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Acura TL 2009

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Comments

  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited June 2010
    listen I hear what you guys are saying about Toyota-Lexus, but have either of you ever driven a Camry XLE back to back against a ES350, on the exact same route? I have and I can tell you, there is many many differences between them, besides the top quality materials, ergonomics, and fit/finish of the ES over the Camry; the ES has refinement over the Camry in pratically every single area!

    the ES350 was much quieter, had slightly better handling (compared to Camry of course), much better body control over its motions (meaning, it had better control over those floaty, up and down bobbing then the Camry does). The seats were much more comfortable in the ES then Camry, etc. I could go on and on with the refinement/improvements the ES had over the Camry but I don't want to make a long story about it. Just as a side note, I know it sounds as if I'm defending the ES but I only test drove them to see what they were all about; I ended up not going with a Camry or ES350 because they do not jive with my driving style/dynamic because of how little feedback and super soft comfort they give.

    this ES is rebadged Camry is analogous to the TL-Accord and TSX-Civic arguments people make that the TL is nothing but a guise up Accord and TSX nothing but a guise up Civic; I've test driven all these cars back to back and noticed many many differences between the two, that I feel warrant the higher price and refinement of the Acura models. I can tell you I might have said this back with the 1st Gen TSX and 2nd Gen TL, but since the 3G TL and 2G TSX, I think that, except sharing the same platform, the TL and TSX are very very different then the Accord and Civic in every single area.

    I think a lot of people make these criticisms to try and further denigrate Acura and Lexus owners so they can feel all high and mighty/superior with their Mercedes and BMW purchases, which don't have any mainstream company here to compared to and thus, can never be criticized for sharing engines/drive trains/platforms with their mainstream company.

    I'm not trying to knock the Camry, Accord, and Civic. I have friends or family members who have each of these vehicles and they are great bang for your buck cars but there are many many differences between them and their luxury counterparts!

    I do agree, I hope Lexus and Acura take a page from Infiniti's book and move away from the sharing of powertrains and platforms between their mainstream and luxury division. Starting in 2011, no Infiniti will share a platform with a Nissan. Supposedly, for the next Gen ES, Lexus is supposedly going to be not sharing the Camry platform anymore and it is going to have its own unique drivetrain, platform, etc so we have to see how that goes.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    edited June 2010
    Totally agreed. Hyundai will not become a luxury car company in current form. Remember VW Phaeton? People just not going to drop serious money on a mass market brands no matter how good and refined they may be.

    Currently, Hyundai is competing on the "value" front by offering respectable alternatives to the established luxury brands at a steep discount. Once it builds up market acceptance, don't be surprised when Hyundai starts a luxury division.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,190
    ", I think that, except sharing the same platform, the TL and TSX are very very different then the Accord and Civic in every single area. "

    The tsx sold here is the accord overseas. FYI
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,190
    Smarty think the genesis and equuos are not lux cars? The Koreans have a V8 and Rwd cars like Germans. Acura the brand is based off one car the accord (nice car) but it's in every model - Fwd safe car but not as "advanced" As advertised. Maybe the brand that brought the accel is changing the way we shop for cars in recessionary times. Sure 55k might be alot for this brand but if it compares to an S class I'm all ears. Just because the TSX starts at 28k doesn't make it hr standard price for a Lux division. The sonata turbo starts at 25k so you might want to drop the price of entry. I think your reading to much into the lux division thing.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    jtla...doesn't mean the Hyundais aren't nice cars. I doubt that Acura, MB, BMW, etc have lost sales to them over the Genesis, though. While they may put out cars they believe are competitive with the S Class, 7 Series, etc that doesn't make it so.

    Just look at the Sonata. It took several generations of the same model, and a couple of decades for them to be considered competitive in that segment.

    But, again this is not a Buick nor a Hyundai thread.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    sween...you're all over the place here. You own a G. In your previous posts, you stated you liked Buicks. Now, you say you like Hyundais. Yet, you're posting in an Acura TL thread. Seriously, you seem like you're lost.

    Both Buick and Hyundai have dedicated threads here that would probably serve you better. There's always the Infiniti threads where you might find info geared more specifically to you, too.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited June 2010
    No, I did not say that, which means you didn't read my posts carefully. I said the Genesis and Equus ARE luxury vehicles but Hyundai is not a luxury company in its current form, yet people like yourself and others, are trying to compared to Hyundai right now to Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, Audi, etc etc and its just an apple to orange comparison right now because Hyundai as a company is not a luxury company. Plus, the Equus hasn't even been sold here yet and we have no idea with sales numbers how that is doing or going to be, so lets not jump the gun. If the Equus does not sell well here, its going to be hard for Hyundai to justify either converting Hyundai into a luxury division or establishing a new Korean luxury division here.

    I'm not saying Hyundai isn't making a comeback here, but to compared Hyundai (in its current structure) to all the other luxury companies, some of which have been here a long time with a long history, is just laughable at this point.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    sween, you really need to start paying attention! I said the TL and TSX share a platform with Honda vehicles and that Acura needs to begin switching away from platform sharing, but that is where the similarities end between the Honda and Acura vehicles.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Don't get me wrong, the Genesis was a really nice luxury car and I've test driven it and sat in it many times, but the Genesis, in regards to its sales, is far from dethrowing Lexus, BMW, and MB from their seats as the premier luxury companies in this country.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    edited June 2010
    Sorry, didn't mean to hijack an Acura thread. If you scroll back a few pages, you will see that the Hyundai discussion started when someone cross-shopped the FWD TL with Lexus ES and Hyundai Genesis.

    To compare the Genesis with MB S-class or BMW 7-series would be far fetched. However, like Acura with its TL, Hyundai is aiming the Genesis at potential buyers of BMW 3- and 5-series, MB C- and E-class, Lexus GS and ES, Infiniti G and M. Since they are after the same market segment, it is fair to say that Genesis and TL are competing with each others.

    Basically, the Korean are following the foot steps of the Japanese. How successful is Hyundai with the Genesis? Well, I don't have the actual sales figures, but here in Southern California, the odd of sighting a Genesis is much greater than of a TL or an M. Lexus is still holding an edge as a luxury car maker among the Asian brands.

    Personally, I would pick TL-SH-Awd over Genesis as E-class or 5-series alternative (but not as 3-series alternative, for which I chose G37). However, the mass market shoppers not necessarily think the way we forum-posters do. I believe that at least a fraction of Genesis sales came at the expense of the TL (and, on the same token, of the ES and the G or M).
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,190
    All over the place as stated I didnot start the Hyundai arguement I just expanded t to the line of cars presently available from Acura. I think Honda has gotten lazy producing Acura and I posted the Korean company has huge advantages over this present line of acuras. Again I will point out the Buick ads ( as you mentioned you would never cross shop ) as others might want to know Acuras present compition is. It's not the year 2000 anymore- 10 years have past and hyundai has moved upwards while Acura by most accounts has yet to "advance" despite what the TV ads tell you.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    edited June 2010
    jt....I don't know if such stats are kept, or would be available. But, it would be interesting to see how many cross shopped an Acura, an Infiniti, a BMW, a Mercedes, a Lexus, etc. And, how many chose the Genesis.

    My Acura dealer also owns a Hyundai store (among other brands). They're within a football field of each other. While not scientific by any stretch, my Acura dealer has Infinitis, Benzs, BMWs on his used lot. I presume they were traded in on Acuras.

    On their Hyundai used lot, they have Mitsubishis, Suzukis, a couple of Smart cars, Chevies, etc. Presumably, traded in on new Hyundais. So, probably different clientele looking for different types of cars.

    I would expect Park Ave, LeSabres, Crown Vics, Impalas, etc being traded in on a Genesis based on what the used lot looks like.

    Again, the Genesis is not a bad car. I don't think Hyundai has many folks coming from a Lexus, an Acura, a BMW, etc as their core audience, though. Hyundai may get to that point. I think it's going to take much more than a couple of years. And certainly, they'd probably have to rebrand the Genesis and Equs to do so....as well as do the "finishing touches" that the other lux/sports brands do.

    Again, I don't know of anyone who has cross shopped their Infiniti or Acura with Buick or Hyundai except the few rare instances here. Obviously some of you have done that, but still ended up with an Acura or Infiniti. So, that tells me while you may have looked at those other brands, there's a reason you went with an Acura or Infiniti rather than a Buck or Hyundai.

    I guess the same can be said for those who might have cross shopped a Buick or Hyundai with a Lexus, or Benz, or BMW and chose not to buy the Genesis.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,190
    I would think that in a market like this people are looking for the most bang for the buck-- and that bang now includes the genesis, eqoxx, genesis coupe (as a comp to BMW 3 and infiniti G), and the sonata. Refinement maybe needed but from all accounts on the sonata its making a huge statement on that.

    DAN I think your observations on a local OH dealership are great but do not have any substance to make a quantifiable assumptions on the overall car market, sales numbers do.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    yeah, the Sonata is not an entry level luxury car like the others and the most expensive it gets, fully loaded is about $28k some dollars!

    The Equus is going to be an over 50k bucks so again, you're putting it in the wrong segment. It competes with the M, 5-Series, E-Class, GS, etc!

    Some of the car's you include are just ridiculous for comparison purposes! You show me a 25k dollar Sonata shopper also looking at a 42k loaded TL with AWD.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    edited June 2010
    Okay, guys, while all the discussion is legitimate, I think we should respect that this is an Acura TL thread afterall. There is another thread for Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans which used to be one of my favorite thread but is somewhat quite lately. IMO, it will be more appropriate forum for the current subject. Let's move the ongoing discussion there, shall we?
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    exactly my point! lets leave the Sonata talk to the mid-size thread and Equus to the luxury performance thread!
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,190
    Smarty settle down- u see it's only a chat - and FYI we were talking about a brand not a specific car- do BMW and Audi a favor and don't include the TL as it s competition just like you want to exclude the genesis and equox (RL) and sonata ( tsx). Let's get back to talking about how many compliments the TL receives at the local wholefoods.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    edited June 2010
    jtla...you're right. This is a discussion that should be in the entry level lux sedan thread.

    sween...you don't like Acura. You don't own an Acura. Your comparisons border on ridiculous. And, you own a competing model. It's clear, that for whatever reason, you feel the need to denigrate the TL and/or those of us who do like and own the TL. No need to slam smarty, or myself, or what we like to drive.

    In all seriousness, since that's your only goal, there are other Infiniti forums which would probably be more inviting to you.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,190
    Dan from Oh, you have over 5k posts so you must know something on posting but my arguement again is for others, not the owners. but the potential owners who use these chats to compare models. I've said the TL is a nice car- but in my estimation (given facts: sales figures, car rags) its not in the class of the Germans or Infiniti when it comes to following.. I used to own an acura and used to like to drive it and since I now own a competing model I think my comments do have validity as I did the research before owning.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    :sick: :( :sick: :( :sick:
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Yeah I have a last Gen TL myself and there have been some things I dislike about the new TL and things I liked. I have stated them and that's that. I'm not crazy about the direction and choices Acura has made but I can debate and state that more professionally.

    You on the other hand seem to have some sort of personal vendetta against Acura or had Acura wrong him in some way b/c you constantly attack the new TL and Acura as a brand, and the people on here who like the new TL and are happy with their purchase. You seem to feel the TL is now the trash of the car industry since you constantly put it down and compare it to illogical cars that it doesn't even compete with!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,913
    You get the "honorary host of the day" award, jtla. Your membership will be free for the rest of the year. :)

    This is NOT a comparisons thread - it's a thread designed for people to get info about the Acura TL. If a new member drops in and asks whether he/she should buy the TL or a competing model, it's appropriate to offer pros & cons of each, but ongoing conversation about comparable vehicles should be taking place in the discussion linked by jtla. It's time to move on over if that's your bag, so further posts continuing this comparison conversation will be removed. Thank you.

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  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,190
    nothing personal- its all fact based. I've never said its trash (please dont put words in my mouth) and i actually said its a good safe car and offer good deals on leases- But i do think its laughable that some owners put this car against the BMW 5 or audi A6- cars that sell more (even as we are in a global recession and are more expensive) - have a proven sports/LUX backround. Sure i've pointed out other brands and cars - but they all have as much merrit as TL/BMW/AUDI- infact prob more so due the the FWD (non sporty) nature of the TL- I would like not to be bashed on these forums for given informed comments.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    Wow! "honorary host of the day" award!! Do I get to delete posts I don't like? ;)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,913
    Sure! Except the day has passed. Better luck next time. ;)

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  • marcus216marcus216 Posts: 78
    Interesting reading here the last few days. Why can't the TL be compared with a BMW 5 Series or an Audi A6? The three are comparable in size. Comparable in 6 cylinder power output. All have available AWD. They have similar warrantees. While I think the interior of the A6 is stunning, the TL's interior is certainly in the ballpark and the TL is roomier in the back seat than either and has, in my opinion, the most comfortable front seats. I know, I sat in all three. While the BMW 5 Series has a great combination of handling and refinement, the TL (SH-AWD), again, is in the ballpark. Now, if you you asked me to pick one of the three to own without regard to price, I would probably pick the A6. But that is meaningless because price does matter to most folks. And the TL is a great value considering it is $10,000 + less than the BMW or Audi for comparably equipped models.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,913
    We won't be, as I mentioned, including comparisons in this discussion - it's the wrong place. Please head to the RIGHT place if you wish to discuss comparisons. It's not difficult.
    (instruction not meant solely for the poster to whom I responded.)

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  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,190
    I'm sure that was not ment for me. Owners win congrats guys- Let's get back to the real discussion on how great the TL moves thru the twists in OH.
  • marco25marco25 Posts: 2
    Have Acura owners that post on this forum had accidents with their new Acura TL model? I have had my 2009 Acura TL Base Model for just a year and have had two accidents with this car and not my fault. I was rear ended recently by a driver traveling to close to me and went into my back end at 45 miles per hour on June 3rd, 2010. Four thousand dollars damage to back end and in the shop for one month. I got the car back on June 30th, 2010. The very next day on July 1st, 2010 my vehicle was parked and hit again in the same rear area in a parking lot with minor damage. I am still trying to settle with insurance people from the first accident.

    Do members of this forum that own this new Acura TL model, find other drivers come up too close to you or can't judge the backend and its length in parameter of their car when behind you? I have seen two other new Acura TL'S in my area with rear end damage. Is this auto to long in length?

    I must attest that the new Acura TL does stand up to it's 5 Star crash rating. If I was driving a smaller and less protective auto I probably would have been taken to the hospital with neck and back braces. I have an incredible clean driving record. Is this just the draw of bad luck.? Working with insurance companies sucks. I hope none of you ever have to experience this hell.
  • rlonn1rlonn1 Posts: 106
    Sorry to hear about this unfortunate situation. My 2010 TL is only 4 months old, and due to the superior breaking and steering control, I have been able to avoid 2 near miss accidents to date. I would not attribute this to the size of the car. One could argue that the car is so DAM attractive, that folks are looking at your car, not at the road.

    We all try and drive defensively, breaking WELL IN ADVANCE of the traffic ahead slowing down on the freeways here in San Diego.

    I drove my 1995 Nissan Quest for 143,000 miles and not a single nick in the windshield. Got my 2005 Honda Pilot and in the first 3,000 miles got two Bad Chips in the glass window! I think it is just the luck of the draw, nothing to do with you or your car, just being at the wrong place at the wrong time...

    I will say that when I park my car, I do look around for a space that gives me as much clearance as possible, so I park between two small cars, not between two large SUV's or trucks, even if I have to walk further... :blush:
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