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Acura TL 2009

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  • Speaking of the new accord, I saw a white one this morning in the Commuters Parking Lot and I have to say I like it.It was a V6 sporting the double chrome pipes that and an aggressive stance- I liked it.
  • I have just located the weight distribution specs for the MT 08 TL.

    autos.yahoo.com/acura_tl_type_s_6_spd_mt-specs/?p=ext - 97k

    It lists 60/40 front to rear and 62/38 for the AT. If the 09 is similar in these ratios then the TL will not be handle as well as the 3 series even with SH-AWD. BMW has been perfecting the handling of their vehicles with a rear wheel drive layout since the 60's with the 2002 and others.

    Honda & Acura must create a better front to rear balance. Also the engine needs much more torque available in the 2000 3000 RPM range Get with the program Honda or get left in the dust!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Also the engine needs much more torque available in the 2000 3000 RPM range Get with the program Honda or get left in the dust!

    Its not the engine. Drive the TL with 6MT and see if you have similar perception. The problem is the way Honda gears its automatic transmission. The "program" needs to be about proper transmission ratios (which means, Honda has to venture into 6AT arena with the same aggression that BMW and Lexus (IS/GS not ES) have done.
  • dude, I drive an 07 TLS MT and it seems sluggish in that range. I bet the base TL auto is even weaker at low RPM. Wouldnt a DOHC help torque matters or maybe a clean diesel engine option? BMW offers 300 pounds of torque at 1400 RPM. That is massive but I wonder how reliable that will turn out to be. :lemon: ">

    Anyone?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Acura TL Type-S delivers 90% of its peak torque at 2000 rpm. A DOHC isn't going to do any better than that.

    The new Accord Coupe/6MT seems to be using identical design to it (albeit slightly detuned), and with that combination, expect almost 0.67g around 2000 rpm. A lot of cars, especially front drivers, don't have that kind of thrust even at peak.

    Here is a link to TL-S dyno. Thats about as flat a torque curve as you'll see anywhere. And has the broadness factor too. Note that there isn't a whole lot of difference between peak torque and what it delivers at just 2000 rpm.

    Diesel will get torque, but less power and with reduced refinement.
  • your link gives this message
    Forbidden
    You don't have permission to access //article_files/686783/07vs04tl_6mt.gif on this server.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Apache/1.3.31 Server at sohc.vtec.net Port 80

    can you post this in some other format?

    diesel will seem more powerful, provide better gas mileage, and I have never heard of reduced refinement in a clean diesel. Where are you coming from with that line of logic?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hmm, the gif displays for me. :confuse:
  • Ok, you have to be registered with the Temple of VTEC website then you can view it.

    You are right that torque curve is impressive.

    :)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Really? I didn't think/know that I was! :blush:
  • Pat you are the host here, what is the ideal sports luxury car?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Actually Kirstie is your host, I just visiting because I like reading about the future TL! :)

    I don't know the answer to your question, but it might be interesting to pose it in the Luxury Lounge. Of course "ideal" is subjective, so ideal for you will depend on your priorities.

    Luxury Performance Sedans and/or Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans may interest you as well. The latter is the category where the present-day TL is discussed.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    diesel will seem more powerful, provide better gas mileage, and I have never heard of reduced refinement in a clean diesel. Where are you coming from with that line of logic?

    Good or impressive "for a diesel" doesn't mean it is just as good as gasoline. There must be a good reason for gasoline cars to still exist in Europe. If I were buying a diesel today, it would be purely for fuel economy purpose, not looking for power (or feel of) or refinement.

    A downside to diesel is narrow power band. Sure, the power curve is flat (fairly close to peak power for most part due to impressive but quickly falling torque curve), here is something that I picked up from E320 CDI review:

    "With its narrow power band, the seamless seven-speed transmission shifts often and the torque is not there forever, but it's pretty remarkable when it is."

    Another downside to diesel, often missed, is the additional weight they bring, around 200 lb. One of the worst offenders in that regard is Honda's Civic diesel/EX, which weighs a whopping 360 lb (163 kg) more than Civic 1.8/EX.
  • Well done.

    Does the Honda diesel available in Europe have a narrow torque band?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Yes, like every other diesel. Here are the specs:
    2.2-liter, 138 HP @ 4000 rpm, 251 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm. I believe the redline is 4500 rpm.

    The diesel advantage is that the engine is making 70% of its peak at just 2000 rpm. That accounts for better performance compared to similarly powered (or slightly more powerful) gasoline engines. So, a 140 HP gasoline won't perform as well as 140 HP diesel since the average power is higher in the latter.

    However, we start comparing peak torque numbers, and often find, as in the case above, the diesel produces nearly as much peak as many V6 gasoline engines and at a much lower rpm. The problem is that being a turbo, diesel engines show an abrupt jump in torque curve around 1500 rpm, and fall like a rock off a cliff around 3000 rpm. While V6 gasoline engine will have a much broader torque curve, even if its peak were slightly lower. The result is higher peak power.

    And since most V6 engine would rev to 6500 rpm or higher, they can be geared 40% shorter. And that helps address the torque issue.

    Diesel, as it is now, would make more sense in people/load haulers though. By that measure, MDX will be a better candidate for it than TL.
  • Hey guys, i was driving from Irvine to San Diego today on the 5 when i spot two cars in full camo. I as i pass them, i snap a couple of shot from my camera phone. The front grill had an acura symbol under the camo, and it looked like the grill on the new MDX.

    Please excuse the horrible pictures, hopefully you will be able to at least get an idea

    [IMG]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l258/Listn2marley44/newtl2.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l258/Listn2marley44/newtl.jpg[/IMG]
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Good job. Looks like it is the next TL (based on other spy shots).
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    The fact that you saw this and had time to take 2 shots... I commend you!

    I know it's super hard to go by a few pics, but from the first shot, the front end (to me) screams "Pontiac" and that's not a good thing.

    In the second shot, it looks smaller than the current TL but carries most of the same body lines.

    From the spy pics of the Honda Accord, I thought I'd hate the new look.
    Seeing them on the commercials now... I was wrong.

    I cannot have an opinion on this new TL design until I actually see one. :(
  • I'm having a hard time viewing those pics, a little help?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    upstatedoc, try it now...
    Pic 1
    Pic 2

    There are more spy shots available elsewhere (you could go to C&D, or TOV, probably here in Edmunds too).
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