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Acura TL 2009

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  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    I agree on the transmission and I still want the option to shift my own gears.

    straightline performance should be mixed in when talking about overall performance for 40k-- - the turbo 2.0t in the audi/passat/jetta is a good engine -good MPGS- Its torque figure is quite good for the 2010 model at 250lb-ft but lets remember this car is no lightweight. I think you did the smart thing and bought a used audi because from the factory a new audi way overmatched/overpriced in this class (S4 another story but extra 20 grand)- hope you other car the TL is pre 2009 model (ugly duckling).

    btw, dont knock mustang - america striking back -- 300 hp v6 coming with 30 mpgs- o yeah and 275 lbs-ft (something you love) -- bet its pretty good thru the cones as well-- all that for under 25k. :shades:
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,205
    Taking your last point first, my comment regarding the Mustang wasn't intended to be derogatory in any way, although I understand that it could be interpreted as a veiled criticism. To be clear, just because I don't happen to own an American car now doesn't mean I don't like some of them, including the Mustang. I've owned domestic and import brands.

    My wife and I considered a new A4, but concluded that the value proposition was better if we could buy a well maintained used one from a private owner. As it happened, I found one on Craigslist in just the color (dark blue) and interior (beige) that my wife preferred.

    My main concern about the Audi brand is reliability. Time will tell on that, but, based on the fact that we liked the car, we decided to take the risk. It's our first Audi, and if it disappoints us on "cost-to-own," it'll be our last one. Consumer Reports recommended the A4 for '07, so that was somewhat comforting. Owners reporting on Edmunds either loved them or hated them -- mostly the former, but the opinions seemed to be more polarized than usual. We'll see if we got a good one or a bad one.

    Our TL is a '99, which we bought new, and still like very much. The reason we didn't consider an '09 or '10 TL is that we agree with you; Acura missed the boat on the styling. In addition, it's dimensions and weight are more than we need or want.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    TL99 nice rig- if i remember correctly it was one of the first to offer sport shifting from an auto-- I had a 2000 integra gs-r and would of loved a TL but was out of my range at the time. great service- good cars-- i'm sure they are still good cars-- long lasting - biggest problem with the brand is passion--there is none- no car in the stable stands out for value or performance- not one-- in terms of styling they missed the boat and uglyfied them all to stand out. laughable comes to mind- only reason to get one of these cars is if they are going for discount vs the competition (BMW,INFI, AUDI) -- if your looking for a good looking front drive car - why not take the new buicks out for a spin-- they offer similar performance, consumer reports love them, and they are better looking..TL is done in this group-next to go will be TSX after the supercharged regal comes out.. Go USA
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,205
    Yeah, Buick seems to be clawing its way back, regaining the mojo from the Century of the '30s and the best of its early post-WWII through '70s models.

    The LaCrosse looks competitive, but not yet in "gotta have it" league for me. As for the '11 Regal, it looks promising too, but I don't know about class-leading. While I saw a Regal on display at the Washington, DC auto show, the public wasn't permitted to see it up close. My early impression, based on what I've read, is that, like the LaCrosse, the Regal is competitive, but isn't a clear winner.

    Some examples of class-leading, from an overall perspective (including performance, driving dynamics, reliability, styling and price), are the Camrys and Accords of the '80s through mid '90s, the '88 through approximately '96 Maxima, the second and third generation TL ('99 - '08), and first, second, and third generation Preludes and Integras, and the E-Class Mercedes of the mid-late'80s. I'd like to include some BMWs, VWs and Audis, but they fall down on reliability. For example, the first generation A4 would have made the cut, in my opinion, but due to reliability and cost-of-repair issues, it caused too many owners too much grief. Too bad, because it was a gorgeous car, with a lot of attributes.

    The were and are many other excellent cars that aren't quite class leaders, by my definition, and my examples didn't include all the class leaders.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    regal GS 250 plus HP 295 lbs of torque (your fav) and AWD.

    maybe this will kick honda in the azs.

    http://www.buick.com/assets/en/pdf/futurelanding/regal/Buick_Regal_GS.pdf
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Posts: 106
    A nice video on the new Acura design team... Coming up on 90 days for my TL-SH-AWD and it is as exciting to look at and to drive as it was 90 days ago! The car is so much fun I had to get a Escort 9500ix radar detector! ;)

    http://www.motoringtv.com/watch-motoringtv-p127719&epId=136278&yr=2010
  • No matter what they say in my opinion still very ugly. I have a 2006 TL and i am not planning to get any new Acura till they come up with a design that is not disturbing to my eyes.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Posts: 106
    This is my first Acura. Well for me it is the TL, we got my wife a TSX last year and that led me to a TL 12 months later. I retired the Honda Pilot to my weekend home depot wheels. I would NOT have purchased the 2009 TSX if they had not updated the design. The older TSX did nothing for me. The same goes for the 2010 TL, if it looked like the older models I would have most likely gone with the BMW, so hats off to Acura as I am one of those 50% that came in and purchased not one but two Acura's.. In the video Acura stated they need to look forward, not back. Back would have been to make the Acura line a slightly upgraded Honda Line. Honda and Acura look nothing alike today, but the new Honda Accord have the same style as the older TL.. Been that way for a long time. All I have received is praise on the looks of my new car.. :blush:
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    rlonn....nice vid. I agree with most of the points made. Acura isn't going to be another "me too" look anymore.

    I've yet to hear one negative from anyone when I park my car. It's been just the opposite, I've had people actually spend time waking around my car and giving me a "thumbs up".
  • marcus216marcus216 Posts: 78
    I just leased a new 2010 TL SH-AWD. The decision was easy for me. Value. And thanks to the folks in this forum. Reading the posts helped with my decision I, too, was a bit taken aback by the styling. This is one angry looking sedan. But it grows on you and I agree with graphicguy, everyone who sees my car, just raves about the styling. I looked at Audi A6, New Infiniti M, BMW 5 and Ford Taurus SHO. Some Lease quotes were $250+ per month more on the other cars. I really did like the Ford Taurus SHO, but for a car that has a list price within a few hundred dollars of the TL, my best quoted lease price was $180 per month more with a poorer warranty. The TL is by far the best value in a luxury mid-large sedan. Comparable A6 or Infiniti M were $10,000+ more, and I drove them both, the TL matched them or surpassed them in most categories. I am certainly not knocking the other cars, they are all stellar. But, in my humble opinion, The TL shines above them when price enters into the discussion.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Posts: 106
    Congratulations on the new car... The funny thing about Style is when you mentioned the Taurus SHO.. When I first saw it I thought it was a nice looking car other then a big rear end. But over time, the more I looked at it, the more I don't like it. The car is a big bulky sedan, lots of bulk, trying to be a sports car with a big engine.. For me, unlike a Audi, BMW, Infinity or our Acura, each time I look at them I continue to enjoy the unique styling, but the Taurus has become a big tun off for me over the last 3 or 4 months... The car style will fade with time quickly.. So far the new Buick look is excellent, and a lot of the design idea comes from , what looks to me, a copy of a lot of the Acura... Even at 62, I just don't see myself getting behind the wheel of a Buick, when I drive them they still feel like a Hertz rental cars... ;)
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Posts: 106
    I should have mentioned which Buick. Well it is the 2011 Regal CXL Turbo. Fully loaded with EVERYTHING is just $32K. Check out this link and then spin the car around for a view of the rear. Note the semi pointed rear like the Acura. Also notice the placement of the License Plate, down on the lower bumper. Then check out the way the front headlights curve into the front fenders.. I mean come on GM, trying to make a big hit off of Acura!!! However once you leave the style of the exterior behind, it is mostly downhill from that point.. I will say however Onstar is a good thing to have. Here is the link..

    http://www.buick.com/regal/2011/
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Posts: 106
    Click on the Video Demo after you click on the link. Interesting how what he talks about is what the Acura design team talked about in the MotoringTV episode. I think Buick and Acura have it right. Someday they may add in the Horse Power, AWD and the overall feel of the driving experience, another $10K to the price and may have a interesting car to sell.. Even the audio and Center controls look a lot like Acura!

    http://www.buick.com/regal/2011/pictures/
  • marcus216marcus216 Posts: 78
    I agree that the Taurus is a big car, but I drove it and it drives much smaller. Nice ride and lots of power with the twin turbo engine. Back seat room not as much as you would think for a big sedan. I just could not believe the lease price difference between the SHO and the TL. Made my decision very easy. And, yesterday when I came out of my office at the end of the day, three people were admiring my TL and asked me how I liked it. Some people love the styling, others don't, but it is a head turner.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I really like the exterior body style of the new Regal and sat in two different trim levels at the NY Auto Show last month, but the interior just did not feel exactly up to the standards of Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, or Audi. Do not get me wrong, it is a huge huge improvement in interior quality and fit/finish for Buick compared to where they were in the last several years but it still is not class leading. I found several, hard cheap feeling/looking plastics in the interior and a couple of fit/finish issues bothered me as well. It a great step forward in the right direction for Buick and I think with the next Gen, they might be up to the standards of everyone else but until now, the jury is still out, and it will be years from now, until we find out if Buick's long-term reliability has improved to the point it can match that given by Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti!

    I have a sensitive back and I found the seats both front and rear extremely too firm and uncomfortable for my taste at least. I have lumbar problems and their seats cushions push right in on the low back way to hard. I even made sure the lumbar support was fully depressed but it made no difference.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    marcus...congrats on the new TL.

    I'm pretty amazed at what my SH AWD TL can do....even in every day driving. It more or less begs me to hit an apex at any speed I dare, and never gets unsettled. It's comfortable and quiet in doing so, too (except for the exhaust snarl when you wind it up). The seats are some of the most comfortable, and supportive I've ever experienced in any car. And I love the steering feel (as well as the steering wheel).

    When they had the Regal (and the LaCrosse) at our local car show this past winter I got the chance to look at, and sit in them. Good effort by GM. And, they both made me think that GM was finally "getting it".

    However, you look a little closer and you see some of the "old GM think" in the finishing details. For example, something as simple as window switches had a "rough feel" on the edges. Plus, there was "play" in the buttons on the dash. So, you could tell the tolerances for the LaCrosse (which is the one I spent the most time in) were much more than what you'd find in the TL. Truth told, I found the same sort of lack of "finishing" in the CTS, too. Goes to show, regardless of the GM car you're looking at, tolerances and finishing are still works in progress for them.

    Regal sounds interesting, but people are gushing over it before it even hits the streets here. We really don't know what it will be like until it gets on U.S. roads.

    I hope it's a hit for GM. We've got out tax dollars depending on it.

    I think it's clear that the LaCrosse is aimed squarely at the Lexus ES. Those seeking that type of ride, that type of handling probably won't shop a TL, BMW 3-5, Audi A4-6.

    IMHO....TL's are just very well made, good handling, very reliable, long lasting sports sedans. Yes, it has "edgy" styling. But, I prefer that over Acura's (and Honda's ) usual conservative looks.
  • marcus216marcus216 Posts: 78
    Thanks, graphicguy. I am totally pleased with my new TL and I have taken a few corners at more than optimum speed and the AWD system does try to defy physics. It just shoots through a curve!..I did look at the Buick Regal as one of my options. I, too, think it is a vast improvement for GM. It drove very nicely, was quiet and has a great back seat. My two complaints were that the hard angle slope of the front windshield created a blind spot from the A pillar too far forward, made vision at intersections difficult. And, AWD was a must for me living in Northeast Ohio. The 3.0 liter engine with AWD was very sluggish.
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Posts: 378
    edited May 2010
    Has anyone thought about switching their fog lights to HID?
    Let me know if you did, also the price and what the process entails.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Posts: 106
    Interesting question. I recently received the Acura service and Electrical manuals for the 2010 TL, lots of Good Data on the hidden menus of the GPS nav screen. I will need to check on what feeds these lights from an electrical perspective, what size wire, what size fuses, and how they are electronically turned on and off. I have avoided this stuff as who wants to give Acura an excuse to say the issue was related to a modification of the electrical system... ;)
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,161
    i would disagree with your LaCrosse diss -- its FWD - big, frumpy-- just like the TL-- they have similar power and are as reliable as your Acura TL- check consumer reports- one could argue its a better car dollar for dollar (cept for resale) and lord knows its better looking on the exterior. To put the TL in the class of the BMW or Audi A6 is just crazy- - a TL-s (or whatever its called) might have some sporty nature features but 90% of what is sold are FWD-- and 95% of them are sold as automatics. The CTS is a car that saved cadillac. . The Regal is another step forward-- Acura on the other hand decided to put big grills on honda accords, chop the roof off an SUV, and expand the TSX line into a wagon-- sorry not buying it--(but they do offer pretty sweet lease rates)
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    edited May 2010
    sween....sounds like you're a GM fan. Nothing wrong with that. Aside from a Cadillac I owned several years ago (an STS), which was a nightmare, the GM vehicles I've had were generally all good cars/trucks.

    Not dissing the LaCrosse. It's a big step in the right direction for GM. Not my cup 'o tea. But, if someone is shopping in that category (like a Lexus ES), it's worth looking into. Can't comment about the Regal, as I've only eyeballed one at a car show. Sounds interesting.....but not interesting enough for me to seriously look at one.

    I really like my TL (2nd one I've owned). After shopping Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, even a Ford SHO, all of which were generally in the same price range as the TL, I chose the TL SH AWD as the car I spent my own money on. Actually, the Audi A4 was a little less. The A6 was more.

    If the LaCrosse, or Regal are your desire, I'd at least look at the Lexus IS/ES, which are the main competitors.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    Just my observations on the cars I test drove....

    -MB C class 4 matic......truthfully, the only thing that car had going for it was the Mercedes logo. It just didn't compete on any other level with any of the others I test drove.

    -Audi....the A4/5/6 are very nice cars. The 4 cyl turbos are good motors, but really can't compete with the other 6 cyl variants in the other cars. Plus, I still don't trust their reliability. The 6 cyl A5 and A6 were nice, too. But once you option them up to the level of the TL SH AWD w/ tech (what I have), they go well over the cost of a TL. BTW...the only manual tranny you could find outside of the TL SH AWD was on the A5. Other makes/models may advertise they make them, but you can't find them on the lot.

    -BMW 335i....very nice car. Cramped. BMW is having some fuel pump issues with that model right now. Plus, equipped like for like, were about $10K more than the TL SH AWD once all the negotiations are done. This is a car that's subsidized by BMW with attractive leases. It's the car to lease (so you can get out of it before the warranty expires). I purchase my cars, not lease them. So, that wasn't very attractive to me. I've owned a BMW in the past. Maintenance and repair after the warranty is up will be a shock to most with the amount of money it costs.

    -Infiniti G37x.....my 2nd choice. Compared to my TL, the engine sounded coarse. There's something up with their 7-speed trans, too. It seemed it could never find the right gear to be in. Still, a very nice car.

    As has been pointed out, the TL has great resale, and is bulletproof. It's fast. SH AWD is the real deal when it comes to handling. The seats are supremely comfortable. Steering is great. And, you'd be hard pressed to find a car that's better built.
  • gbosilgbosil Posts: 88
    Sweendogy.... Spoken from currently owning two Acuras 2007 TLS and 2010 TSX v6 w/Tech. The Acura is no Honda Accord or Honda... period. Owned Hondas in the past... sorry no dice there! Acuras are now produced on a separate platform and have separated themself from Honda. http://owners.acura.com/ Resale value is better than the rest. Reliability is Bulletproof! 5 star crash ratings on all and the BEST Nav system on the maket ... PERIOD! Lexus sux because you can't work it while the car is in motion and is still qwerky. American cars are getting better but I wouldn't take one for free to be honest. Resale on American cars are a joke! And to be honest the TL -SH AWD will smoke any Buick Lacrosse... are seriously kidding me here? :P
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Posts: 378
    Well said.
    When I shopped around I was looking at the GS350 (really wanted this one), Mercedes E350 4MATIC, BWM 535XI and the G35X. I think I gave my opinion on these sometime ago.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Posts: 106
    I think, and know you are right on! I could have written this myself! One thing, My statement leading folks over to the Buick link was to show folks that Acura was not alone when it came to How It Made The Car Look! Those that love the style of the TL, should love the buick as the concept is very close to the same mold.. And I still prefer the Acura grill to any Buick grill.

    Other then the styling, the rest of the car well, I have no interest in. GM is leading on the bells and whistles electronics shown by their recent TV advertisement where they show you PAUSING the audio on the AM-FM radio.. Nice idea!! But in the end, you just want to get in the car, drive it, and not worry what will break next.

    A good friend of mine got a 5 series BMW 3 months ago. Traded in his 2005 MDX... He has had 3 major things go wrong with the electronics, and has decided to turn the car back in under the California Lemon Law. He will go and get, that is right, a 2011 TL. He has an extra car, so he is going to wait for the 2011 TL...

    I talked to the San Diego Acura dealer this week, they have no information on the 2011 TL. They said they would call me when they arrive in a few months so I can come check it out.. :)
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    How the hell could you possibly even know that they are as reliable as the TL, ES, etc etc? You couldn't possibly. The new LaCrosse has only been out a year now. There is no way to know at this point what its long-term reliability is. Your jumping the gun! Its going to be another 4-5 years from now, till we can see if GM really has gotten their act together and the long-term reliability of the new LaCrosse will even hold a candle to the reliability history of the ES, TL, etc!

    Because as we all know, and I know I'm not the only one who experienced it, GM's biggest problem has always been long-term reliability after the 3-4 year mark when the warranty expires. A good majority of GM owners, myself included, pre 2009 had our cars constantly fall apart after 3-4 years, spending thousands upon thousands of dollars keeping them going when they were only 4-6 years old

    Its going to be a couple more years to see if GM's crappy long-term reliability pattern has changed now that they have restructured and completely changed their products!
  • marcus216marcus216 Posts: 78
    I find it interesting that so many car mags and others compare the TL to BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Infiniti G, etc. I guess this is done because of price. I just leased my first TL, a non-tech SH-AWD, and when I was shopping, I looked at BMW 5, Infiniti M,Volvo S80, Audi A6, Cadillac CTS, My view is that the TL compares favorably to all these models in ride, comfort, room, engine, interior, etc. And the TL price is significantly lower. I like all the above models, but could not justify the higher prices. The BMW has an incredible combination of ride and handling, but not significantly better than the TL. The Audi interior is about as good as you can get. But the interior of the TL, while not Audiesque, measures up failry well. The new Infiniti M also has a great interior, excellent engine, and decent ride. But really isn't an overall better car, in my opinion. And the CTS, I just did not like. Not knocking it, just not for me. And the Volvo was just boring, though a good car.

    When you put the new TL up against the premium midsize European or Japanese sedans, I think it measures up quite well. And that is why it was my car of choice.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,261
    marcus.....I've always felt that the TL is kind of a "between" car. It's slotted right between the BMW 3 and 5 Series. Same for the A4 and A6. Although, I think it has more in common with the 5 series and the A6 than it does with the 3 Series and the A4.

    I can't make the Buick connection, however. I don't know of anyone who owns a TL that cross shopped a Buick, of any of their models. Again, I think GM has made it clear that they were targeting the Lexus IS/ES with Buick. Even there, I can't see where a Lexus buyer would wander into the Buick showroom. Maybe someone who's looking at a CTS but is put off by the Cady's price would move to a LaCrosse.

    I just don't see someone looking at a TL, an Audi, a BMW, an Infiniti, going over to the Buick showroom. Sween is the only person I've heard of who would do that.
  • marcus216marcus216 Posts: 78
    I actually did look at the LaCrosse. When I car shop, I use it as an excuse to test drive as many models as I can, even those I am not really interested in. I had seen it at the auto show and liked the look. Other than the A pillar issue and lack of power in the 3.0 litre engine (only one offered in AWD version), it is a very nice car, but not my cup of tea. I do think it has some advantages over Lexus ES, but it is totally different type of car than TL. So I agree, hard to see folks seriously cross shopping both. It is tough to get over Buick stigma of being large cushy cars for those over 70. But GM is working on that. We will see how the new Regal plays out.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    And I love the steering feel (as well as the steering wheel).

    Talk more about the steering. Some car magazines have said that 09, 10 TLs have "numb" steering. Wife and I have an 04 and 07 TL and are waiting to see if Acura will fix up styling and perhaps other stuff such as steering before we will consider another Acura. Our 04/07 TLs are not as large as new gen and are probably somewhat more nimble. Do not especially want more heft, Don't need more space in back seat, who uses that much anyways. Have a Ody van for utility, hauling people.
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