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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    Yup, it's been a long time coming...
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,345
    with those that say "thank goodness it happened quickly." It was just hanging there.

    This isn't meant as a dig at GM, which I do have issues with, but rather saying that maybe they will learn more about survival once knocked from the perch they've always occupied.

    They have some good stuff in the pipeline and are beginning to market things that are a much more direct match to the competition and they've always had niche vehicles to keep them going.

    It likely won't take long for Toyota to be the guys with the bullseye on them.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Only the beginning.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    It likely won't take long for Toyota to be the guys with the bullseye on them.

    You can bet on that. I wonder if they just sold more vehicles or more gross $ales. I would rather sell 100k Silverado PU trucks than 100K Corollas. If it is a vehicle count it is more psychological than financial.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yep....... :( :cry: :sick:

    Rocky
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Oh come on, more psychological than financial? Toyota's annual profits are many many times those of GM, so selling Corollas must be good for something...

    But perhaps I have misunderstood: what is the difference between more vehicles and more "gross sales"? I am sure what this news piece is referring to is more vehicles sold.

    Look down the road to 2015. No-one will hold the title of #1 as long as GM did. And it will be the Chinese to hold it next. But GM may pass Toyota again to become #2 globally (after whoever is the top-dog Chinese automaker), what with its huge expansion in the fastest-growing market in the world, China.

    In sheer gross operating profits, I believe Toyota has been number one globally for a lot longer than just the first quarter of '07. But Porsche still holds the title of highest PER-UNIT profit...I would be intrigued to see anyone knock them off that pedestal.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    But Porsche still holds the title of highest PER-UNIT profit...

    That is hard for me to believe as I would think Bentley, Ferrari, would hold that title. :confuse:

    Well I suppose it's not to hard to believe because they are the only car company I've ever seen that can do a very mild refresh and sell them like hot cakes. They don't have to spend very much on R&D on exterior design because over the last 30 or 40 years Porsche's pretty much look the same. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I would rather sell 100k Silverado PU trucks than 100K Corollas.

    Not if you make less profit from each Silverado, than they make from each Corolla. Which I would not doubt is the case. The Silverado sells for more, but also costs more to make. If you were to compare total profits, GM would be at the bottom, and not #2.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Oh I'm sorry Rock, I wasn't including niche automakers like Bentley, Ferrari, and the like, I was considering the so-called "volume carmakers", which I guess means you have to sell more than a couple thousand vehicles per year.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    I really have no idea what they make on each vehicle. I know they have hung on to selling the big ones for some reason. My impression is there is not a lot to be made on the small cars. I know Toyota made more net profit. What was the gross sales was my question. I guess all the automakers are small potatoes compared to Exxon and WalMart. There was a time that GM was the biggest corporation. They lost that years ago. Now they don't sell as many cars as Toyota. Is that significant to the buyer? Dell sells a lot more computers than Apple or Sun Microsystems. Does that make Dell the best?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Oh I don't think there is any significance to the buyer in this. There isn't even really any to GM or Toyota, except maybe the bragging rights, and who cares? The so-called "winner" just gets thrust more squarely into the harsh spotlight of the global automotive media, as so many here have already pointed out.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Porsche is a volume seller ?...Excuse me while I laugh. What is considered volume ? I haven't seen a newer Porsche, except 1 SUV the other day down here in the Panhandle of Texas, in at least 3 years. If that's volume then I guess I need to be educated on the definition. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Porsche sold 34K+ vehicles in the U.S. alone in 2006. I think the point is, their vehicles are not hand-built, as some of the boutique automakers are. If anyone has Porsche's worldwide sales numbers for 2006, please feel free to chime in. :-)

    It's a lot harder to make massive per-unit profits when you churn out 100K vehicles or more per year and your volume model costs under $50 grand, than when you sell 1000 vehicles worldwide every year, and your volume model has a price in the six digits.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    Also when someone goes in to buy a Porsche the dealer knows there is no other car in the class. Kind of a sellers market I would say. I think Porsche has held that distinction for a long time. They are not bad on resale either. Keep it 10 years in perfect condition and you will likely sell it for more than you paid.
  • bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
    I agree with you guys :cry: :mad: :sick:
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    I am glad that this news is not deterring GM from keeping its head where it should be: the profits.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kc_flynnkc_flynn Posts: 45
    Don't fret. With all the quality problems Toyota has been having (i.e. Camry transmissions) let the suckers pay MSRP for a Toyota and the rest of us will get the quality cars at invoice.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    kc_flynn says, "...let the suckers pay MSRP for a Toyota and the rest of us will get the quality cars at invoice."

    You see the flaw in that plan?

    If you want GM to succeed, then paying invoice prices and cutting the GM profit down while expanding Toyota's profit by overpaying at MSRP.

    If you really want to help GM, go out and buy a "quality" GM car at MSRP.
  • kc_flynnkc_flynn Posts: 45
    I don't care about GM's profits. Why should I care? It has no impact on my life. That would be like saying I care about Target or Wal Mart's profits. I don't. I just know those are the places I can purchase quality items at the best prices.

    I care about getting a quality car at a good price. Looking out for #1! GM's bounced back with some good new vehicles.

    As a consumer you need to take advantage of that. I took advantage of Ford struggling a few years ago and purchased my new Explorer for $10K off the MSRP price. Been a terrific vehicle that fills our needs.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I just know those are the places I can purchase quality items at the best prices.

    In some cases at Walley World that is true. However most of their products are almost laughable. Especially when it comes to tools or furniture. I could break their pipe wrenches in half with my bare hands. :blush:

    Rocky
  • kc_flynnkc_flynn Posts: 45
    Rocky - I don't buy EVERYTHING at Wally World - just using it as an example. You know - why buy a widget for $20, when I can get the same widget for $12? at Walmart :)

    I don't buy clothes there either!

    Seriously, I believe GM makes quality vehicles overall and they are continuously improving. I'd rather buy say a Chevy Impala LT (a car that I really like) for $18K with incentives when GM is doing just ok as opposed to having to go to the dealership and fight tooth and nail with the sales staff, and spend $21.5K with GM profits and demand being high.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    it is still sad that the No. 1 automaker (volume) is Toyota. I've only owned two GM products in my 49 years of driving and they were OK. I have not owned a Toyota product and do not intend to.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Just tossing this on the pile: I buy all my Toyotas at invoice, except the last (I was trying out the internet thing - you don't get 'em down to invoice, but you also don't kill 6 hours at the dealership trying to whittle a sales manager down by $500), which I bought at invoice + 3%.

    Buyers who care about price and know how to deal (this is a minority group IMO) will get just about anyone down to invoice except on new and very popular models, regardless of whether it's a Toyota, Chevy, or Ford.

    GM is on the path, this latest news headline is meaningless in that context, and the path they are on will need another couple of years of travel before they get where they need to be. I hope all the execs quoted in the multiple articles this week actually believe the words coming out of their mouths: they need to be focused on profitability now, and largest market share is not relevant to that goal.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well we have had some very great comeback story's in this country. GM, will be like Rocky Balboa, because fighters, fight ! ;)

    Rocky
  • I would just like to say that it is great to see Toyota finally take the number one spot. They have worked very hard and their 50yrs of superior products have finally been fully acknowledged by the auto consumers of the world. Alas... we can only hope for Honda to be next.
  • bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
    50 Years of superior products?? haha plz Toyota only started making decent cars in the 90's

    Toyota is still a POS :)

    Believe me GM isnt out yet... GM has to much pride to lose its title to Toyota..so Toyota fan boys enjoy your victory while it last ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I guess he doesn't remember the 80's camcords that if they saw salt they would turn into dust after 2 winters. ;) If that is 50 years of "superior products" :confuse: Honyota's are only superior on the left coast and in Utah, Idaho. ;) It didn't hurt they had a little help along the way either to achieve their goal of being #1. They are still what #3 or is it lower here in the U.S. ?

    In America GM is #1. Ford is #2 I read today, and Toyota is # 3 ?

    Rocky
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