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Acura TL 2009

rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
edited December 2013 in Acura
So the big rumor is SH-AWD as has been rumored for the last few years. Any more info or rumors on this new redesign automobile ? I expect major upgrades in Gadgetology, Quality, Performance, Power, but would love to know more details as I was a former 2005' owner and am very interested on how much this car will improve. I hope it isn't another G35 story where their were marginal improvements. I'd like to see the bar raised far enough to knock BMW's 335i of it's feet !!! ;)

Rocky
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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Problem is it will still likely be FWD based :( Also the AWD will likely also only come in AT like the G35x :(

    -mike
    Motorsports and Tuning Host
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    A dime and a donut says it's SH-AWD or at the very least, an available option.
    I expect the same engine, maybe just a little retuning.

    I also suspect that if it is SH-AWD, an Auto will be the only choice.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    scottm123 & paisan, if you both are correct this car probably will be a failure. It needs to be a "shocker" like the 2004' if it wants to earn some credibility. The 2009' Acura TL, needs to have Twin-Turbo power and SH-AWD with a 6-Speed option if it wants to steal sales in the ELPPS segment. ;)

    Rocky
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Posts: 992
    Many owners and even I'm starting to believe that with acura(honda's ) engine expertise, with a great balance of sport and comfort, the TL could be the ultimate car if it was RWD.

    Sh-awd is ok but it weighs alot! Also acura needs a 6-8speed automatic for better fuel economy.

    If it had the same base engine but tuned to get 260hp, and 250lb ft of torque, it could get the 3.7l v6 tuned to 310hp and 280lb ft of torque. It would be a great car! I just hope it gets RWD or Sh-awd or Both since the TL has 61% of its weigh on the front tires. I guess a Limited slip would fix the torque steer.

    -Cj :)
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The problem with tuning out a V6 is that no matter what you do, you'll still have a ver /\ pointy torque curve as opposed to a blocky one found on a V8. So combine that with the SH-AWD sucking down weight and driveline drag and you'll have an anemic car. With that said I'd love to see a RWD V6 version of the TL or TSX but I'm afraid that HA is still stuck on FWD based cars for the long haul.

    -mike
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    Agreed, but one word I never used in my post is "failure"
    The TL is what it is, and Acura does what's needed to keep that flame alive.
    It has a massive following and people buy them regardless of the shortcomings, or what could have made them better.
    It's an awesome car and for the money, an awesome value.
    (And this is coming from a guy who just bought a G35)

    I so wanted to like the 07 TL Type-S but for me, it just fell short.
    Adding SH-AWD to the existing TL Type-S, I most likely would have bought it.

    Yeah, folding rear seats are nice, but no deciding factor for me.
    If Acura wants my advice, stick with a solid and tested engine but get it over the 300 hp mark, add SH-AWD and a 6-speed manual, and DO NOT make the car smaller.
    Stick with what makes the TL such a nice car, and just make it better.

    Oh, and Acura, enough of the plastic wood, huh? :mad:
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    SH-AWD and a 6-speed manual

    I don't think they have an application of the SH-AWD + manual, there are very few MT systems out there with AWD, Audi and Subaru being the only ones I know of.

    -mike
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    I know, I know...
    I had that post all written up and previewed it, and thought... hey, since this is a wish list for the 09 TL, why not go all the way, and so, I added the 6-Speed.

    Just a wish list and most likely, very far from reality.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Agree. They really need to push the envelope with the 09' TL. We all know it will be built on the FWD 08' Honda Accord, so SH-AWD will be the only solution. My opinion is they should put the 3.2 back in and Twin-Turbo it with those turbo's from the RDX. The 3.2 V6 is still a great engine. I assume a 3.7 is a bored and stroked bigger version of the 3.5 V6 ?

    I do think Acura, needs to hit the hp. mark because it gives up the advantages of RWD with FWD/SH-AWD. To make it most cost effective they should make SH-AWD standard as it would cut production costs for the SH-AWD making it more ecoomically viable and it is indeed a great system as I've felt it's use in a 05' RL, when I baught my 05' TL

    I also agree the six-speed needs to return. what the hell were they thinking by making that a Type-S only feature ????

    I also agree the cheap looking fake wood was a big deal. That is why I baught the ebony interior in my 2005' that had the much better looking faux carbon fiber trim. I have pics of my former Acura TL on my carspace page here:

    http://www.carspace.com/rockylee/Albums/2005%20Acura%20TL/

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I just hope they don't ruin the TL's sleek styling. We will see good or bad probably this next Detroit Autoshow. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    And your pic brings me to another thought.
    What the heck is that thing hanging from your steering column???
    I love the G's Intelligent Key.
    Enough with integrating the key into a 2lb fob... make the thing keyless.

    As for the Twin-Turbo... One thing I loved about the TL is the economy. For a Sports Sedan with that power, it did awesome on the highway.. I had it up to 36 mpg.
    Taking the guts from the RDX will destroy the economy of this car, especially on the SH-AWD platform.

    They'll need to find a balance and I'm not sure if the Turbo fits the bill.
    Acura has tried the turbo in the RDX, but it has failed to impress me.
    I know it's a 4, but the thing does not offer what others call acceleration excitement. It suffers from turbo lag.
    Let them continue to use the RDX and maybe even the TSX for their turbo experiments.
    Until it's perfected, keep it very far away from the TL.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yes my fuel economy in my TL, would get 36-37 mpg on a flat road. I got 37 mpg with the wind against my back. The car was flat-out awesome. I liked the idea of turbo-charging because it would not eat the fuel economy #s like a bigger engine. I say take the 3.2 and Twin-Turbo it. I'm okay with turbo-lag if it returns the power. I have not driven the RDX, but the lil' 4-banger does do pretty good with all that weight. What other solution is their to push the hp. performance numbers where they need to be with SH-AWD ? The TL, needs to best the new CTS, 335i, G35, it it wants to gain any market-share. It also needs to keep those fuel economy numbers up as those are expected from a honda. If the 2009' Acura TL, becomes great like my former 2005 was.... I might be able to put my bad experience behind me with Honda, and risk buying or leasing a SH-AWD TL. That however will depend on a lot variables and I don't believe they will follow through but I sure hpe they do. ;)

    Rocky
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    If Acura wants the TL to do well in the performance segment, they need to keep the Type-S, but give it more than 20 HP and an ugly set of wheels.

    The TL sells in staggering numbers, but most of what I see on the road are driven by professional, middle-aged people, and older.

    Keep the base TL where it is, with a new body style and tech updates.
    That will sell to the current peeps who love what they already have and are ready for something new.

    Put the cash into the Type-S and let it compete with those mentioned above.
    The 08 CTS-V is gonna be crazy fast, but I personally think Cady builds crap and would never buy one.
    The TL needs to go where BMW and Infiniti have not yet gone, all while keeping the dependability that Honda/Acura buyers expect and demand.

    Engineers have their hands full, that's for sure.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The CTS-V for 09' is on my short-list. "Well if you wanna call a dozen models a short-list ?" :blush: I also think Cadillac's new launches are as quality and well built as Honyota's now days. However I agree the TL, should have a Type-S version also but I'd be impressed if they would keep the Alpha inspired design with clean looks and pour in the power. The bottom line is if they screw up this car it will be hard road for Acura's brand. The RL, is a nice car but it needs a few more technology's and a V8 or V10 if it wants run with the big dogs. What's I'd like to see is a 2009' SH-AWD Acura TL with a 6-speed manual, 350 hp via Twin-Turbo hybrid. Now that would be the ultimate green performance car. ;)

    Rocky
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    I'd like to see is a 2009' SH-AWD Acura TL with a 6-speed manual, 350 hp via Twin-Turbo hybrid.

    Holy Crap! LOL.... I'm in :D
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I find it hard to compare the TL to a G35 or CTS or BMW for the simple fact that it's FWD. I love the looks of the TL but can't get past the FWD low torque engines that HA puts out. To me it's just a loaded up Accord whereas the G35, CTS and BMW have no "base" lowend equivalent. They've differentiated them enough to not be a "fancy" XYZ base car.

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The Acura TL, will handle better than most of your RWD performance cars. It' will smoke a G35 in the corners. Go check out the GM on the offense forum to see the numbers
    x-runner put up from past edmunds.com tests. ;)

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Percieved performance is what we are talking about here. By the way I don't put any weight in "test" done by magazines or any online sources. In the real world performance the RWD cars will have a significant advantage in terms of being better balanced etc.

    Back to the percieved performance, take a look at "luxury performance cars" on the market, BMWs, MB, Caddy, Infiniti, they all have RWD based chassis, this chassis gives it a nice sleek hood line and the front wheels can be pushed forward to the corners, which you can't do on a FWD based car.

    Imagine though the current TL body with the same engine it has now but RWD, how much of a grand touring and classy automobile would that be?

    -mike
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    I'd also be careful with the TL vs G35 thoughts.
    A G35S equipped with 4WAS is not getting smoked by a TL in the corners, today, or any other day.
    And regardless of what the mags tell you, I have driven both, so I have my own opinion.

    Yes, I know about the Willow Springs thing.
    It's the best thing to happen to TL lovers.
    Why, however, did they put the Acura Sport model TL-Type-S up against the Infiniti base (Non-Sport) G35?
    Put it up against the 07 G35S with 4WAS and this has a whole new ending.
    The TL does not have the G's feel of the road.
    Now, don't get me wrong... the TL is a blast to drive and handles very well, especially for a FWD car.

    The G is right on the BMW's coat tails when it comes to feel and handling.
    That's something that cannot be said of the TL... yet.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I agree with Scott (also having driven both) and I have zero stake in either the TL or the G35 as I don't own nor plan to own either.

    -mike
  • ebbyebby Posts: 23
    I am skeptical if a SH-AWD on the 09 TL would dramatically transform it to a rear-drive performance sedan like the 3 series or the Infinity G. Acura still biases SH-AWD as default FWD (as in my current 07 Acura MDX), which only sends substaintial but limited power to the rear when front wheel slippage occurs.

    I still believe there is a fundamental difference between a RWD car and an AWD cars with a FWD bias. I also understand that AWD sedans handle marginally less than RWD versions, although they perform better in snow and foul weather.

    That said, the current TL is probably one of the best FWD best handling sedans on earth.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Posts: 992
    AWD vs RWD isn't always as one-sided as it seems! Remember back when the Audi RS4 beat out the M5(manual) in a comparison. I find it funny that the A4 can beat a 5 bust cant match the 3...

    Regardless, i hope to see a TL diesel. Imagine if the TL had a 3.5l Diesel engine with 230hp and 350lb ft of torque and 45mpg highway? AHHH the possibilities. This engine could see use in the RL, MDX, Pilot, Ridgeline, and odyssey...

    I know honda could do it! If Mercedes can drag 400lb ft of torque out of a 3.2l engine, 350lb ft isn't asking for much. Especially since the TL has a lower weight, and better aerodynamics... BTW, bmw does have a 335D...

    Now in realistic terms, honda/acura should be working on a bigger automatic. I prefer a 7speed but a 6 will be ok. Cruising at 70MPH with the tac above 2.8krpm isn't a good thing mpg wise... This tranny would be great in that diesel i mentioned...

    -Cj
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    ebby, I can look at the RL's track numbers with it's very limited power and porky weight as reference. I think a SH-AWD TL will pull .91+g's on the skidpad and improve that willow springs average to 69+ mph if it gets enough power ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Regardless, i hope to see a TL diesel. Imagine if the TL had a 3.5l Diesel engine with 230hp and 350lb ft of torque and 45mpg highway?

    Now that could be something :)

    Rocky
  • vroom5vroom5 Posts: 8
    As a Honda shareholder, an 04 MDX and 07 TLS owner, I'd like to see the 09 TL with the following:
    -cleaner more efficient engine (hybrid/biodiesel). Global warming is only going to become a bigger issue in the years ahead.
    -AWD with a rear wheel bias, wheels pushed to corners
    -manual option
    -more gears (6 or 7)
    -current power of TLS is sufficient
    -no weight gain over 07 TL
    -folding rear seat
    -hatchback version
    -improve visibility (reduce the blind spots)
    -rain sensitive wipers
    -keyless
    -upgraded interior (real wood, less plastic, denser carpeting)
    -true IPOD integration into the NAV system
    -everything standard for one price with an ability to customize via a selection of 3 or 4 different wheel options at the dealership (shouldn't drive up costs much)
    -+ all the current technology of the 07 TLS
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The TL, needs to upgrade the ELS 5.1 to at least RDX's 410 watt levels as well and needs ventilated seats. ;)

    Rocky
  • ebbyebby Posts: 23
    I don't doubt a SH-AWD TL could pull 0.91g. Even the current TL posted similar G and slalom numbers as the old Infinity G. The reference to Audi is also interesting...the legendary quattro in Audi AWD sedans is excellent on the skidpad partly because of a more even weight distribution. One of the "voodoos" of BMW chassis dynamics is even weight distribution. It gives the car a tossable feel with so much athleticsm. I had an 06 Infinity M35 - recently sold to purchase the MDX, with a near 50/50 weight ratio, it was magic in the bends with exceptional handling.

    This is an area I think Acura needs to address: nose heaviness: so much weight on the front wheels. I guess a SH-AWD TL with a better weigth distribution would be interesting.
  • scottm123scottm123 Posts: 1,501
    You lost me at Hatchback option
    Wanna hatchback, buy a Gremlin
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Also let's not forget that most if not all tests done by magazines/sites/etc are done with "stock" rubber. So for instance one car may come with crappy tires from the factory whereas another may come with some better rubber, thereby pulling a better g rating than the one with worse tires. Same goes for the handling tests etc.

    First thing I do on my cars is wear out those stock tires and put on some GOOD tires. Then again my summers are all R-compounds or near-R compound tires no matter which car I'm driving.

    -mike
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Posts: 992
    This is an area I think Acura needs to address: nose heaviness: so much weight on the front wheels.

    I agree!! Dont get me wrong but I think the TL is a great performing car with 61% of its weight on its front wheels. In fact, the TSX also has 61% on the front. Only the Sh-awd vehicles are different. The RL has 58% in the front so thats still no good.

    If honda moved this weight rearward more, i think the current TL would perform better! A Fullsize spare, battery in the trunk, More rear seat padding(more weight and better comfort ;) ),Transverse engine, ect!

    Switching to Sh-awd adds weight. Every vehicle with it weighs over 4klbs.

    Would anyone be interested in the TL if it had passive 4WS? That allows better turning ratio, better control at high speeds and even shorter braking distances. this link has more facts about 4 wheel steering (4ws)

    -Cj :)
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