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Acura TL 2009

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Comments

  • sanishsanish Posts: 67
    I agree that the ES has been on 5 year cycle, but this time it might be on 6 year cycle. They will change the engine that is used currently on ES/RX to differentiate from toyota models, just a guess since Honda/Nissan do the same with most of their vehicles.
    FYI, IS was released in 2005 as 2006 model and needs to be redesigned in 2010 as 2011 model but that is not happening just a refresh again with 15% increase in fuel efficiency.
    As fas as RX, the next year model (2006-2010) was always introduced in Feb but with 2011 RX, it will be introduced in Fall.
    I agree that everyone's list is unique but if they are cross shopping FWD and RWD vehicles than they might be mis-informed.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,894
    sanish...I have to admit, I haven't kept up on what Lexus has been doing. While I didn't shop the IS 350 against the TL (did that against a previous 3 series I had for awhile), I did shop the GS350 AWD briefly. Again, not a bad car. While Lexus does have the luxury quotient down, even the GS as their sports entry wasn't my choice vs the TL SH AWD.

    I just think Lexus is going after a different buyer that those who are shopping Acura, Audi and BMW.

    Even the Infiniti G is getting long in the tooth, and they appear to be moving the G down market with smaller motors.

    While I doubt that Lexus will ever move into sporty enough territory for my taste, I'll keep an eye out for the changes you mentioned.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I think you were replying to sanish man, not me. I didn't ask anything about the ES-TL-Genesis thing! no problem though!
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Your right about the GS. It has sold very poorly for Lexus and has not done well at all compared to all their other sedans.The current GS is a thorn in Lexus's side. I think they are doing a complete redesign next year so it will be interesting to see what Lexus does to improve upon it b/c it needs improvements in several areas!
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    In regards to the G, right now, Infiniti is going to move it down market to compete with the TSX, IS250, 328i, A4 and Regal. Apparently, the new G25 is going to be virtually identical to the current G37, except its going to have the smaller V6.

    I was a little bit disappointed when I heard this because I was hoping their would be more than just the engine difference to differentiate it more from the already established G37 but apparently it is not. I suspect and hope, that if the G25 sells very well for Infiniti, in a few years, they will make it a completely separate model from the G37 (i.e. drivetrain, style, features, etc). Only time will tell of course.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,106
    If you take the Camry-clone ES & platform mate RX out of the mix, Lexus really doesn't sell all that many vehicles. The GS is a nice car, but get in one and then drive a 5 series. The GS steering is overboosted & has no feel to it. The suspension is too soft (for me), & the brake pedal is mushy at best.

    Interior materials? Gorgeous. Fit & Finish? As advertised. Quiet? Even just sitting in the car I'm astonished at how silent the car is.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    edited June 2010
    SUVs aside- let's take a look at Korea vs japan. Hyundai about to release a supersized sedan v8 powered, they already have a v6 and v8 powered genesis that starts in the mid 30,s, lets not forget about the coupe, they have a sonata that will soon sport a hybrid, a turbo 4 that puts out more hp and torque then the Base Tl for 8 grand less. Fwd 280 hp sound familiar? They are about to release another V8 with 425 hp. to me all they really néed to do is adapt a Awd system to the sedan- maybe call it Superdooper AWD or SD-AWD. Rutrooh
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,894
    edited June 2010
    nyc....those were my setiments about the GS. Granted, I really didn't give it much of a chance. Still, if I'm dropping $40K+ on a car, I better like it, a whole lot more than just a little.

    I do think that Lexus does one thing well. That is, while you can find some commonality between them and their Toyota bretheren (some switches, engine sharing, etc), no one can deny that they have the whole "nice build and materials" thing down pat. If that's all you're looking for, and as you point out, a quiet, disconnected driving experience, Lexus, and now Buick, have a car for you.

    Hyundai took a stab at the Lexus LS and Mercedes E class with the Genesis. Again, I don't know many who cross shopped the Genesis against the LS or E class. Some may have, I just never head of any.

    I like Hyundais. My son has a 7 year old Elantra that's only taken routine maintenance over 100K miles. They've got that warranty going on. The dealership experience needs to improve dramatically if they plan on trying to match the dealership experience I've had with Acura or BMW. But, they'll get there, I think.

    I had test driven the Genesis, both v6 and v8. It was more out of curiosity than anything else. Not bad cars. Again, not my cup of tea. I think those of us who drive TLs are looking for the luxury sport and refined suspension, and drivetrain that just isn't part of the package in something like a Genesis.

    I also hear that their coming out with the Equs, which is supposed to go up against the Mecedes S class.

    I think the folks who look at the Genesis may very well cross shop Buick, though.

    I just don't see a Hyundai, any Hyundai, being cross shopped with a TL. An Accord? A Camry or Avalon? Probably.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,106
    I agree that while the Hyundai "competes" with a TL pricewise, that I don't know how many people actually cross shop the 2.

    You're right about the GS - If you're going to spend the better part of almost $50K on a car, you'd better like it more than a little bit.

    My Problem with Lexus/Toyota besides the whole disconnected driving snoozefest is the fact that the Toyotas are so nice, that really the only reason to buy a Lexus is for the badge or the V6. I'm sure they are not cross shopped and Toyota doesn't care if you buy a loaded V6 Camry or ES350 because either way they get the sale. I remember reading somewhere that 90 something percent of the Camrys sold are 4cyl. So if you want the V6, you're pretty much going to have to go Lexus as Toyota dealers probably don't stock V6 Camrys. Someone the other day mentioned the ES is not a re-skinned Camry. Both cars have the exact same 109.3" wheelbase indicating they are the same car.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Hyundai is not going to become a luxury company, or be better than any of the other luxury companies, until they ACTUALLY become one; you don't introduce two luxury models, snap your fingers, and think your at the top of the luxury pack because of that alone!

    Second, we have no idea how the Equus is going to sell here; we have to give that time and see what happens!

    Hyundai, as a brand/company, is not going to be able to be compared to the other luxury companies until they stop selling models that costs less than 28k bucks! In their current structure, they are competing against Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Ford, and GM!
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited June 2010
    listen I hear what you guys are saying about Toyota-Lexus, but have either of you ever driven a Camry XLE back to back against a ES350, on the exact same route? I have and I can tell you, there is many many differences between them, besides the top quality materials, ergonomics, and fit/finish of the ES over the Camry; the ES has refinement over the Camry in pratically every single area!

    the ES350 was much quieter, had slightly better handling (compared to Camry of course), much better body control over its motions (meaning, it had better control over those floaty, up and down bobbing then the Camry does). The seats were much more comfortable in the ES then Camry, etc. I could go on and on with the refinement/improvements the ES had over the Camry but I don't want to make a long story about it. Just as a side note, I know it sounds as if I'm defending the ES but I only test drove them to see what they were all about; I ended up not going with a Camry or ES350 because they do not jive with my driving style/dynamic because of how little feedback and super soft comfort they give.

    this ES is rebadged Camry is analogous to the TL-Accord and TSX-Civic arguments people make that the TL is nothing but a guise up Accord and TSX nothing but a guise up Civic; I've test driven all these cars back to back and noticed many many differences between the two, that I feel warrant the higher price and refinement of the Acura models. I can tell you I might have said this back with the 1st Gen TSX and 2nd Gen TL, but since the 3G TL and 2G TSX, I think that, except sharing the same platform, the TL and TSX are very very different then the Accord and Civic in every single area.

    I think a lot of people make these criticisms to try and further denigrate Acura and Lexus owners so they can feel all high and mighty/superior with their Mercedes and BMW purchases, which don't have any mainstream company here to compared to and thus, can never be criticized for sharing engines/drive trains/platforms with their mainstream company.

    I'm not trying to knock the Camry, Accord, and Civic. I have friends or family members who have each of these vehicles and they are great bang for your buck cars but there are many many differences between them and their luxury counterparts!

    I do agree, I hope Lexus and Acura take a page from Infiniti's book and move away from the sharing of powertrains and platforms between their mainstream and luxury division. Starting in 2011, no Infiniti will share a platform with a Nissan. Supposedly, for the next Gen ES, Lexus is supposedly going to be not sharing the Camry platform anymore and it is going to have its own unique drivetrain, platform, etc so we have to see how that goes.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    edited June 2010
    Totally agreed. Hyundai will not become a luxury car company in current form. Remember VW Phaeton? People just not going to drop serious money on a mass market brands no matter how good and refined they may be.

    Currently, Hyundai is competing on the "value" front by offering respectable alternatives to the established luxury brands at a steep discount. Once it builds up market acceptance, don't be surprised when Hyundai starts a luxury division.
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    ", I think that, except sharing the same platform, the TL and TSX are very very different then the Accord and Civic in every single area. "

    The tsx sold here is the accord overseas. FYI
  • sweendogysweendogy Posts: 1,052
    Smarty think the genesis and equuos are not lux cars? The Koreans have a V8 and Rwd cars like Germans. Acura the brand is based off one car the accord (nice car) but it's in every model - Fwd safe car but not as "advanced" As advertised. Maybe the brand that brought the accel is changing the way we shop for cars in recessionary times. Sure 55k might be alot for this brand but if it compares to an S class I'm all ears. Just because the TSX starts at 28k doesn't make it hr standard price for a Lux division. The sonata turbo starts at 25k so you might want to drop the price of entry. I think your reading to much into the lux division thing.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,894
    jtla...doesn't mean the Hyundais aren't nice cars. I doubt that Acura, MB, BMW, etc have lost sales to them over the Genesis, though. While they may put out cars they believe are competitive with the S Class, 7 Series, etc that doesn't make it so.

    Just look at the Sonata. It took several generations of the same model, and a couple of decades for them to be considered competitive in that segment.

    But, again this is not a Buick nor a Hyundai thread.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,894
    sween...you're all over the place here. You own a G. In your previous posts, you stated you liked Buicks. Now, you say you like Hyundais. Yet, you're posting in an Acura TL thread. Seriously, you seem like you're lost.

    Both Buick and Hyundai have dedicated threads here that would probably serve you better. There's always the Infiniti threads where you might find info geared more specifically to you, too.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited June 2010
    No, I did not say that, which means you didn't read my posts carefully. I said the Genesis and Equus ARE luxury vehicles but Hyundai is not a luxury company in its current form, yet people like yourself and others, are trying to compared to Hyundai right now to Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, Audi, etc etc and its just an apple to orange comparison right now because Hyundai as a company is not a luxury company. Plus, the Equus hasn't even been sold here yet and we have no idea with sales numbers how that is doing or going to be, so lets not jump the gun. If the Equus does not sell well here, its going to be hard for Hyundai to justify either converting Hyundai into a luxury division or establishing a new Korean luxury division here.

    I'm not saying Hyundai isn't making a comeback here, but to compared Hyundai (in its current structure) to all the other luxury companies, some of which have been here a long time with a long history, is just laughable at this point.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    sween, you really need to start paying attention! I said the TL and TSX share a platform with Honda vehicles and that Acura needs to begin switching away from platform sharing, but that is where the similarities end between the Honda and Acura vehicles.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Don't get me wrong, the Genesis was a really nice luxury car and I've test driven it and sat in it many times, but the Genesis, in regards to its sales, is far from dethrowing Lexus, BMW, and MB from their seats as the premier luxury companies in this country.
  • jtlajtla Posts: 375
    edited June 2010
    Sorry, didn't mean to hijack an Acura thread. If you scroll back a few pages, you will see that the Hyundai discussion started when someone cross-shopped the FWD TL with Lexus ES and Hyundai Genesis.

    To compare the Genesis with MB S-class or BMW 7-series would be far fetched. However, like Acura with its TL, Hyundai is aiming the Genesis at potential buyers of BMW 3- and 5-series, MB C- and E-class, Lexus GS and ES, Infiniti G and M. Since they are after the same market segment, it is fair to say that Genesis and TL are competing with each others.

    Basically, the Korean are following the foot steps of the Japanese. How successful is Hyundai with the Genesis? Well, I don't have the actual sales figures, but here in Southern California, the odd of sighting a Genesis is much greater than of a TL or an M. Lexus is still holding an edge as a luxury car maker among the Asian brands.

    Personally, I would pick TL-SH-Awd over Genesis as E-class or 5-series alternative (but not as 3-series alternative, for which I chose G37). However, the mass market shoppers not necessarily think the way we forum-posters do. I believe that at least a fraction of Genesis sales came at the expense of the TL (and, on the same token, of the ES and the G or M).
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