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Acura TL 2009

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  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited March 2010
    I owned a 2000 acura integra GS_R a 4 cyl 170 hp coupe that changed the way people look at compact cars - and was the reason there is now a mazdaspeed, an evo, a WRX in the US market. Acura was bold with its style and performance and didnt care what LExus was doing. Now they have 3 SUV's - 3 sedans- no coupe, converts, or sports cars.-- the division needs some life quickly before it can be considered anything other then a comp for buick and lincoln.

    anyone know how many Tl's were sold in 2009 vs G 2009??

    http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/plushter77/EG_Grill1.jpg
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Posts: 378
    I can tell you for sure- you will never get me to swap out my grill for that awful looking piece of mesh.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    smarty....I don't know that it really matters what others consider Acura. Plain and simple, it's Honda's luxury division, just like Lexus is to Toyota, or Infiniti is to Nissan.

    I've yet to meet anyone who hasn't believed that their Acura/Honda product wouldn't serve them well for 150K miles and above. I like the way they drive. I even like the way they sound when you really wind them up.

    Up until recently, I always felt that as good as they drive, they were fairly "ho hum" in their styling. That changed in the most recent iterations. They went bold. And I like that.

    Honda saves their best for Acura. Everything they've learned in racing, in development, all goes into the Acura lineup. IMHO, the best at what they do is in the TL.

    Their build quality rivals (and sometimes exceeds) any car brand I've ever experienced (that includes Audi, Benz and BMW). As far as coupes are concerned, there are really only a few that I'd consider....a Mustang, a Camaro, a Corvette, or a Porsche.

    If I truly worried about what others thought, I'd probably be in a Masserati, which is to me one of the most beautiful sedans on the road. But, I don't wory. I like what I like.

    I really like my TL (had a 3rd gen I liked, too).
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    billy, I'm with you on that grill picture. Not feeling that, at all.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited March 2010
    with that grill it looks exactly like the buick la cross -- something acura should now be targeting.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    edited March 2010
    LOL, why would Acura "target" a Buick? :confuse: If anything from GM, it would be the Cadillac CTX, but I bet it is BMW 3/5-series, Audi A4/A6, and the likes that Acura has in mind.

    By the way, that after-market grille may belong to the '80s, but it can really cheapen modern cars.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited March 2010
    have you read my past posts- acura is now the new buick..
    ..CTS line of cars offer more excitement then the entire acura line-- wagon, coupe and super car (with a vette engine) -- your joking if you think audi and bmw are even looking at acura as a real competitor. Its a nice honda- with some cool technology but they are not drivers cars- its not a leader in any segment-- and its a shame because they had everything lexus had 10 years ago but are now an after thought.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    Audi and BMW may or may not view Acura as a real competitor, but that does not keep Acura from targeting them as such. Incidentally, what you said is exactly my point: car makers aim high, not low. Therefore, it is less likely Acura would have Buick in mind as its target when designing the TL.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    jtla.....Where the TL competes (especially, the SH AWD version) is hotly contested....Cadillac, BMW, Audi, Infiniti etc. The base TL, as mentioned before, is probably targeted at the Lexus ES (which in turn, Buick has targeted with the LaCrosse).

    I saw the LaCrosse at the local car show about a month ago. Never driven one. But, I can say they did a nice job on it, just by sitting in it. And, you can see why they are doing their marketing towards stealing some Lexus ES buyers. Not my cup of tea, but apparently there's a broad market for the ES/LaCrosse.

    I can't really see someone who's shopping for a Lexus ES or Lacrosse shopping the TL, though. I think Acura people are looking for something more distinctive, and better handling.

    The TL base FWD and the SH AWD version are really two different cars (and two different markets). The SH AWD has a different personality. It's a great handling machine, yet offers a firmer ride that you'd get in an Infiniti G37xs, BMW 3, or Audi.

    Again, there are no bad choices. It was a tough one for me between the G and the TL. If the S version of the G had better seats (I'm 5'10", ~175 lbs), and I found them more comfortable, my decision would have been much tougher. The TL SH AWD and the G37xs are very close performance-wise. The Acura just fit me better.

    Plus, I really liked the TL's styling, too.

    No bad choices between the two.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I agree with you to a point, I don't understand the point of Buick! they are trying to make it a full fledge luxury division but GM already has one, its called CADILLAC! I don't know why GM even kept Buick; if anything they should have gotten rid of Buick and kept Pontic and made that a exclusive sports division of GM, similar to Scion for Toyota - I think that would have made more sense!

    The reason why Acura is going to have to start worrying about Buick is, Buick is specifically trying to upscale their vehilces to compete with the TSX, IS for Lexus, and G for Infiniti! If you've read this months issue of Motortrend the new Regals for 2011 are suppose to be a Acura and Infiniti killer, according to Buick! I got a good laugh when I heard that!

    Infiniti must be concerned because I just read something the other say that they are thinking of bringing back a smaller entry level G20 below the G37 in order to compete with Buick better now that they have the new regal!

    Personally, I don't think Acura has much to worry about; the TSX is a great car and I would take it hands down over a Regal any day of the week!! If anything, Infiniti has more to worry about since they don't have any model that directly competes with the TSX, IS, or Regal! they most likely will have to introduce a turbo 4cyl into a G20 model!
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    smarty.....at first, when GM was axing brands, I thought Buick should go and Pontiac should stay. But, that didn't happen. Now Buick is nipping on Cadillac's and Lexus' heals.

    I can't make the connection between Buick and Acura, though. Buick is clearly aiming for Lexus....and probably the Regal will be cross shopped against the IS, just like the Lacrosse will be cross shopped with the Lexus ES.

    Anyone who's looking for that kind of isolated ride/steering/handling isn't going to be very pleased with an Infiniti G or an Acura TL or TSX.

    Infiniti is moving down market with the G25. Acura moved up market with the TSX (replacing the former 3rd generation TL) and the TL (moving up market against the German brands). I see the TL as kind of a "tweener", situated between an Infiniti G and M.....BMW 3 and 5, etc.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    Okay, guys, I probably should take another look at Buick. Yes, if we bring Lexus ES into the picture, then Buick La Crosse is one contender for the pie that Acura TL goes after. However, my earlier posts were more of from a Performance Sport Sedan point of view, and, frankly, Lexus and Buick rarely strike me as performance or sport.

    Speaking of Buick, I am afraid that it is going to have the same identity crisis as Mercury in the Ford family. At this point, GM seems to position Buick better than Ford with its Mercury. We will see how it plays out. I did read the article on MotorTrend, but really need to see and drive the cars to make me a believer.

    As to Infiniti, I am not sure whether a G25 will be the right answer for TSX or Regal. Sure, it will grab some of those shoppers, but it can also cut into its own G37 sales. Take Lexus IS for example; I see at least twice as many IS250 as IS350 on the road. Infiniti needs to play it cautiously.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    jtla.....honestly, if Buick wants to play in in the Lexus sandbox, more power to them. I agree with you, though. I can't see a Lexus buyer cross shopping either Infiniti or Acura. They offer handling that's well to the north of sporty for the buyers who would consider either Lexus or Buck more to their liking. Neither Buick nor Lexus is close to "sport", as the Infinitis and Acuras are. Probably never will be.

    I also concur, there's going to be some cross platform erosion between Cadillac and Buck, just like there is between Mercury and Ford, as you point out. Although, neither Buick, nor Mercury have the width and breadth of product offerings that their upscale stablemates do.

    I hope that the G25 works out for Infiniti. I like Infinitis overall. I think the size of the G lends itself better to the TSX to begin with. Again, still don't see Regal being cross shopped with either the G25, nor the TSX. Just like I can't make the connection from the G37 or TL to a LaCrosse.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited March 2010
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    g25 is infinitis answer to lower end cars -- it will undercut the 328i in price and be a direct competitor against the TSX, A4 2.0, regal, lex IS Infiniti does not want to rebadge another FWD nissan car into its lineup.. here is a link-- and it will be very competitive or will crush its rivals. (depending on the engine they bring over)

    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/12/rumormill-2011-infiniti-g25-coming-with-turbo- charged-2-5-liter/

    I bet with a 6 speed it will be a pretty good rig- and its RWD something its comp (besides the IS) doest offer.

    Reason why buick is still around (and will take share from acura in the states) is CHINA-- th ese cars are loved by the locals --its a huge status symbol. Look it up.

    Acura is not close to "sport" either-- I mean they have one car with AWD and a 6 speed -which they have prob sold 100 of them-- the rest of the lineup is awd or auto fwd only-- the TLS or whatever its now called is a nice try but its a heavy large sedan that would get schooled by a bmw 535 or 335 -- for the money is not comparable to the performance of the G35x-- look at the reviews from all the car magazines or edmunds-- these guys drive cars for a living-- the TL nice safe car for a guy in his mid 40's - like a buick - or the ES.. sorry to all the owners who think they bought a 'sports' sedan because its a sheep (or an accord) in wildebeest clothing. :lemon:
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2010
    don't get me wrong, I love Acura, on my second TL, but they are by no means anywhere close to Infiniti, BMW, or Audi in sport performance or handling department; the closest you can even get would be the TL AWD manual right now and even that came in forth place against the competition but that was without the manual though I don't think that alone would make much difference!

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/2009_infiniti_g37_vs._bmw_3- - 28i_audi_a4_and_acura_tl-comparison_tests/2009_acura_tl_sh-awd_page_2

    make sure you check out the results chart in the article for the specific numbers! personally, I think the TL, as it is right now is a great luxury car, with a cabin and ride designed a little more for the passengers then for the driver! I think it bridges the gap nicely between Lexus and Infiniti! its better in overall refinement!
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    Hmmm, a sub- $30k V6 RWD 4-door sport sedan? Maybe the Nissan Maxima should be worry.

    What? With a 300 lb-ft torque turbo-charged engine like the BMW 335i? Maybe Infiniti G37 should be worry.

    Like I said, Infiniti/Nissan has got to play this G25 idea very cautiously.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    edited March 2010
    jtla.....I think the G25 will be good for Infiniti. As others have said, it will give the TSX, A4, 328 some competition.....at a lower price point. Someone who really doesn't care about performance (like the IS250 customer) can get all the goodies of the G37, without the added cost.

    For whatever reason, the Maxima has never compelled me to give it much of a look. I know it's current iteration has left me kind of "cold" regarding its styling. Kind of "blah" when I've seen one on the road. But, perhaps it is good a budget G or M.

    People I know who drive the TSX....all say they love it. So, Acura hit at least someone's hot buttons with that car.

    From the ones I've spoken to, and those who drive the TL (SH AWD), love it, too. Myself included. The base TL, I'm sure appeals to those who don't care about sports sedan performance, per se. They just want something that drives nice, has all the tech goodies, and doesn't mind a little sport thrown in.

    It always seems to come down to the TL SH AWD, the A4 Quatro, or the G37x. Those seem to be the on the list for anyone looking in that general range.

    I know I also test drove the C300 4 matic, and the 335I xdrive. You start equipping them "like for like" with the TL (or the G) and you're going north of $50K pretty quickly, though. I don't see how the Benz competes with them, as it falls down in just about every category you'd like to compare against the G or the TL.

    The 335i, I see the appeal. But again, at what price? When you move into the 5 series (which is about the same size as the TL), the disparity only gets bigger.

    Anyway, nice discussion. Perhaps a few years down the road, I'll have to test drive the Lacrosse, or the Regal based on how highly some of you rate those two.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    edited March 2010
    Actually, TL SH AWD manual beats 335i and G37S in the lap time in this comparison and it has shortest stop distance with smallest rotor :surprise:.
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/index.php/tests/comparison/four-door-firepower

    It was only 1.1 secs behind S4 on the track. To me, Acura has done a wonderful job on TL.
  • ChasboyChasboy Posts: 186
    I agree completely. I also analyzed the dimensions a while back and found the TL to be called an 'almost' 5 series. One major reason I got it was I did not want to spend the $$$ for the 5 series room.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    that is something I have always disliked about BMW, why pay all that extra money for the 3 and 5-series when you get so little front and rear room in almost every dimension? if I wanted little to no room I'd buy a sport coupe. Give me a Acura or Audi over BMW any day of the week :D
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    edited March 2010
    jtla -- maxima is fwd-

    g37 has 330 hp and 280 torque- plus its atleast 10 grand cheaper-try getting a new 35k 335i -- and if you want to fully option them out it the spead will widen.

    bmw has a 328 for a reason- lexus has the IS250 for a reason- audi has the 2,0 A4..-even the TL has a baby accord engine, like i said its a good idea-- lots of people are down on the G for being a gas guzzler-- this would be the option for people to get into an infiniti and possibly move up in models as they age.

    and for the person who posted the 4 door firepower article from R&T the TL was once again 4th out of 4. does it ever finish in the middle of the pack?? maybe they should start testing the TL vs its real comp-- buick. Merk, and lexus ES -- you can also put a Saab in the group and i'm sure the TL will move up a notch or 2. :D
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    graphicguy, maybe my posts came across as I was against the idea of G25. Well, I like it. In fact, I agree with everything you said. However, the only point I was trying to make is that Infiniti/Nissan has to do a thorough market research and position/packaging the upcoming G25 in the right niche so as to attract TSX, 328i, A4, or even Ragal :surprise: buyers without undermining sales of its own -- or as little as possible. (Thus, don't hold your breath for the turbo engine.)

    As to "I don't see how the Benz competes with them, as it falls down in just about every category you'd like to compare against the G or the TL." The answer is simple: the tri-spoke star on the hood. ;)
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    edited March 2010
    maxima is fwd-

    g37 has 330 hp and 280 torque- plus its at least 10 grand cheaper-try getting a new 35k 335i -- and if you want to fully option them out it the spread will widen.


    sweendogy, you are missing my points. It is a joke that Nissan markets the Maxima “4-door sport sedan” yet equips it with FWD and CVT. A RWD G25, hopefully with available 6MT, will rightfully challenge that title and surely appeal to Maxima buyers.

    BMW’s twin-turbo 335i produces 300 hp and 300 lb-ft torque. I would rather match it in torque (the turbo-charged G25, if available) than beat it in hp (the G37) any day.

    I am with you on how a baby G would benefit Infiniti. I would also be interested to see a comparison test on TL, ES, La Crosse. (The April issue of MotorTrend compared ES and La Crosse.)
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2010
    Agree with you completely about the Maxima! I have a 2010 SV so I should know. Nissan did screw up, not with the car itself, but as you said, the marketing of it as a 4-dr sports sedan, which it is not The CVT and the FWD combo makes the car not as sporty in feel and drive, despite what the sporty/aggressive body style might indicate. You don't know how many times at lights people look at my car, think it is a sports car and try to race me. Luckily 290HP is more than enough to keep up but it isn't a sports sedan. It drives and rides more like a Altima or Accord then it does a 3-series or G37! Hopefully at some point, Nissan will stop that marketing campaign. I don't hold out much hope though.

    They really need to start marketing it as a aggressive upscale sedan rather than 4-dr sport; they would have to dump a manual and RWD into it to make it a sports sedan, but then how would it be any different from a G37 or G25 (when it comes out)? it wouldn't so they'll have to leave it the way they got it and just get their marketing department in line!
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    Max is no sportscar i agree- they brought back the old 4DSC as a marketing tool. That being said- in standard form the TL and MAX are pretty close. Would a G25 bite into Max sales prob right but I think the altima is the big reason the MAx is no longer the stud it once was.

    and I also agree on your torque comment But your not getting my point when it comes down to the mighty dollar i would rather save 10 grand (or more) and get the G for 3/4ths the price and 9/10 the performance. I would bet the twin turbo G25 will not make it stateside- seems like infiniti would go smaller engine to get better mandated MPG improvements.

    and let me end with a snapshot

    http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/2010_Buick_Allure_Jalopni- k-topshot2.jpg
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    If the La Crosse drives as sharp as it looks, it will be very competitive with TL FWD, Lexus ES, MB C300, and (gulp) Ford Taurus.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    edited March 2010
    jtla...we're violently agreeing. ;)

    I'm assuming that the G25 will be the same as the G37, just with a smaller motor. I think it will steal some sales from the G37. Matter of fact, it will probably steal even more sales from the 3.5 Altima. You'd get a better warranty than the Nissan. Plus, I'm going to assume they're both going to be similarly priced. I also agree that Infiniti won't be including the turbo motor for the exact reason you stated. It will end up being a cheaper version of the G37 with almost the same performance.

    Regarding the trade rags, if I followed their advice, I'd be driving a Malibu. We all buy the cars that best suit our needs....not the ones who do well on a test track. Interesting note, if I was in the market for a $50K car (not a $40K car, like the TL SH AWD is, which I purchased well under $40K), I'd be looking very closely at an S4, or a 335i xDrive, too. You start really loading up a G37x-s, you're getting into that above $45K range, too. So, not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

    What I'd rather have seen is a comparison between a 535i xDrive loaded up, or an Audi A6 quatro loaded up, and see where we end up compared to a TL SH AWD, particularly when you throw in price discrepancies.

    Again, the G and the TL are both nice cars that compete well in their given segments. It's clear to me that the G 3x is aiming squarely for the BMW 3. When Acura dropped the 3.5L into the TSX, that's their entry against the BMW 328i and the Audi A4.

    The TL is pretty much attempting to carve out its own segment.....right between the Infiniti G and M......or between the BMW 3 and 5.

    Acura has always gone their own way. People complained when their styling was too conservative (me being one of them). Now that they've become aggressive in their styling, some people are complaining about that. I happen to like it. But, if one thing's for certain, you can't please all the people all the time.

    Like those who lean towards the G, just like those of us who lean towards Acura, what we know we're getting are great performing machines, that are built well, which will last a very long time with minimal fuss. The rest is just a matter of personal wants and tastes.

    As you point out, the only thing I can see as being a selling point for the Benz C class is the hood ornament. I guess that has some worth for some people.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2010
    Acura has always gone their own way. People complained when their styling was too conservative (me being one of them). Now that they've become aggressive in their styling, some people are complaining about that. I happen to like it. But, if one thing's for certain, you can't please all the people all the time

    This is very true! At first, in both pictures and when seeing the new TL and other Acura models in person, I could not stand the new corporate snow plow grill they put on the Acura models. Over time though, I have warmed up to it a little bit and if you get the right exterior color it does not look too bad. But, I still think the grill on the TL, ZDX, and RL is too big/overwhelming and massive and takes a little bit away from the front end. I actually like the size and look of the grill on the TSX and MDX and could live with it in that shape and size. On the TSX and MDX the corporate shield grill looks more proportional to the vehicles size and doesn't overwhelm you when looking at it like it does on the TL and ZDX! I'm not saying Acura has to get rid of the grill completely on the TL but I think they should just tone it down in size a little bit so that it is not so overwhelming and the complete focus when looking at the front end! I also would like them to smooth out the rear end a tiny bit so it doesn't look so bloated and big like the previous generation Maxima did.

    I absolutely love the interior of the new TL though and the side profile of the car is very sleek and sexy looking! Just my two cents, still a great luxury car for the money though!
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    How could the 4th finished car be the second quickest car behind S4 and it out stops S4, 335i and G37s with smallest rotors of the bunch :confuse:

    And, if you look at performance aspect of the car, it is on par with BMW and better than Infiniti except only in the 0-60 and to 1/4 mile time.

    So, with those numbers, you tell me if TL is still a 4th place car or 2nd place car.

    Then, if you throw in the price, reliability and maintenance cost advantage, it is 1st place car in my book
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