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Acura TL 2009

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  • mocozekemocozeke Posts: 1
    My 2003 just passed 133,000 miles. I have loved it since the day I bought it. I dd not like the 2004 redesign or the 2009 redesign. When I see the back of one, the only thng I think of is "have a nice day" de to the labels on each side, the logo in the middle and the big smiling trunk. [front smiles too] However, I may look past the exterior. I had not wanted to even go for a test drive due to the outside. I test drive ES and that stunk, test drove the Genesis (I like it, wife did not), looked at used A6 and E350 and have not found anything as nice as my old TL. Did anybodyown th 2003 and how does 2010 compare to that? Thanx
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    Graphicguy,
    I used to use Pro Engineer to design fairing for HPV, Human Power Vehicle, as my senior project and create 2D cable drawings using Proe when I worked part time at Palomar Technologies, and worked part time at PTC for couple months testing software back in my college days about 10 years back.

    Ah, creating 2D drawings using surfacing was so much "fun" to say the least.........

    Well, I would not called myself an export back then ;)

    Good old days...........
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    mocozeke....I had an '04 TL, and currently have a 2010 TL SH AWD. The '04 was the 3rd generation. The '03 was the 2nd generation.

    Pretty big differences between those and the current 4th generation. Bigger motors, more HP, better interiors, better suspension, etc. They all employ double wishbone suspension (pioneered by Honda) and multi-link rear. Most bigger sports sedans use the multi-link rear in their larger offerings.

    Performance, give or take (SH AWD),

    5-speed automatic..
    0-60=5.5 secs

    6-speed manual
    0-60=5.2 secs

    Both will run the 1/4 mile in the mid 13s.

    Other upgrades....fluid filled engine mounts. Upgraded brakes with cooling ducts (SH AWD).

    Don't know how much you know about Acura's SH AWD. But, in essence, it is capable of shifting torque, not only front to back (as most AWD systems do). But, it can also transfer torque side to side, too.

    In short, it handles worlds better than my former '04 TL. It's a bunch faster, too.

    Those are the highlights. In order to understand how they feel, you really should test drive one. It's very "tossable", and inspires confidence, regardless of road or its condition. Going into corners, at speed, instead of swinging out it's tail, or understeering, it remains flat. It also bites down in corners as it shifts torque front to back and side to side. It's extremely hard to upset it (short of the laws of physics).

    Every tech feature you can think of comes standard in the tech package on either the base or SH AWD version. Keyless entry, pushbutton start/stop, probably the best OEM stereo I've heard in any car, regardless of price. Auto climate control. Blue Tooth phone. Nav with weather and traffic guides. Very, very nice sport seats (SH AWD).

    If you live in a climate that is wet, or gets snow, I'd probably stay away from the HPT tire option. Even with SH AWD, those wheels/tires are not good in wet/snow. Plus, they make the ride border on harsh. The standard wheels/tires to a good all around job.

    Hope that helps.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    proe, it's been awhile, but in the past, I've used SolidWorks when I had a hand in doing some industrial design work. I liked that package.

    Most of what I've had experience in has been in the 2D world, though.

    I've always been curious about PTC. Their sales people were always over bearing. Based on that alone, I never recommended using Pro/E.
  • ChasboyChasboy Posts: 186
    edited March 2010
    Stereo: It is great, but I hate to admit it, but I think the unit in my Honda Element is a tad better! :confuse: maybe it has to do with all the "reverb room' in it, but the sub woofer has more 'boom' than the one in the TL. I haven't noticed much difference in the sound level when changing modes, but I listen to AM most of the time, so don't go by me. ;)

    sween, you could not be more wrong about the base TL. Honda has done a great job separating their lines, and the TL does not have a 'Honda equivalent'' as the ES 350 is to the Camry. The TSX is based on the European Accord, but that is as close as it gets.
    Statistics, real or imagined do not cause one to love a car, living with it does.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    The Lime Rock facility that "sween" referred to runs "open wheel" cars in their "race" courses. Lot different than any car you drive on the street.

    Setting a car up for track, as in auto-cross events or bracket racing (straight 1/4 mile runs) is quite a bit different than finding a good handling car on the street.

    Comparing a TL to the ES350, or any type of cars of that ilk, I've ever driven means that someone hasn't really driven the TL. Even the TSX, the previous RSX, or even any of the "S-type" Acura versions (all of which were FWD (which is something difficult to autox) won't tell you very much about how it performs on the street.

    Even great FWD handling cars (like the Mazdaspeed 3) will not be able to mimic what the TL can do. Given that the TL (SH AWD) is so much bigger and heavier, makes it even more amazing.

    Cars of this ilk, like the BMW xDrives & Audi Quattros, along with the TL SH AWD are amazing vehicles. But, those who like the ride/handling of a Lexus ES aren't going to like any of the afore mentioned models. They all handle much better, but they all ride much firmer, too (not harsh, but firmer).

    To each their own, though.

    The weather's broken here. It was a sunny, crisp day yesterday. So, I took the long way around while running errands last night. Hit some scenic twisty roads. I know I've only had my TL for a little less than a month. But, it's hard to upset it. Matter of fact, regardless of how "hot" I went into a corner, it would just "bite" and hold its line.

    Given the same roads, an ES would fall all over itself, even if you could gain any feedback through the steering wheel. NO doubt I would have put an ES in the bushes doing the same type of driving on the same roads.
  • Just picked up a beautiful 2010 base TL in Basque Red. The car looks great but I can't stand the way my Pennsylvania license plate (yellow, white, blue) looks in the back, and the bolts holding it on look terrible. Does anyone know of a nice license plate frame in a metal similar the the brushed metal on the rest of the car?

    Thanks!
    :cry:
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    edited April 2010
    as "Graphics" guy mentioned Lime Rock does run "open wheel" cars on the "race" track-- but what he failed to mention they also have "club" events and an "auto" cross course. In this setup normal cars-- BMW's, Minis, Audis and others can join in the fun and put the street legal cars to the test.

    Standard TL = Lexus ES-- both are based on Accord/Camry- both FWD, both auto, both heavy, both V6- same class, same price range- acura is clearly targeting the ES with this TL-

    I would bet if you asked an acura dealer he would say he misses the OLD TL and by the looks of the sales data on wiki the public agrees.
    sales:
    2006 71,348
    2007 58,545
    2008 48,766
    2009 33,620 (new model)

    (i'm sure you could add another 10k cars if the economy was better -- but numbers tell the story)

    again the AWD is a "huge" step up - i'm sure it "bits" in the corners-- but how many of the 33k plus TL's sold came in AWD form-? """""""""""""" """ "" '" "" "

    this company needs a redbull quick-- the zdx-- what are they doing
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    edited April 2010
    EVERYBODY...every model (save for Suzuki, Hyundai/Kia, Subaru) lost their [non-permissible content removed] in 2009. Any brand/model who introduced a new (or totally revamped model) did so in an economic climate that was poor.

    BMW was down. Infiniti was down. Audi was down. In short, 2009 was bad for the car business in general.

    We hope (they hope) that things are revived for 2010. But, nobody who makes cars is having a heyday....except for a few peripheral brands (or those which are heavily discounted).

    No reflection on some worthwhile efforts (like the TL). The economy killed most of them.

    Sween....Limerock runs Mazda RX 8s, Mazdaspeed 3s, etc for their basic driving courses (Barber). So, which one did you participate in? Open wheel? Or basic driving? I used to own an RX8 by the way. Did you drive one of those? Which course did you take? Have you ever driven a TL?
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    edited April 2010
    Graphics guy-- i read the papers- thats why i mentioned the economy.. but would they have sold 2x ?

    I did a skipbarber 2 day HP program- pretty cool - drove a 911 and a cayman - plus a 3 series. The basic has the mazda products. you should check it out if your in the area or near one of these programs-

    TL- i have driven it-- not in AWD form - a coworker and I traded for a weekend. really cool technology- lots going on on the dash - good power. Nice safe car. Not a hint of sport in standard form- like the ES. congrats on the new rig-- take it easy on the twists.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Lets just say I'm glad I got my 2008 TL when I did. There are things I like and dislike with the new TL but one thing I am a bit annoyed with Acura is, and they are not alone in this of course, but how they cheapened out on a couple of materials and how much more plastic had been added to the interior compared to the 3rd Gen.

    One glaring example is this, the new TL's have cheap plastic imitation aluminum trim on the center consoles and doors. It looks okay from a distance but if you feel it you go, damn man! My TL has ACTUAL metal trim on the center console and doors of the car. You would not believe how cold it gets to touch in the winter months.

    Now again, Acura is not alone in this. I have seen Lexus and BMW cut a few material corners as well among other companies. Its a damn shame the car manufactures keeping raising the prices every year but put cheaper more plastic material into the cars!
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    sween....i used to spend quite a bit of time up at Mid-Ohio. Lots of Porsches. My RX8 was a great handler. Not in the 911 range, but fun nevertheless.

    The TL and the TL SH AWD really are like two different cars. The base TL is a good car. Quick, nicely built, more luxury than sport. When you get a chance, test drive a TL SH AWD. It's a totally different drive.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    smarty.....my TL has aluminum trim. I know the trim in my 3rd gen TL (even the leather) wasn't nearly as nice as my current one.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    edited April 2010
    rx8 o boy-- you wonder if mazda had to do it again would they??- underpowered - unreliable, overpriced, never sold- sorry for the same price you can get a WRX, or a base 370z.. just to name a couple-
    ROTARY = slow, terrible MPGS, and impossible to service. But it is a looker.
    i hope you got the rx8 with the manual because the auto produces what 200 hp??
    (didnt they have an a problem with false HP claims at one point)

    please tell me you got the TL in 6 speed?

    I
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    nah, I disagree on most of that; there is much more plastic materials in the cabin now that the 3rd Gen didn't not have! the metal trim on the doors in not actual metal, its imitation! I didn't notice any difference in the quality of the leather between the 3rd and 4th Generation; in fact the base TL in the 4th isn't even perforated which is a downgrade from from the base 3rd since it came standard with perforated; I can imagine the wrinkles/cracks that non-perforated base leather will be like after only a few years! I don't understand why you have to get the tech package and spend thousands of extra dollars for a nav system to get perforated leather? just boggles the mind! also, you have to get the tech package now to get the ELS surround sound; that came standard with the base without having to get the nav system! I don't know why Acura had to do that. Now they made the nav package a lot more expensive by including things with it that before came standard.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    edited April 2010
    RX8 was a 6 speed manual....237HP. Rotaries are a little bit of a different animal. Very high revers (9K red line). Very few moving parts. Very light. 1.3L motor making 237 HP is amazing. A truly amazing handling car.

    And yes, they expected the RX8 to come in at about 250HP. Before they hit the dealerships, they revised the HP ratings downward to 237.

    A little care had to be taken with them. They use a little oil by design....about a quart every 1,000,1,500 miles. Their claim to fame was they are light with that high reving rotary. That makes for a terrific handling car.

    MPG for a sports car is about average. But, with such a small power plant, some assumed it would get economy car MPG. Reving it to redline (which is hard to resist) doesn't make for good MPG, though.

    Unfortunately, the auto company meltdown has seemed to have stalled any further development of the RENESIS rotary. I hope Mazda keeps it alive. It is, and always has been, very unique and fun to drive.

    BTW....just curious, what do you drive now? Have you driven any of these cars we've mentioned here? RX8? TL SH AWD?

    IF HP is "your thing" then why not look at something like a Camaro or a Mustang? Those will give you that "stoplight to stoplight" performance you seem to like. They'll both save you a couple of bucks to buy, too. They aren't as sophisticated, nor refined, but they'll fit what you're looking for.

    Mitsu EVO (which I've never driven) or WRX (which I have test driven a little over a year ago) will be crude by comparison. They're geared more to the "big rear wing spoiler" set. But, if you're into that, or do a lot of autox-ing, those might be a possibility, too.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    smarty.....Don't know which TL you have. Base? I think the base model without tech comes with fake wood in the interior.....not the aluminum trim in the tech models.

    TLs have always been different when it comes to options. You either get the tech model, which has all the goodies. Or, you get the base without tech, which is still well equipped, but doesn't come with the ELS sterero, nor the Nav.

    But, you compare the models it competes with, say BMW for example, where their base models don't even come with leather, but vinyl interiors (they call it leatherette).

    Having had both the 3G and now the 4G, I can say that in every parameter, performance, quality of materials and build, features, etc. the 4G is better across the board.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    I drive an 07 g35x- bot new and has just 20k miles - great in the snow- fast and has all the options one could want for my new england commute. my only complaint is Mpgs and that fact that INFINITI never has offered a manual with the AWD - which i think is a huge oversight but I could not justify paying an extra 10k for a 335xi 6speed with all the options i have on the G. I like the fact the the infiniti is has RWD bias-which i feel is what is important when dealing with a sports sedan- I also like that they keep upgrading the car every 2 years- (more HP, better trans, touch screen nav, to name a few) As i mentioned before i have never driven the AWD TL, but did drive the regular TL-- i cant imagine the SHAWDTL would be much different ride- (unless on a twisty road going to fast - or your in one with a 6sp, how many of those were sold??) Would love to hear a review or thoughts from an owner of a 6 speed TL--

    rx-8- nope- never- no interest.

    HP - not my thing-nor is going from stoplight to stoplight in a rush.
    - but I do think its important if your going to drop 40k -

    I like the way you use "quotes" to throw "digs"-- its pretty "amusing." nice day today and i need to go outside to wash the spoiler and rims.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,896
    sween...no dings. Just trying to figure out what it is you want.

    Infinitis are nice cars. I almost bought a g37x(s) sedan. Didn't like the automatic tranny in it. It hunted for the right gear way too much. And, the sport seats were uncomfortable. Plus, I could have bought one cheaper than the TL SH AWD. Test drove several. One coupe x(s). One sedan x(s). And, one vert.

    In the end, I liked the TL SH AWD better. I would never ding anyone for the car they choose, nor their age, nor their income bracket, etc.

    Bottom line, the most hotly contested segment in the auto world is the sports sedan area. You've got Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, and from what some of you are saying, Buick is throwing their hat into that ring, too....all jousting for the same piece of that pie. There's not a bad car among them. Although, I can't speak to the Buicks, as I've not driven the LaCrosse. I don't think anyone has driven the Regal yet (except for maybe the trade rags).

    A friend of mine traded his wife's '07 G35x for a Ford Taurus SHO. That's not a trade I would have made. But, he's very pleased with his SHO. Plus, I have to admit, Ford did a very nice job with it. It's very fast. Not much of a handler when you compare it to the G or the TL, but it's got all the toys, in addition to being fast. I can see its appeal for a certain segment.

    Point being, there are lots of good cars out there now. One of them will appeal to a certain segment. Far be it from me to tell someone that one is better than the other.
  • jspagna1jspagna1 Posts: 34
    When we were shopping for a new car for my wife,we were looking at the 2010 ES350 & Maxima. Wife did not like the G35X(too small & uncomfortable). The ES350 had no road feel and was kind of an old peoples car according to my wife. We drove the Maxima, haveing owned 2 of them previously and she just did not like the interior, and I didn't like the drive.
    We were not even considering the 2010 TL until I convinced her to just test drive the car. Man we fell in love with the car and I love the fact that it is AWD. This is our first Honda/Acura product so hopefully it will serve us well as I ussually keep my cars for at least 10 years. We have also gotten many compliments on the car.
    I did have the front beak painted on the car to match the body color (WDP) which was a big improvement and the interior(Ebony) is absolutely incredible.
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