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Things You'd Like to See Revived In Cars
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Comments
Too bad we can't have these in the PT Cruiser!
Wouldn't the lubrication in the modern fittings wear out eventually?
-Andre
I just wandered over from the Subaru Crew and see that new posts are seldom made here. My daily driver is a 2000 Subaru Forester but my hobby car is a 1963 Studebaker Lark 4-door sedan. It'll never be worth anything, but it's loads of fun to drive, easy to work on, relatively easy to find parts for, and a real nostalgia trip for anyone over 35. (Younger folks don't have a clue what it is; they think either AMC, Rolls or Mercedes, I kid you not.) I bought it 2 years ago to settle the estate of its 2nd owner; it was sitting behind a barn with 58,000 documented miles and two canteloupe-sized rust holes through the floor. Basically I saved it from the crusher.
Anyway, I ramble. Studebaker built a neat rig called the Lark Wagonaire (later just Wagonaire) froom 1963-66. It's a 4-door station wagon in which the rear portion of the roof - from the rear doors to the tailgate - could slide forward, effectively creating an open cargo bed out of the cargo area.
It's hard to find a solid Wagonaire these days, as the sliding roofs were prone to leaking and the infamous Studebaker rust would shortly ensue. However, with today's technology I think any number of manufacturers could duplicate this feature. In some respects the Chevy Avalanche and Subaru ST-X concepts come close, but the closest thing I've seen to it in a modern car is on the last generation BMW 5-series Touring.
Given the ongoing blurring of lines between car, truck, and SUV, reviving the Wagonaire concept seems a natural. Reviving Studebaker is another story...
Ed
And I mean a small car, though...not a car that looks like a beached whale.
-Andre
I hope the LS isn't the wave of cars to come, though. A co-worker has one, and I have never been in a car that was that cramped inside, considering its exterior dimensions. My co-worker is 5'7", and puts the seat all the way back. I'm 6'3", so I can't even fit in the thing! And it's just about as bad in the back seat. They put his CD changer in the glove box, so it has minimal storage space inside. It has about the same trunk space as most cars a foot shorter.
As far as looks go, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder, and I kind of like the LS, although it's more derivative than trend-setting. The front makes me think of a cross between a Pontiac and a Mitsubishi, and the rear end looks a lot like an Olds Alero.
Oh, and as for the quality of the LS, my friend's had to have the tranny replaced within a few months, and the cooling fan has failed on him twice already. Maybe my friend was just got a bad example, but if I paid $30K + for a new car, it had better be dang near flawless!
Maybe if I had the income for a high-priced car, (and I was a few inches shorter) I'd look at it in a better light. But hey Lincoln...nice try! And I'd take one over a Versailles anyday!
-Andre
Obviously, my uncle hasn't been keeping up on them, though. When I told him about the waiting lists, the gouging, etc, and the fact that you could only get a 4 cyl, and how small they really are, he said nevermind. Actually, I can't print what he said, but nevermind sums it up pretty nicely ;-)
Most of the people I've seen with them are people that already have several cars, and had the disposable income (or credit) for a cute toy.
-Andre
American V8s are sturdy enough but they are heavy and wide and not nearly as smooth or high revving as a BMW I6. I think the motor has to sort of fit the car.
Of course, if you're building some kind of outrageous street rod, then a lot of the things I brought up really don't matter.
About the F-body Camaro chassis. Of course GM could never make a BMW out of those, but could maybe do something more than a flimsy coupe with boy racer styling that could offer something besides the basic front-drive-V6-platform.
Sr. Shiftright-
About the weight issues on swaps. While I have no idea about clearance issues on BMW's (I'll bet there would be suprises aplenty, steering, master cylinder, front crossmember), the weight issue strikes me as minimal. The ultra-lightweight super trick 1972 BMW motor weight (I think) is about 350 pounds sans accessories, the old school, crude, Chevy motor w/aluminum heads (think ZZ4) is, what, about 520 pounds? Between moving the battery to the trunk, losing air conditioning, and the rear offset of a V8 vs. an inline 6 and I'll bet that the front bias would hardly be any worse than stock. Heck, I'll bet you'd even lose some weight going from the super-duper BMW trans to an M-22 or a Nash 5-speed.
As far as brakes are concerned, any radically higher performance version of car needs attention there. Is there something intrinsically different between 350 BMW horsepower and 350 Chevy horsepower pushing the car as far as stopping is concerned? If the problem is the additional weight (100lbs?) than you'd best not carry any passengers.
Last of all, you take a $12,000 car and turn it into a $5,000 car if you put a V8 in it. You could just go out and buy a Sunbeam Tiger if you want a small roadster with V8 power. You can get a decent one for $15-18K and while it's not a peach to drive, it would be cheaper and more capable than a V8 BMW 3.0 I think.
In California the obvious prime directive is to avoid post-'73 cars (though they are threatening to smog check back to '66 again, man, what a pain) and with muscle car prices so high this year (stock market based I imagine) I find my normal automotive m.o. getting closed off (more from irritation than from affordability). Guess I shouldn't have sold my LS-6 Chevelle or L89 Camaro convertible for 2500 bucks (well, that was a while back).
It strikes me that an engine swap/sleeper topic would be interesting, but there probably isn't enough of a population of currently active automotive hobbyists on Edmunds to keep it going.
For some of us who appreciate ALL kinds of cars, including those with unusual engine swaps, such a topic might go, if we could just get those guys out of their cars and garages and on the computer once in awhile. Heck, we have enough trouble just keeping the topics here going-like the trivia, for example. With the high cost of new cars now, weird and expensive engine swaps are a lot more feasible than they used to be.
My favorite Daytona thing was when they where chopping off roofs to build roadsters. Too funny.
As far as swaps go, check out these sites.
www.engineswaps.com
members.aol.com/danmas/examples.htm
www.bryanf.com
The last site is 510 oriented. The Datsun guys really build some cool all-around cars. 240Z's tend to end up with small block Chevys while the 510's are really a varied lot. Modern Nissan V6's are not uncommon (both SOHC and DOHC) along with a smattering of everything under the sun.
One neat swap was an Infiniti DOHC motor into 510 swap (yes, yes, along with bigger brakes, rack and pinion steering, etc.). So you've got modern luxury car engine behaviour (smooth idle, etc.) along with the ability to turn a 13.0 or better in the 1/4. Very cool.
The idea of bringing back an affordable rwd sedan reminds me of an idea I stole from Robert Cumberford in Automobile and posted here a few months back: using light truck chassis to develop an affordable V8 sedan. Like something based on the Ford chassis, with the Mustang 4.6 SOHC standard and the DOHC optional. Don't know about steering and brake feel. Pickups still don't seem to offer much in those areas.
But neither does my GTP, and that doesn't hurt its appeal as a poor man's sport sedan. Over in the Sedans forum they're comparing it favorably with everything except the Bugatti Royale. I thought all it did well was go fast in a straight line. Guess I'm missing something...
I can't have a a Beetle? O.k. - how about a Slant 6 Chrysler???
Old VWs are charming, but pretty awful to drive...maybe on a small back road in the country on a nice warm day with the sunroof open going 35 mph...that could work!
They're kind of neat in a few ways. Modernized systems in general include fuel injection, hydraulic lifters, disk brakes, an oil filter (!!!!) etc. Plus I'll bet they can import oddball versions never sold in the US. (One that pops to mind is a cloth sunroof model where the sunroof extends from windshield to the back of the backseat). I think if they imported a new/old Safari (aka Thing) I'd be interested.
That being said, old beetles really are maintenance hogs. If the old dealer checklists are followed, I think that there are beaucoup things to adjust and lubricate on darn small intervals. I think that that business of being able to fix one with coathangers and duct tape is kind of nonsense (especially if the work is done right).
Another way to go on the new/old beetle deal is to buy a new 356 replica built on a shortened VW pan. Vintage speedsters sells a pretty cool car that I've heard has really good fit and finish in a turnkey form.
Maybe just a resurrection of the smooth early Camaros (67/68) with modern drive trains might be in order.
I drove a '74 Superbeetle for a few years and really liked it. The Supers handle much better then the regular Beetles. I averaged 40mpg.
I believe the Daytona's were selling for $1 million in '89-90. Now they are down to $100-130K.
My old car(a JJ code four speed Indy pace car).
There's a non-pace car (blue I think) one in some collection on the web.
A stumbled on another L89 pace car on a Camaro web site.
The honest to Charlie official pace car (12467N267543).
The back up official pace car (12467N267544).
It's kind of like the rarity ascribed to 396 pace cars in general. I always seems to see claims like 50 built (out of ~3600) and so on. I've probably looked at 20 myself. I expect the real numbers (although I'm no authority) could be more like 700.
You can see why L89 cars are so rare (311 built) just from a price standpoint. I've got old paperwork in my dragon trove somewhere showing a purchase price of a little over $6000 in 1969!
Now a car I've never seen is an L89 Nova (you do stumble on the Chevelles now and then).