doing this right now. Never mind...
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    OK, maybe he will mandate that all Toyota, Honda & Nissan workers in the USA become UAW members. I believe that Mr. Clinton ran on a similar platform of health care for all. Put Mrs. Clinton in charge while he had a Democratic Congress. What happened is health care went up and less people are covered. Mr. Edwards is a prime example of why health care is so expensive. He got rich on malpractice suits.

    Rocky, Edward's would go where ever and tell who ever will listen just what they are wanting to hear. Then go back to his mansion and laugh at the folks he has fooled. The pickin's are mighty slim for 2008. I will probably only go vote to try and keep one of them from winning.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Edwards, is a union mans president. He's more for the working people than any other candidate running. (My opinion) He has plans to help strengthen the Unions in this country and make crossing a picket line illegal. I believe he will not do anything to ruin UAW jobs like some of the others running. His investment plan in alternative energy is to give the automakers more than a billion dollars. This doesn't include the billions more he will invest in other area's to get these alternative energy plans going. Right now it's lip service by other candidates with no hard figures. Where's the money and plan for implementation for the others ? Edwards, said his alternative energy plan will create 1 million new alternative energy jobs. I really didn't want this to be a politcal discussion but was only reporting on what Edwards said about the UAW. It is worth posting stuff related to the subject title isn't it ? If Fred Thompson, McCain, etc, would of said something about the UAW, or job creations in the automobile industry I would post it. I am not that biased. The fact remains not many of the candidates running are talking about domestic issues but Edwards, has ever since he's declared he was running. It always about the war in Iraq, and I for one am tired of listening about that subject. If you don't like this forum you have the right to not leave any comments or skip over the posts. I want to keep this forum focused on the UAW and Automobile industry and thus is the reason why I highlighted the automobile related stuff from Edwards speech. I'm optomistic enough that we can be mature enough to keep this one civil. ;)

    Now more on topic:

    So do any of you think the UAW, will get the Georgetown Kentucky plant unionized ? If so how much longer do you think it will take ? Do you think other transplants will unionize in the near or distant future ?

    Thanks,

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    Every presidential candidate will go to Detroit and promise the moon to the auto workers and especially the UAW. Congress is the ones that decides whether to spend the money. I am a 37 year retired Teamster and 8 years in the CWA before that. I am all for the Unions. I have tried to get my son to take a Union job in Alaska. I just do not believe anything that comes out of the mouth of that candidate. I know how he got rich and believe that IS a major problem in this country. Much of the reason that so many companies go over seas. Edwards cannot have it both ways.

    PS
    I would love nothing better than to see the UAW organize the Toyota plants all across our great land.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Every presidential candidate will go to Detroit and promise the moon to the auto workers and especially the UAW.

    gagrice, I respect your opinion pal. I always have. I love Edwards, as I do think he is the only candidate running who will follow through on his promise to the UAW workers and auto-industry. It's probably a moot point as Hillary and Obama, got the far left in their corner so Edwards, will only be a memory of mine come election time unless for some miracle he can pull it off. :sick:

    Congress is the ones that decides whether to spend the money. I am a 37 year retired Teamster and 8 years in the CWA before that. I am all for the Unions. I have tried to get my son to take a Union job in Alaska.

    This is just one reason why I respect your point of view as you can look at it from my side of the fence. ;) I can understand why your son doesn't want the job based on the descriptions you told me. I wouldn't want my employer having the power telling me I can't have a beer when I'm off the clock. ;)

    I just do not believe anything that comes out of the mouth of that candidate.

    Well I feel most of us don't but in this case his actions speak more than words. His 4 year voting record in the Senate, is something else I have to go on also. ;)

    I know how he got rich and believe that IS a major problem in this country. Much of the reason that so many companies go over seas.

    Well, I don't hate or dislike him for how he got rich. He was doing his job, and if I would of been one of those family's that had their son or daughter hurt or killed via malpractice, I'd want to get something in return as I'd be a basket case and probably would never be able to work again. It's not the patients fault the doctor cut off the wrong leg. This is why we pay these people so much damn money to prevent any accident from happening.

    Edwards cannot have it both ways.

    I don't know what you mean ? I don't see how he is having it both ways ? The guy has always stood up for average folks rights. The UAW, right now is backing him. He has many union supporters around the country. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a guy like Lutz, who is know to shoot off his mouth and makes a move and publicly support him as well ? Sure Edwards, lives in a mansion but at least he isn't so conceded that he doesn't know where he came from. He is a son of a mill worker, and his hard work paid off as he was able to obtain a law degree. He was good at what he did as a trial lawyer and made some money a long the way. Should he of not did his job as well as he could ? :confuse:

    PS
    I would love nothing better than to see the UAW organize the Toyota plants all across our great land.


    Glad we agree.... ;)

    How long do you thing it will take gagrice, for the UAW, to organize Toyota ? Do you see Honda, being the next target ? I think they need to go hit the Alabama, plant as those people are by far making the least amount of money. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    I have been involved in several attempts to organize non union companies in Alaska. The companies spare no expense to try and convince the employees they are better off without a union. It is very difficult to get a large number of employees to vote in a union. Where Toyota has built their plants is a factor. When you are in a Right to work state you limit the effectiveness of a Union. From where I sit I see the standard of living for the working man declining in this country. When this war is over the level of spending on military will be cut drastically by Congress and the economy will go into recession. Whoever is President at the time will be blamed. This housing boom has peaked and is on a down hill slide. In the 1990s it was the Dot.com bubble that burst and left people without good jobs. The UAW will have an opportunity when that happens as Toyota and the others will have to lay off people and will do it as they see fit. This will drive the rank and file to organize for protection. If the UAW wins any elections it will be an uphill battle getting a decent contract. It is tough to negotiate when the economy is in the toilet. Save your money the next 10 years is going to be tough.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Tough times force Big Three, union to scale back tuition, other programs

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070424/AUTO01/704240380&- theme=Autos-UAW

    Rocky

    P.S. Gagrice, I couldn't agree with you more and yes I'll be saving as I feel the sky will fall. :sick:
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    gagrice - I think that you have a fair assessment of the future there, and I agree with almost all your points on the economy. You're also correct that manufacturers dread unionization.

    However, the Japanese have one lever against the UAW that the big 3 didn't have when they were facing unionization -

    Toyota can take it's ball and go home. They're already rumbling about moving some manufacturing back to Japan, but I think that the truth there is that Japan is also too expensive for them nowadays. I see China on the horizon for Toyota (as a threat if nothing else) if unionization pressure gets too strong here. America has passed the point where they will stop buying cars because Toyota moves production to avoid unionization. The people who care about that aren't buying Toyota's now, so there wouldn't be much impact IMHO.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    I agree with you that most of the growth in auto making will be in China. A wide open territory with less controls than either Japan or the USA. India is another emerging industrial power. I think once people give in to the fact that they want a foreign product in this case automobiles. They are not that concerned with where they are built. If anything they prefer them to be built in the country of origin. VW, BMW and MB are classic examples. Most want the German built car vs US or Mexico. I see debate on the Camry board on which is preferable a Japan or KY built Camry.

    100% made in the USA is probably non existent. Parts are out sourced to subs that can go where ever and have the part built. I think it will contribute more and more to reliability issues. It only takes a small electronic sensor to shut you down on the highway. If it comes from a poor source the whole model will have failures. We may long for the day of UNION MADE.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    I agree with some of your assessment, not sure of the doom and gloom of the future. One thing that amazes me is how resilient we Americans are. Yes I think the standard of living of the working man is declining but you also have to adapt to the changing times which means 40 and 50 year olds may need to go back to school. Not sure I agree on the real estate bubble. Houses in my development (60 year old development) are selling within one week at full asking price. New houses are a different story but do we really need so many new developments when perfectly good existing house are all over the place.

    Yes the dot.com and technology stocks burst in 2000 but 7 years later after 9/11, Iraq War, Katrina, Tsunami, a divisive election in 2000, high foreclosure and bankruptcy rates, and record high energy costs, the Dow still reached record levels last week. Unemployment is at historic lows. I can't explain it but it's happening.

    Don't give up on Americans that easy. We are a resilient and resourceful bunch.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    I can probably explain a few things. It will probably take a bit for the housing bubble to burst in your area. Homes that sold for record prices a year ago are now getting price cuts. They are sitting for up to 6 months and more not sold. Foreclosure lists are tremendously long here in So CA. I am looking at a home to buy that sold in 2004 at $332 a foot. I am thinking of offering $275 and afraid I am going too high. Watching the MLS people are cutting the price by $100k after 2 weeks on the market. And still not selling.

    The stock market, what can I say. My 401k is going great and I have no idea why. I guess I will let it go until I have to dip in when I am 70. Oil and military related stocks may be carrying the load.

    Unemployment is an interesting situation both here and in the EU. We are not making children fast enough to fill the jobs. I get called every couple weeks to come out of retirement. I just laugh at them. There is a shortage of skilled craft people. Some over qualified people may not be working. They need to learn how to repair plumbing, electrical or AC. Not all service jobs are at McDonald's. Some pay very well. I have a tough time finding people that want to work. Everyone thinks they are a web site designer.
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    I had an interesting discussion over drinks with a few friends where we tried to determine what jobs can't be outsourced,off-shored, or done by robots.

    It came down to the skilled trades. You can't off-shore a plumber, or an electrician, or a technician who installs or repairs equipment.

    So automotive building may go off-shore, but not automotive repair.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    dtownfb: Your profile says that you live in York, Pa. I live in Harrisburg. The housing market in your area is being held up by people moving out of the Baltimore area into Pennsylvania.

    Here in Harrisburg the market is cooling for homes over $200,000. Homes between $150,000-200,000 are still selling well, but it's only a matter of time before there is downward pressure on homes in that price range, too.

    Also remember that Gagrice lives in Southern California, which was on the leading edge of the housing bubble, and is now on the leading edge as it deflates.

    Southern California doesn't just lead in automotive trends.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,035
    I am surprised that you have homes for $200k. I just looked at a foreclosure on a 1 bdrm 1 bath condo. It is 606 sq ft and the guy owes $231k to the lender. For someone that bought an $800k home the beginning of last year and was hoping to sell before his interest rate went up the bubble has burst. That same home will sit for months at $650k today. I have seen this happen before in Alaska and Hawaii. Never to this extent in California. The Lenders that do not go bankrupt will be in the minority.

    College is good. I would also give equal weight to trade schools. Auto mechanics that are good at analyzing problems in todays cars will be in short supply. I would recommend the electricians Union and the plumbers and pipefitters Union. Both very good pay and benefits.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    That's one reason it's nice to live here. Decent housing is affordable. We just don't have the beach nearby, or warm weather in January and February.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    I read all of these housing reports and they always point to CA, NJ, NY, etc. I live in south central PA. Our market is dictated by folks who are looking for affordable housing from Maryland. They are willing to travel 45 minutes to be able to afford a decent house and low crime. Once they decide to continue the light rail from Hunt Valley to Harrisburg, I don't see an end in the near future. heck it's been going on around here for over a decade.

    Totally agree with you regarding lack of skilled craft people. We are pushing too many students to college who really don't know what they want to do and we expect them to find out while sitting in a classroom with a bunch of other 18 & 19 year olds (yes I work at a college). You can make a nice career for yourself as a carpenter, mechanic, plumber, etc. For some reason folks look down at these jobs...until they need one.
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