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United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: US 25 & US 40Posts: 18,915
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    Thought sure you were going to be talking about a different union at first glance.

    United Steelworkers on strike at BP Whiting refinery (wgntv.com)

    "Analysts don’t expect the strike to have an effect on local gasoline prices."

    That's a laugher. :D

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,557

    “After three months of union slowdowns, it makes no sense to pay extra for less work,” said PMA spokesman Wade Gates, “especially if there is no end in sight to the union’s actions which needlessly brought West Coast ports to the brink of gridlock.”

    Time to start hiring all those illegals that Obama is giving the green light to. They are hard workers and can learn to operate a crane for a heck of a lot less than $150k a year.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 46,765
    edited February 9
    Immigrants always bring fresh energy into a country, that's true. That's why they come here---to work. But you know, all those UAW workers who rode with the automakers from the heights of the roller coaster in the 50s to the depths of it in the 80s---they were mostly the sons of immigrants.

    I guess you struggle to make it, and when you're comfortable, you don't want to struggle again.

    Everybody wants to be understood.

    Everybody wants you to see things from their point of view.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,557
    edited February 16
    This is a good read on WHY people don't like Unions.

    The UAW Won’t Leave

    In the northwestern corner of Alabama is the tiny town of Hamilton, where the folks who work for the big ball-bearing company, NTN-Bower, are having a tough time. The majority of the workers don’t want to be represented by the United Auto Workers union anymore but the UAW, in typical fashion, is refusing to leave.

    So the NTN-Bower employees will have an unprecedented fourth vote on February 20th in yet another attempt to cast out the union that so desperately needs members. UAW officials were able to persuade the National Labor Relations Board to dismiss the first two votes by the employees and, when a third vote was taken on January 16 of this year, the union finally won.

    But, once again, there was a discrepancy – 139 workers voted but 148 ballots were found in the box. Imagine that. Only 140 workers at NTN-Bower are eligible to vote.

    The vast majority of those in the Chattanooga area are “anti-union” after organized labor nearly ruined Chattanooga 50 years ago. Many can still recall when there was little industry in what is now a vibrant city. As Deb Emster so succinctly put it, “The union rabble rousers need to get out of Tennessee. They are not welcome. They are not good neighbors. They are thugs and institutions of evil."

    “The unions of today do no good to anyone but themselves,” she said. “They pocket the money they collect and it is skimmed by the mafia. Thuggery, mafia, meanness and evil is not Tennessee. Now these bad people need to get out of here and go back to the hell holes they came from.”

    http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/2/5/293426/Roy-Exum-The-UAW-Wont-Leave.aspx
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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    Had to look him up - name rang a dim bell. His family owned one of the papers there when I lived there. Old Lookout Mountain money. Something tells me he cherry picked a few quotes. :D

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,557
    edited February 17
    stever said:

    Had to look him up - name rang a dim bell. His family owned one of the papers there when I lived there. Old Lookout Mountain money. Something tells me he cherry picked a few quotes. :D

    Not surprising. Is there any honest journalism left? He wasn't far off about the place. I know when I was there about 40 years ago it seemed like a dirty dead place. Black soot all over from coal fires. Kind of reminded me of someplace Charles Dickens would describe. The people have every right to be skeptical of Unions. How many Unions throughout the USA have taken money from the members for their pension funds that are likely not going to be there when they retire? I know ours is better off than many. But they had to do some serious cutting to keep it solvent over the years. When my employer first started paying into the pension fund we had 100% medical, dental and eye care for Life. About 25 years later they quit paying health care for retirees completely. They did away with the COL increases. What you get when you retire, you get till you die. To cover your spouse when you die cuts into your pension big time. Many promises made in 1971 when we joined the Teamsters that were not kept. Maybe the workers in Alabama will get an honest election out of the NLRB on their 4th try.

    Workers at the factory have held three elections, including two NLRB votes, to determine whether or not to remain in the union since 2013. Alabama is a right-to-work state and does not allow forced unionization. NTN-Bower employs 140 workers at the factory who are union eligible, but only 76 pay union dues to Local 1990, according to 2013 federal labor filings.

    UAW Local 1990, which represents the workers, collected about $38,000 in dues from its members in 2013. It spent $17,000 on staff, officers, and administrative costs. The majority of the money was turned over to the national UAW for per capita taxes.


    http://freebeacon.com/issues/workers-try-to-boot-union-for-fourth-time-after-rigged-election/
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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    edited February 17
    You wouldn't recognize the place now. I barely do.... Well, Lookout hasn't changed much, but that's about it.

    See Ruby Falls. B)

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  • berriberri Posts: 4,468
    Heck, the Longshoremen on the west coast make the UAW look benign. I think the gov puts up with way too much from them while they hurt the economy and other's living. I read the average dock worker on the west coast takes in something like $147K per year. So why does the gov tolerate this crap? I know - payola (oops, I mean PAC money and campaign contributions).
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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,557
    The longshoremen have always been the prima donna union. What they have been doing is slacking off to force more weekend work. The Port people have finally had enough. Without any OT, a low level grunt will make $73,000 per year. For every additional job you qualify for you get a percentage higher on your hourly. the base is $35 per hour. If you run a crane it is 30% more which is $45.50 per hour. The PMA offered increases on the base to $40 per hour. And Pension from $80k per year up to $88k per year. They also have the gold plated 100% health care plan. Heck as a Teamster we lost our 100% plan in the late 1970s. This is not about money. It is about more control of who hauls containers in and out of the port.

    I can tell you the UAW members in Michigan will be taking advantage of the right to work laws if the Union does not end the two tier system. It is not right to be doing the same job making $15 per hour when the old timer is making $28 per hour. They need to compromise and pay all full time about $22. That would be about equal with what VW & other transplants are paying their employees after 3 years.
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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    I knew a longshoreman in Anchorage. From what he told me you couldn't get a job unless you knew someone or were related to someone already in the union. There was no way you could apply for a job at the port, get hired and then join the union - the union told the port who they could hire. Pretty closed society.

    Still wouldn't want his job though - he got hurt on the job and was stove up pretty bad last time I heard anything about him.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    VW recognizes anti-UAW worker group ACE at Tennessee plan (Reuters)

    "The ACE is an alternative to and has campaigned against the UAW union, which a year ago lost an election to be the sole representative of workers at the plant.

    The ACE proved to an outside auditor it had achieved support from at least 15 percent of the plant's hourly and salaried workers, VW said. The UAW two months ago proved support from at least 45 percent of hourly workers at the plant and also represents workers there.

    The VW policy allows increasing levels of access to plant management based on a group's support level. The UAW at 45 percent has more access to management than the ACE at 15 percent."

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,557
    I really wonder if VW USA wants the UAW. Or if it is just pressure from German unions? Whatever the open shop concept that VW has made is brilliant IMO. It says hey we will work with any group. Just don't want to be showing favoritism. I don't think UAW wants another vote. If they lost it would be even bigger than last time. They were hoping Obama would try to push that Card Check BS through. No vote needed if you have 50% of the workforce signed up. ACE is also showing some initiative opening up their "Union" to everyone. It is fun to watch.
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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    Well, the UAW's group represents 45% of the workers, and the way I read the article, VW gives them more face time than the 15 percenters. No idea whether that extra translates into any additional influence by the UAW.

    I really need to make a trip home and chat up my nephew who works for one of the auto suppliers down there. Funny when the weather is in the high 60s instead of single digits, the urge to leave town just isn't that strong. Seems like we were going to TN every four or five months from the UP. :)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,557
    stever said:

    Well, the UAW's group represents 45% of the workers, and the way I read the article, VW gives them more face time than the 15 percenters. No idea whether that extra translates into any additional influence by the UAW.

    I really need to make a trip home and chat up my nephew who works for one of the auto suppliers down there. Funny when the weather is in the high 60s instead of single digits, the urge to leave town just isn't that strong. Seems like we were going to TN every four or five months from the UP. :)

    We have had the nicest winter in San Diego I can ever remember. Makes it hard to leave or think about moving. Last 3 weeks 75-85 and never below 50 at night. We had one cold snap in December and hit 32 one night with about 3 nights in the mid 30s. The desert SW is nice in the winter.

    The UAW says they have about 50% signed into the pseudo union local. If it was really true why haven't they asked for another NLRB vote? If ACE keeps signing up hourly and salaried workers, it should muddy the playing field real good. Like the ACE leader said a large part of the employees do not want any union ACE or UAW. I also wonder how many of the people signing up are Temps from the agency? I don't think they would be allowed to vote in an election.

    The ACE proved to an outside auditor it had achieved support from at least 15 percent of the plant's hourly and salaried workers, VW said. The UAW two months ago proved support from at least 45 percent of hourly workers at the plant and also represents workers there.

    Moss said he hopes the ACE can convince anti-UAW workers who are anti-union to join his group. But, he said, it is difficult to convince anti-union workers to join any worker group.


    All the UAW is after is the $$$$. With 1500 dues payers they could send about half a million a year back to Michigan. Add to the fact VW is not selling that many Passats from the TN plant. VW sold 96k Passats in 2014 down from 109k in 2013. VW also made less net profit in 2014 than 2013. They let rival Toyota take back the profit crown. Not sure that will put VW in a generous mood if UAW comes in like the bullies they were in the past. I just don't see any UAW advantage for the workers.
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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    I'm reading this out front catching the morning sun. Even though it's 44°F, I'm in shorts and had to strip my hoodie off. Kind of fun reading about batteries dying in Boston in a schadenfreude kind of way.

    Hadn't seen that about the Passat. But I gave up on trying to figure out VW years ago. It was a bit of an eye-opener when they Americanized it while decontenting it and it sold like hotcakes. VW fans weren't fooled though I guess.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    edited February 17
    Good point. Seems like VW has been on a 7+ year refresh cycle forever.

    Back in the VW Bug days, that was a big selling point.

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  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,850
    edited February 20
    robr2 said:

    stever said:

    Hadn't seen that about the Passat. But I gave up on trying to figure out VW years ago. It was a bit of an eye-opener when they Americanized it while decontenting it and it sold like hotcakes. VW fans weren't fooled though I guess.

    The problem with the Passat is that VW hasn't really updated since it's introduction in 2012. It's the 4th year of production with barely any real changes to styling, options, et al. The biggest issue is it's staid styling. Since introduction, it's styling has been trumped by the Fusion, Accord, Camry, et al. The styling is inoffensive but the market isn't looking for that. Even VW has acknowledged that.

    My thoughts with VW is that I always liked them in spite of their issues. The positives were Germanic driving, simple but very nice interiors, excellent handling. The negatives were poor dealer service network, low reliability, and high repair costs.

    Since their "Americanization", they are bland, not nice inside, not good driving (I'm talking to you Jetta). Yet still unreliable and costly repairs at a poor dealer network. IMHO the disadvantages remain while the advantages went away. If I want a boring dull cr@p sedan I can always buy a Corolla and get excellent reliability instead. I liked the previous model Passat a lot better than the current big bland one.

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  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,518
    tlong said:

    robr2 said:

    stever said:

    Hadn't seen that about the Passat. But I gave up on trying to figure out VW years ago. It was a bit of an eye-opener when they Americanized it while decontenting it and it sold like hotcakes. VW fans weren't fooled though I guess.

    The problem with the Passat is that VW hasn't really updated since it's introduction in 2012. It's the 4th year of production with barely any real changes to styling, options, et al. The biggest issue is it's staid styling. Since introduction, it's styling has been trumped by the Fusion, Accord, Camry, et al. The styling is inoffensive but the market isn't looking for that. Even VW has acknowledged that.

    My thoughts with VW is that I always liked them in spite of their issues. The positives were Germanic driving, simple but very nice interiors, excellent handling. The negatives were poor dealer service network, low reliability, and high repair costs.

    Since their "Americanization", they are bland, not nice inside, not good driving (I'm talking to you Jetta). Yet still unreliable and costly repairs at a poor dealer network. IMHO the disadvantages remain while the advantages went away. If I want a boring dull cr@p sedan I can always buy a Corolla and get excellent reliability instead. I liked the previous model Passat a lot better than the current big bland one.

    Try the new '15 GTI, it has a nice interior, drives nice, and should be quite reliable as it's basically my '06 A3 now with all the kinks worked out, all the fine tuning perfected, and still at a lower price.

    For real fun get the new Golf R.
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  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,518
    How much would it cost the UAW and Chrysler to send a check to every former Neon owner in the USA (that is still alive) for the entire purchase price of said Neon? It would be the honorable thing for them to do.


    1. 1st cars not maintained by their owners well you say.. NOPE, I babied it.

    2. Meant to be cheap? Well, it was $15K out the door for the fully loaded Neon Sport.

    3. Driven hard by young drivers... Yes, but if Big 3 Cars can't be driven then perhaps they should be designed with rev limiters at 3K RPM?????
    4. Let's just be honest and admit the Neon was a scam on the American people.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,557
    How much would it cost the UAW and Chrysler to send a check to every former Neon owner in the USA (that is still alive) for the entire purchase price of said Neon? It would be the honorable thing for them to do.


    You must have been one of the unfortunate ones that bought a UAW built Neon. I hear the Mexican built ones are still going strong in the third World. :p
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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,360
    edited February 22
    andres3 said:

    How much would it cost the UAW and Chrysler to send a check to every former Neon owner in the USA (that is still alive) for the entire purchase price of said Neon? It would be the honorable thing for them to do.



    1. 1st cars not maintained by their owners well you say.. NOPE, I babied it.

    2. Meant to be cheap? Well, it was $15K out the door for the fully loaded Neon Sport.

    3. Driven hard by young drivers... Yes, but if Big 3 Cars can't be driven then perhaps they should be designed with rev limiters at 3K RPM?????
    4. Let's just be honest and admit the Neon was a scam on the American people.

    Man are you still harping on this car your parents bought 20 years ago? In the words of Elsa - let it go.
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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: US 25 & US 40Posts: 18,915
    robr2 said:

    andres3 said:

    How much would it cost

    Man are you still harping on this car your parents bought 20 years ago? In the words of Elsa - let it go.
    X2

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    Begs the age-old (in here) question of whether the problem was how it was screwed together, or design/engineering issues or supplier problems.

    Interesting article in the Washington Post today on Walker and RTW, at least related to public unions.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,557
    stever said:

    Begs the age-old (in here) question of whether the problem was how it was screwed together, or design/engineering issues or supplier problems.

    Interesting article in the Washington Post today on Walker and RTW, at least related to public unions.

    The laws Walker pushed through were PRO TAX PAYER more than anti Union. I wish we had a Governor willing to take on the State controlling Unions. CA Tax Payers are looking at long term debt to the Union pension funds of somewhere between $400 to $700 billion. We are struggling to keep up with our debt obligations. RTW is more of a carrot to entice business to move into the state. If a person wants to stay in the union, they can stay in the Union. RTW only keeps the Union bosses looking out for the workers more than their own self interests.
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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: US 25 & US 40Posts: 18,915
    edited February 23
    The piece is an early political hit piece, a la Governor Romney, from the Post. It's meant to stir
    up the unions that Walker as a candidate for President might decimate them again nationally in some
    way--sort of Bain-like activity.

    However, even though there is a primarily political message with sudden interest in Governor Walker, can't feel sorry for the unions. Those poor folks who had a 10% loss in take home pay?... They had their total retirement from the state paid for by the taxpayers. Their healthcare was totally paid for, if I understood correctly, in work years and retirement. Note, they also paid SS and Medicare.

    The last folks I heard about getting total healthcare payments were the union boss equivalents in the Ohio teachers association (not union). The field workers who helped negotiate for teachers were negotiating with their own bosses in the OEA and were negotiating for full healthcare to be kept. This at the same time they were telling teachers' local associations (not unions) to accept increases from maybe 10% teacher paid to 20% teacher paid.

    That's typical of the unions. Not sure what unions were discussed but a Louisville talk radio program had folks in the know on the program. They said while the workers' retirement funds were 70-80% funded, the separate fund for the folks who were union bosses and running the union was 103% funded.

    If the unions provide services or merit, RTW is not a threat. However, the union management parallels our national governmen(and California?) with the leaders in golden goose, lifetime jobs, and the working stiffs and taxpayers footing the bill.
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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    >If the unions provide services or merit, RTW is not a threat.

    That was what I took from the article - membership rates fell in half, and across party lines. Biggest gripe I'd have if I moved (back) to Wisconsin is that they exempted police and fire unions.

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: US 25 & US 40Posts: 18,915
    edited February 23
    stever said:

    >If the unions provide services or merit, RTW is not a threat.

    That was what I took from the article - membership rates fell in half, and across party lines. Biggest gripe I'd have if I moved (back) to Wisconsin is that they exempted police and fire unions.

    In Michigan, union membership has dropped in some of the weaker unions by a good amount. The more radical unions are able to strong arm their potential dropouts to keep paying. The threat of peer relation is a big factor.

    Our friends who recently moved to NW corner of SC (Walhalla) talk about how continually companies are moving in there with jobs and plants because of the low wages due to no unions. They are relatively close to Greenville. Those are jobs that don't go to Michigan or Ohio.
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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 43,615
    edited February 23
    Companies who marginalize their workers these days may have a bigger threat to worry about than unions. Imagine if all those Walmart workers talked on the internet (they do). And imagine is someone tweeted about a flash mob nationwide to do a sickout over pay and it took hold.

    Just who would Walmart negotiate with to get their workers (any sympathetic customers) back as they bleed green ink?

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