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United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    You know the area well. I work in Towson (not for too much longer). there are people who want affordable housing in a safe neighborhood. You can't find $200k homes in Baltimore city or county. Whereas in York, you can move down the street from me, live in a 50-60 year old 3 bedroom, 2 bath house for a hair over $200k. And it is the best rated public school district in the county and only trails Derry Twp. and Camp Hill for the area. if you want one with a few problems you can find tons for $100-150k. This trend has been going on here since the mid 90's.

    The homes in the $150-$200 will always be popular as those are the entry level houses for young couples, single folks and people looking to get out of the city, first time home buyers, etc. Always will be a market for these buyers.

    Of course Southern Cal is a slightly bigger market. But my point is there is a legitimate reason for the housing demand in my area. And just because it happens in CA, NY and NJ, does not make it so everywhere else. I never understood why housing prices in CA were so high. Of course, I don't understand a lot of things about CA.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    I agree with you. There is no good reason for the average home in San Diego to cost $624,000. The saddest part is so many people get sucked into unscrupulous loans. Loans they have no way of paying. Economics are no longer heeded with income to loan ratios. I have friends and relatives that are in negative ARM loans that they take from the equity each month. That cannot go on for long. It is easy to walk away when you have no equity.

    Hopefully the influx into your area will not bring with it the crime and problems.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    lenders, brokers and agents who are not being upfront with people buying houses with these ARM loans that explode on them.

    I remember Talk-Net radio host Bruce Williams always saying to his listeners "never buy a house without a competent real-estate lawyer representing you!"

    Even without a lawyer people need to read the fine print of their loan terms. Make 'em wait for you to read your loan papers at closing, if must come down to that-ask many questions-it's your money involved here!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    That is good advice and it goes for all loans. I got sucked into one of those GM auto loans about 20 years ago that you paid all the interest up front. So when you went to sell the car you did not have the equity you thought you did. When I discovered that dirty little secret I just kept it until it was paid off. I have never borrowed on a vehicle since, unless I had the cash to pay it off.

    PS
    If you have to borrow use your Credit UNION!!!
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    You are very correct lokki. ;) Good discussions guys but let's try to keep it a bit more automotive related please. :)

    Thanks,

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    I think the big question is will Unions survive much longer? I think it can go either way. If they trim down and get a real strong work ethic for their members they have a chance. Many Unions get the reputation of being feather bedders. The Union needs to police its rank and file members. Use the e-board to discipline members that are not carrying their weight. Make themselves an asset to the company not a burden. It is a two way street.

    I am not sure the UAW is doing all they can to weed out poor workers. One poor worker can infect the whole crew.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I think unions will survive because of the way company's are treating employees today. I think their will be a change in laws like the "right to work" ones which will help. The bottom line is if the UAW, is able to organize Toyota, and other automobile manufactors doing business here in the U.S. that might encourage others to follow suit.

    I think as things get tougher for the middle class, I think the more labor unions will be formed. I do think Toyota, is a important step for labor unions like the UAW. :)

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    I agree with you on the credit union thing. Excellent advice-my wife and I use my Boeing Employee's Credit Union and in fact are utilizing a Home Equity Loan from them right now with a great fixed rate that I couldn't get very easily through big behemoth bank.

    We bought a house for a great price(that helped make the '08 Lancer GTS purchase a reality!)but the house is as old as I am and was a rental house for a while. Everything needed done can be done and we're on it but BECU is enabling us to get more for our money and give us an updated older home.

    There's no games and no hidden charges, etc. Just a sound way to borrow-credit unions...the best rates to be had anywhere.

    I was a union member at Boeing but didn't always agree with the members on strike issues. Nonetheless, I can't really be overly critical of the Seattle Professional Engineering Employees' Association and the clout that went along with it. It was a great job with a solid company, only Boeing is quick to pull the layoff trigger and overlooks the personal side of the business. Yes, I know it's a business but people are a strong commodity and Boeing management can be so stone cold it's ridiculous. I left Boeing in 2003 with a strong determination inside to never, ever get sucked in to going back there. I find the personal involvement of the Allied Health professions to be much more satisfying. And that is one of the reasons I re-trained in health care.

    It can have some strong frustrations yet it pays well and the work is steady and you do help people get better from injuries and serious health problems...and you are right there at the head of the bed for life emergencies..we are all about breathing in Respiratory Therapy. I must say, though, the job is not a job for everyone.

    As for the UAW, I think that they could become strong again, especially with a GM that is better-fortified to fight the imports. I still remain skeptical of the domestic's overall chances at long-term success, not because I want them to fail, but because they have such a long fight ahead against the Korean and Japanese makes. The German's are not a strong enough big car number's threat, the China's and South Korea's and Japan may very well spell the end of Ford, GM and DCX, and the UAW will only be able to sniff, spit and growl into the fierce Midwest winds in dismay when the curtain falls down on them.

    GM is diversifying enough in Asia and their pickup of Daewoo in 2002 was simply a brilliant move, quite possibly their smartest move in the 2000's. So they will no doubt remain with a stronger emphasis on the offshore building and selling. The UAW's demands are not much but a big annoyance, nothing that will totally cause the domestics to fall, although Ford may be a sad exception there. Their demands can come at some of the worst times and we have seen some of that in these 2000's, eh?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    iluv,

    I like I said respect your career choice pal. I'm sure you get good satisfaction from helping others and I applaud you for picking a career like the one your in. :)

    The UAW and big 3 will not fall. If you check out my last post in the "Article Comments Kiss the American Auto Industry Good-Bye (as We Know It)" forum, you will see a bill that should pass and become law to help the big 3 survive on a more level playing field. This is the way it should be anyways but our government has ignored some very important domestic issues for to long. :(

    The UAW, will severely loosen their work rules to save jobs. I however predict they will ask in return for more investments=more jobs if they sign off on this. If Stabenow, get's her bill passed you will see a rush to the U.S. border to cross back into the United States. I do think placing tariffs on the country's that under-value their currency and tariffing foreign made products will create jobs back here at home. Toyota, will continue it's investment here in America, and the UAW, will push to organize them I also predict the UAW, will target honda, as well and if they are able to conquer Toyota, Honda, will be more willing to take in the UAW. So just maybe in my opinion we can save america's back bone the working middle class like you, I, and many others who roam these forums. :)

    Just my $0.02

    Rocky
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    You identified part of the problem. People have bitten off more then they could chew, lenders have relaxed the requirements too much and these crazy loans. i almost fell out of my chair when I heard about interest only loans several years ago.

    gagrice, you are welcome to move to my neighborhood. Of course you will have a hard time finding a good avocado dip.
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    You are very correct lokki. Good discussions guys but let's try to keep it a bit more automotive related please.


    Ouch !
    That left a mark!

    Touche' Rockylee! You score! ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    That was directed at myself also. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Tuesday, April 10, 2007

    Once again, U.S. trade officials have gone to the negotiating table and reached a terrific deal -- for the other side.

    The proposed U.S. Korea Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached in the middle of the night in South Korea on April 2 as President Bush's negotiators rushed to meet a deadline for notifying Congress about the deal.

    Days later, we still don't know all the details -- but what we know doesn't look good.

    The U.S.-Korea FTA fails the most elementary test of any reasonable trade deal: It's not reciprocal.

    The United States currently has a $14 billion trade deficit with South Korea, of which $11.6 billion is accounted for by a deficit in auto trade. Yet, this agreement does nothing to fix this imbalance.

    The United States has promised to eliminate or phase out tariffs on cars and pick-up trucks -- but Korea won't take meaningful, enforceable action to eliminate the non-tariff trade barriers which have shut U.S. vehicles out of their market for years.

    A day after the pact was announced, Hyundai announced a plan to import more pick up trucks to the U.S. Ford and Chrysler, meanwhile, have both stated their opposition because they won't get a fair chance to sell their products in Korea.

    The U.S.-Korea FTA will put thousands of good-paying U.S. manufacturing jobs at risk. Just as disturbing, the treaty states that the United States will in the future "consider" including goods manufactured in the North Korean industrial zone of Kaesong.

    This would mean importing goods made by workers who labor as indentured servants for one of the world's most repressive regimes. Others are also opposed to this deeply flawed trade pact, including Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., Rep. Sander Levin, D-Mich., and the National Cattelman's Beef Association, which is not satisfied with the limited access granted to South Korean markets.

    The U.S.-Korea FTA does not include core labor rights as an enforceable part of the agreement. Our colleagues in the Korean Metalworkers union are routinely harassed and jailed, and the United States should not grant increased access to our markets to a country that does not respect universally recognized labor rights.

    Workers and citizens in the United States and South Korea deserve better. This agreement should be fully examined in the light of day -- and rejected, in favor of a more inclusive, democratic approach that builds in real protection for workers, consumers, and the environment.

    http://www.uaw.org/atissue/atstory.cfm?atId=182

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    So what do you guys think about the un free trade agreement with South Korea ? :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    http://www.iue-cwa.org/news/page.jsp?itemID=28464117

    I really can't believe it's a one-way street with all these trade agreements. :mad: I can understand why the union's are throwing a huge fit. Where is small business ?

    What benefit, to the U.S. does a agreement like this have ? You can buy a Hyundai, cheaper ? A Samsung cheaper ? What benefit does this trade agreement give to the american worker ? Well I guess a Chevy Aveo, just got cheaper once this is passed. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "...but Korea won't take meaningful, enforceable action to eliminate the non-tariff trade barriers which have shut U.S. vehicles out of their market for years."

    Just out of curiousity, precisely what ARE these "non-tariff trade barriers" that affect the UAW?
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    Those Korean companies should be building their pickup trucks here in Mississippi like Nissan does, or in Texas like Toyota does!
  • lemonhaterlemonhater Posts: 110
    The small business that are smart are looking to export their products and services to Korea. As korea's markets open we gain a place to sell our goods and services.

    We also gain by being able to import goods and services at a lower price. We can spend our money elsewhere rather than buying expensive cars and electronics. Another plus for the economy.

    On a whole it is a plus for the whole economy and may create many good paying jobs.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    On a whole it is a plus for the whole economy and may create many good paying jobs.

    I'm yet to see a un free trade agreement like this one create good paying jobs ???? NAFTA is a failure. CAFTA, will be a bigger failure. This one will make your Samsung's and Hykia's a little cheaper even though they also under value their currency. I'm yet to see how and where this will create good paying jobs ?

    Like lokki, said if we would put up barrier's like almost every other country does to us we might create good paying jobs as they would be forced to build their products here. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemonhaterlemonhater Posts: 110
    It creates thoose jobs because now consumners can spend their money on other stuff. Good paying manufactoring jobs might take a hit. But then again the people who saved thousands on the hykias can buy that much more goods and services. You can now afford to dine out more often or perhaps. Creating jobs not just for waiters and resturant staff, but also for the white collar workers.

    You could invest it in a fast growing company that will in turn use the money to hire more workers.

    Perhaps you will use the money to remodel your house more often. Creating jobs for plumbers, electricains ect.

    In addition there are more jobs on earth than manufatoring. And importing manufactored goods isn't always cheaper than prodicing it locally.

    Also cheap is not the only way to the consumers heart. Toyota and Honda are not cheap to purchase. GM and Ford are cheaper, yet toyhonda manage to sell more and more cars. Rightly or wrongly people percive that spending their money on a Toyota will be a better use of money than a chevy. Either the Toyota will be more fuel effceint, safer, better package, stylish, or reliable than the Chevy. What ever the reason people are willing to spend on Toyota rather than Chevy and it has nothing to do with the price of the car.

    And honeslty I can see why. GM's small cars have a reputation for being bad. So GM fails to lure in young buyers.

    GM's large cars are better, but the folks who want to buy a Buick and Cadalaic are not the bread and butter market. Honestly until peopele again think of Chevy as a good value, GM will be a bit player.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    lemonhater,

    I also see those service jobs getting exported to India, as well. Sure unemployment is low but people are making less today in real wages than they were a decade plus ago and that includes company's cuts in benefits and the overall cost of living. Wages have not even came close to keeping up.

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,196
    Maybe more jobs are being created, but you'll need to work two or three of these low-wage jobs to survive.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    Wages have not kept up with inflation for the last 40 years. I made $11k in 1970 working for the phone company. I was able to buy a new home for $25k and a new PU truck for $2000.

    In 2005 I made $105k the same house 36 years later is selling for $650k and a new PU truck for $30k. Food and gas have not hit us as bad as the big items.

    To keep up with inflation I should have been making $250K plus a year.

    UAW members are not over paid. Upper level managers are over paid. CEOs are way overpaid. Workers need to unite if they want to survive. Not just at Toyota, but Wally World, Kroger & Safeway. I think if you look closely the only large companies that appreciate their employees are the oil companies. They have managed to keep out most Unions by paying good wages and benefits. Microsoft is also an exception, paying higher than average to keep good employees.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    Gagrice,

    We pay less, in inflation adjusted dollars, for food and clothing then we did in 1960.

    Gasoline hit its peak price - adjusted for inflation - in March 1981. It may have finally bested that price since last year.

    Housing is another matter entirely, but that is based on factors such as demographics, speculation by "flippers" and the self-segregation of people into certain neighborhoods, based on the quality of schools and crime rates.

    For example, I recall reading that a house in the Benedict Canyon area of Beverly Hills sold for $82,000 in the mid-1960s. My parents' built their home in 1966 in central Pennsylvania, and the cost was $25,000 - or a little less than 1/3 the price of the Beverly Hills house.

    Fast forward to the mid-1990s, and the Beverly Hills house sold for over $2 million. Is my parents' house worth a little less than 1/3 of that price? No way, and they don't live in a depressed area. Quite the opposite. Something more than the rate of inflation is pushing up the price of Southern California real estate, and it isn't just occurring in the posh sections of Southern California.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    The areas I am most familiar with Alaska, California and Hawaii have all gone crazy. I can tell you another reason for CA prices besides the flippers and lending institutions is retirees. Many folks want to live where it is warm. The Southwest offers that. As prices escalated in So Ca they have moved to Phoenix and Las Vegas. We were under built in the 1990s and now the pendulum is swinging the other way.

    It is all over California. There are many cities now that have to subsidize teachers and police housing so they can afford to live where they work. Silicon Valley being the prime example.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    gagrice,

    Man $11 an hour in 1970, would make you a very well off finacially. Holy Smokes, those wages were almost un heard of back then weren't they ? It's been nice and educational listening to you old timers on past prices as my family has really never put it into perspective like you guys have taught me. If I could of go back into the past and gobbled up real estate for my family back in the 1960's I'd be rich today. :)

    How much did a Cadillac cost in the early 70's ? I know UAW workers made good but they weren't leading the pack in wages as so many other company's made more than them. However they weren't poor either. I can only put it in perspective of my childhood as our new home in 1986' in Wayland, Mi. I thing dad paid $62,000. That same home is probably worth now $120K+. My mom in step-dad in 92 or 93 baught their home for $77K in Wyoming, Mi. Now that same home is worth between $160-$170K. :surprise: I know UAW wages or wages in general have not even came close to keep up with the cost of living. It's crazy. My father's property he baught from my grandparents on the lake in the late 90's has more than doubled. It's like worth 2 1/2 times what he paid for it. :surprise: However my dad and step-dad almost have it paid for from what I understand. :)

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    I made $11,000 for the year. My hourly was only $5.25 I think a Cadillac was around $7000 in 1970. It was not a car I could afford. The early 1970s were very high growth. Houses went up very fast. I am sure the UAW guys were making more than I was. I moved to Alaska and doubled my wages in one year. Houses were double also. I bought a new Datsun PU in Anchorage for $2200 in 1971.

    An interesting turn of events was the Company that hired me and brought me to Alaska, RCA Global Communications wanted us to go Teamsters, which we did. They found it easier to deal with one wage scale in each classification.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    So are you a retired Teamster, gagrice ? If so you have one helluva a pension, as my uncle is getting close to retirement and his pension is quite a bit better than my fathers. ;)

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    My retirement is pretty good. I have a friend that retired just before I did from the Operating Engineers. He gets $7200 a month and is only 54 years old. He was to the point it made no sense to work. He has a beautiful home here in Hawaii and one in Alaska. Most kids today are just not in tuned to getting a good job that has good retirement benefits. If they were you would see them uniting against these mega corporations. If you have to work for someone else make sure you get some kind of retirement plan. Then leave it in place do not spend it. I see people pulling money out to buy a car or house too many times.
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