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Acura TL 2009

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  • Just bought an 08 TL for 28988. Although I will admit the 09 looks better in person than it does in photos, it still doesn't look nearly as good as the outgoing model, not to mention the fact that it is several thousand less. Also only 2.9% financing!!! To me it's a no brainer, anyone thinking of an 09 , go with an 08. And if you want AWD for 40k+ I'd go with the new G37 or 335.
  • I saw the same cars at the Mall yesterday. The TL does look much better to me in person than it did in the pictures. They say it is 6" longer and 2" wider and it shows. I agree, it is a much larger overall vehicle than before. Did you notice it now has Weather Radar as part of the Technology Package? Way Cool!
  • Honda and Acura cars do have a so called "break in" period, but it's not the same as you describe. I know most motors were manufactured and installed lighter weight oil to allow parts to "set in", then required changing to the "regular" oil after so many miles. My Acura Owner's Guide says this; "Help assure your vehicle's future reliablility and performance by paying extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles. During this period, avoid full throttle starts and rapid accelleration. Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles and do not change the oil until the multi-information display indicates it is needed." Somewhere between 7,000 and 8,000 miles. That is only common sense! It doesn't say you can't take it on long trips or take it up to high speeds, it just refers to the rapid starts or accelleration. hardly the same as your Porche.
  • When Acura builds a SH-AWD vehicle, it changes the entire vehicle. It does not take a Rear Wheel Drive car and simply add the Front drive system like BMW did. The 2009 TL SH-AWD and the 2009 TL are different platforms and are designed and built separately. That being said, you're right, it is still a Front Bias system with only 70% of the power able to be directed to the Rear Wheels, but once there, 100% can be directed to the right or left side as needed. My personal feelings are, I can feel the difference on the curves when accelerating on dry pavement. The SH-AWD version feels like you're on rails. You have the MDX, but there is no MDX without SH-AWD to compare, so I recommend going to your local dealership and trying the two TLs, one right after the other. You'll get what I mean. See if you don't feel the difference for yourself.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Exactly! All pretty much common sense stuff. As I said, just don't do anything stupid, and you'd be ok. Is not brain surgery.
  • Is the AWD available NOW in certain parts of the country?
    There is a poster here on Edmunds who gave the car a review as if they actually owned the car.
  • It won't be available until the end of November, but I have driven it pretty extensively and love the hell out of it.

    I just happen to work for Acura. I don't own it yet!
  • It doesn't say you can't take it on long trips or take it up to high speeds, it just refers to the rapid starts or accelleration. hardly the same as your Porche.

    A pilot, I assume? I won't digress, but so am I, and my company provides engineering consulting services for HondaJet, Mitsubishi and a few others. Perhaps we can start a forum on microjets to discuss the latest and greatest there.

    Regarding break-in, unfortunately the owner's manual recommendations fall short of what I do for all of my cars and what every knowledgeable mechanical engineer I know would recommend. In addition to "nothing stupid" catchall, the two recommendations I would add are (1) avoiding short trips during break in and (2) varying engine speed (rpms) on long trips (i.e. no cruise control).

    Bodble is right, it's not brain surgery, but those additional recommendations are pretty valuable to proper break in. Short hops that don't allow the seals, gaskets and engine parts to reach full operating temperature and fully expand and contract result in improper "seating" of parts and over the long term can lead to oil consumption, leaks and other problems. It also can cause moisture and condensation in the exhasut system to form (i.e. not fully evaporate). The varying of engine speeds helps prevent scoring of the cylinder walls, and will also result in a "better" break in for long term durability.

    It also doesn't take that brain surgeon to know that almost any car, Porsche or otherwise, that has been subjected to 30,000 miles of 3-4 mile or less roundtrips has probably suffered more engine wear than a vehicle with 100,000 miles of mostly highway driving. But it is particularly bad for a car, Acura or otherwise, to be broken in with those 5 minute hops. The difference being that Acura probably only has 5 quarts of oil to heat up, whereas a 911 has 10 and takes a little longer to reach full operating temperature.

    The problem here isn't one of "urban legend", it's of marketing practicality. Most folks buying a Porsche would have little trouble adhereing to a "don't drive less than 20 minutes or 10+ miles" during break in. But try making that recommendation with an Acura or Toyota, and the consumer response would be negative. Hence the weak language in most owner's manuals. And if that average joe starts burning oil at 50k miles rather than burning clean at 150k miles, so what? Most would never figure out that what they did in the first 1,000 miles may have made the difference.

    I'm an engineer, but as a friend who is a cardiovascular surgeon puts it, "you'd be surprised at how many people eat Big Macs and don't think it's stupid". So using "stupid" as the metric is not a safe bet.
  • Yep, a Private Pilot and the forum idea sounds great, but I'm only only a single engine land pilot, not commercial or jet aircraft licensed.
    With Hondas and Acuras lasting easily more than 200,000 miles with normal drivers, not avid Aficionados like us, they don't seem to be as temperamental or as easily injured as some other motors, regardless if it's Mom running only to the store on the weekends, or Step Son driving the wheels off of it day and night. With Stainless Steel Cylinder Sleeves, Titanium Rings and all those great Aluminum alloys together, they really tend to last even without special treatment.
    I'll be the first to admit, I treat my cars different than most and even I've had some cars who's engines failed, blowing oil after even the most perfect break-in and treatment. Then there are those motors that have been ill treated from the get go and only seem to grow stronger from it! It's alomost just the luck of the draw. Since Luck favors the prepared, I plan on maintaining my vehicles well and trust the Manufacturer to hold up his/her end of the bargain.
  • It was not you- some poster called Becky.
    If you go to the new car page and pull up the TL, there is a section for the Ediotrs review and Consumer review.The poster gave her review as if she actually purchased the car.
  • chuckjrchuckjr Posts: 61
    The 09 TL is selling at sticker here in LA (I've only been to one dealer). The internet manager stated that there wouldn't be any incentives until next year.
    Do this mean that dealers will continue to ask sticker or that Acura corporate won't provide any dealer cash? Or is this a dealer by dealer scenario?

    Basically my question is after a new car is introduced when will I be able to purchase it at invoice +?

    thanks
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    He (or she) posted on the TSX board too. Maximize exposure I guess. No big deal.
  • When the new model year is released
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "...after a new car is introduced when will I be able to purchase it at invoice +?"

    Depends on consumer response. If no one buys, it'll drop to invoice pretty darn quick.
  • It also doesn't take that brain surgeon to know that almost any car, Porsche or otherwise, that has been subjected to 30,000 miles of 3-4 mile or less roundtrips has probably suffered more engine wear than a vehicle with 100,000 miles of mostly highway driving. But it is particularly bad for a car, Acura or otherwise, to be broken in with those 5 minute hops. The difference being that Acura probably only has 5 quarts of oil to heat up, whereas a 911 has 10 and takes a little longer to reach full operating temperature.

    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here, but what should one do if 99% of my driving activity consists of "5 minute hops?" The supermarket, bank, church, school, and work are all "5 minute hops" for us. It could be weeks before one of my cars takes a 10+ mile trip before the engine is shut down. Suggestions for break in?
  • I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here, but what should one do if 99% of my driving activity consists of "5 minute hops?" The supermarket, bank, church, school, and work are all "5 minute hops" for us. It could be weeks before one of my cars takes a 10+ mile trip before the engine is shut down. Suggestions for break in?

    And your situation is one of the "marketing" reasons why you don't see the recommendation in most owner's manuals. Again, short hops are not going to produce any immediate problems, but avoiding them would be percieved as an inconvenience or red flag to potential purchasers. Nevertheless, for the reasons stated previously, it is a good break in practice.

    One thing I have done is to try to schedule a longer road trip or two after taking delivery. The other option is to do your best to combine short hops - e.g. having a passenger in the car with the engine idleing while you grab that gallon of milk. Or just take the scenic roads to school and use that "quality time" time to ask your kids how how they are doing in nonlinear differential equations or cell biology. It has never been too tough for me to turn a 5 minute hop into a 15 minute drive, at least for the first 2-3 tankfuls of gas.

    Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)? Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work.
  • Thanks for your reply.

    Again, short hops are not going to produce any immediate problems

    That's what I thought. It's not like I have ever kept the same car for 60k miles or more anyway.

    It has never been too tough for me to turn a 5 minute hop into a 15 minute drive, at least for the first 2-3 tankfuls of gas.

    True, if 2-3 tankfuls are sufficient, I'll be just fine. I will be excited enough to have a new toy and will not mind taking a few Sunday afternoon drives.

    Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)?Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)? Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work. Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work.

    Probably so. If I were buying today, it would be a tough choice to decide between an 09 Maxima and a 09 TL. I have never been particularly interested in a hybrid due to the additional purchase cost premium and the potential for extra maintenance costs. I don't see an economic advantage there for me. All of the data I have seen suggests that you have to drive a lot of miles and keep the car a long time to come out ahead. We tend to buy what appeals to us visually and what is in our price range, otherwise we, as most people, could get by in a Civic, Corolla, or Focus just fine.

    isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)?

    Beats the heck out of the 2006 Jeep Commander that it would replace. ;)
  • mikey38mikey38 Posts: 141
    Finally got over to the local dealer to check out the 09 TL. I almost cried :( They've turned a fine car into a semi-land barge with a chickenman beak! The interior is nice enough, well laid out but it's too big and way too ugly. IMHO of course.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)?'

    Have you seen the majority of drivers of high-end MB M-class, BMW X5, Cayenne, etc, and what they do? Women dropping off and picking up kids from school, dance classes, piano lessons, etc.

    If one can afford the car, who's to question whether his/her use justifies the cost? He/she can use it for a planter, if so desired.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    You would cry even more, if you went over to the Hyundai dealer and looked at the Genesis, or the Mazda6 at the Mazda dealer, and realized what could have been. :cry:
  • sandy25sandy25 Posts: 65
    "Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)? Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for ?"

    Spoken like the great engineer I/m sure you are. From the marketing perspective, almost all products are purchased primarily for subjective reasons. The accord/camry can't deliver that intangible satisfaction a "luxury" car (Acura) provides. The product choices most of us make are emotional as well as rational.

    Sigmund. Freud
    Director of Mrketing
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    If I were buying today, it would be a tough choice to decide between an 09 Maxima and a 09 TL.....Beats the heck out of the 2006 Jeep Commander that it would replace.

    Don't count on it. My 2004 TL 6-speed returns 30+ mpg on the highway, but barely manages 15-16 mpg in the kind of short hop driving you are describing.

    Not to throw out another option, but the E320 Bluetech that my marketing director owns never gets less than 25 mpg in the city. And with the incentives being offered by Mercedes, can be bought for under $45k, not that much more than a TL selling at MSRP.
  • Don't count on it. My 2004 TL 6-speed returns 30+ mpg on the highway, but barely manages 15-16 mpg in the kind of short hop driving you are describing.

    True, 15-16 is nothing to get excited about but when I scroll through the Jeep's information center, it consistently reports 11-12 mpg after a couple weeks worth of around town driving. 17-18 or so is what it reports on interstate trips at 75-80 mph. (I have no idea how accurate these onboard systems are though fwiw.)

    The MB is a nice choice but the mid 40k range is getting a little ritzy for me. Can I make the payment on time - yes, but am I comfortable with it? probably not. I don't want to get used to a high end vehicle and later have to step back a notch if my budget tightens.

    not that much more than a TL selling at MSRP.

    It will be next August before I purchase. I don't expect it to be selling at MSRP at that point. Quite a few Acura owners/enthusiasts seem to be put off by the new styling; if this translates in to less sales I expect there will be deals to be had. I wasn't crazy about the 09 Maxima at first sight but it has grown on me greatly to where it is #1 or 2 on the list. We'll see what happens....
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I wasn't crazy about the 09 Maxima at first sight but it has grown on me greatly to where it is #1 or 2 on the list.

    I respectfully suggest you test drive the new Maxima, if you haven't already done so. I did back in July when I had my 1995 Maxima in for service. Some people think a rubber band CVT is the best transmission in the world. I am of the camp that would like to send the inventor to Siberia. Granted, I am a manual transmission person, but the CVT is about as diametrically opposed to "sport" as Rosie O'Donnel is to Donald Trump. I'd take a TL, even an automatic version, in a hearbeat before the Maxima - and that's in spite of thinking that my 1995, with 155k miles ia arguably the best long term car I have ever owned.
  • The reviews on the gain in performance for the SH-AWD has been mixed. Some feel straight-line acceleration is not much improved due to extra weight. Some say the ride is too harsh and road noise too high (19" tires I presume). I have only driven the FWD TL Tech, can you comment on the difference in your opinion in terms of acceleration, ride, and noise isolation? Obviously handling will be improved in the SHAWD but I'm curious at what cost relative to the base TL.
  • I respectfully suggest you test drive the new Maxima, if you haven't already done so. I did back in July when I had my 1995 Maxima in for service. Some people think a rubber band CVT is the best transmission in the world. I am of the camp that would like to send the inventor to Siberia.

    No, I have NOT driven either the Maxima or the TL. Since I will not be ready to buy until late next summer, there's not much point in wasting a salespersons time (or mine) at this point. I have never driven or ridden in a CVT car, so I can't comment on the plusses or minuses of the CVT. I like the max from what I see visually; whether I like the CVT or not will be the primary thing I will focus on when I actually have the opportunity to drive one. (the thought has already occurred to me that I might want to see if an Altima or Max with the cvt is available to rent so that I might be able to spend an extended time test driving one)

    I know you are NOT a fan of the maxima from your posts in other places. The Max and the TL are what excites the wife at the current moment and, as this will be her car, I will submit to whatever strikes her fancy. She is looking at this as her car to "wear" and whether the max is a true "4DSC" is not even in her realm of thinking. A year is an eternity in the car world and what she is attracted to may change, once again, in the months between now and next summer depending not necessarily on common sense but whatever "flicks her Bic". Until then, I will lurk on "prices paid" forums, etc. so I will have a feel for what the market and consensus is on the models in question.

    I've made the mistake of pushing her into a car that she wasn't gung-ho on before and have learned the hard way to let my preferences stay on the back burner. She has expressed interest from time to time on the Acadia, 5 series, TL, Maxima and the Accord to name a few. Clearly, that's a wide range of choices in function as well as msrp. Right now its between the TL and the Max. I, personally, would add to that the Genesis, Passat, 3 series, G35, M35, ES 300?, Avalon, G8, CTS and some others that I am forgetting at the moment --- but again, the wife has vetoed those choices for one reason or another. (women: :cry: :confuse: :sick: :shades: )
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,606
    Back in '02, the Evil Wife wanted a new car. Not just a new car, a Lexus RX300. Among others, I had her review the Toyota Highlander. She liked the Highlander. It was several $$$ less expensive than the RX. I told her that the High and the RX were essentially the same car. She smiled, agreed and noted it would be nice to save the $$$. And ultimately, of course, the High came in second in a field of one.

    She continues to love her '02 RX and still does not want a new car (come 2011 or 2012, watch out, though...She's mumbling "Porsche" though to be honest if I bought an old Toyota MR2, slapped a Porsche badge on it she would never know the diff. In fact, she wouldn't know what a MR2 is either!). As I've oft posted, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets" as well as "A happy wife equals a happy life!"

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • As I've oft posted, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets" as well as "A happy wife equals a happy life!"

    Ain't that the truth. That about sums it up. :)

    Your Highlander-RX example is sort of what am thinking re: the Honda Accord. It is probably the best bang for the buck without a doubt and probably the "smartest" choice. After being stuck in a lease on something we have grown to dislike greatly, neither of us want to "settle" on something that is just "ok," and end up 18 months later trading again. Been there, done that too many times. I would like to get out of that cycle.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I finally got the chance to see the new TL up close and in person. If it looks better in the flesh v. in photos, the difference is inperceptable. In fact, IMO the interior looks less attractive then in the photos, although they only had the black interior at the dealer and I hate black interiors. Overall, my initial impressions were confirmed --- the car looks big & slab-sided, there is a lot of Camry/ES350 in the profile, and it has an Ellen Barkin nose (but unfortunately not her rear!). The prominent grill is acceptable if the body colour is a light colour, such as silver, but a dark body colour really accentuates the big schnoze. The standard 17" wheels/tires look puny, leaving way too much room in the wheelwell. They didn't have one with the 18" wheels so maybe that would make the car look much better. The only pleasant surprise is the MSRPs --- both the base and Tech FWD sticker for less than the '08, if I'm not mistaken. (Of course, the '08 has tons of cash incentives).

    We saw all the '09s there including the Canada-only CSX, which now also has the corporate plenum grill. The MDX looks the best with that grill, and sadly, the TL looks the worst with it.
  • Saw the new pics. Upon seeing them I said to my wife of my '05 TL, "well, looks like I got the last good TL model". Also told her that the new one reminds me of Clark Griswolds' station wagon in "Family Vacation". I do have to give credit to Honda/Acura for being bold in their design, but dear Lord...this is God-awful-ugly! I realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm certain that they'll move some units. But upon seeing this new model, I feel even more strongly that my '05 has gorgeous lines. To this day, after washing the car and shining up the tires, I stand for an extra 5-10 seconds in the garage staring at my car. Slightly pathetic and childish I realize (I'm really not even materialistic), but it's one of my few indulgences. I'm trying to take good care of the car so I can hang on to it for a long time. After viewing the '09 pictures it looks like I'll be keeping my '05 for at least another 4-5 years, until they make another model change.
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