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Chevy Tahoe/GMC Yukon Hybrid

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Comments

  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    "According to the Chevrolet website the Tahoe Hybrid was due fall of 2007. I think it is fall and have not seen any. Edmund's do not have them listed. Not that I would even consider buying one. I would like to hear from an early adopter."

    GM is saying next month (Nov) for the Tahoe/Yukon Hybrid. We'll see.

    MPG- 20MPG is good for this type of truck (Tahoe/Yukon Hybrid). Compare this to my former gas-a hog Nissan Armada 12-13MPG all round. Even to my current truck the Honda Ridgeline 17MPG all round.

    Smaller SUVs are always a good bet for gas mileage. My second upcoming (next year) maybe a small SUV RAV4, VW Tiguan looks interesting. A diesel Tiguan would fit the bill quite nicely. I'd be interested to see those MPG numbers for that one. Looks pretty nice indeed. CRV is nice but definitely a chic car.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Of the smaller CUVs you mention, the Tiquan Diesel would be the only one I would have considered. Now that I bit the bullet and bought a gas guzzler Sequoia, I will not entertain buying another vehicle for at least a couple years. This is the time to buy a fullsized SUV. The savings will more than pay the difference in gas cost for the life of the vehicle.

    I saved $10k on my Sequoia. At $3 per gallon for gas it will buy over 3000 gallons of gas. More than I will use in 6-8 years at 15 MPG. You have to crunch the numbers before you pay a big premium to save fuel.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    I realize you like your HH, and I congratulate you on your purchase. However, I DID cross shop them, and found the CR-V superior (to the ICE version, at the time HH wasn't present).

    The whole point is that it IS less expensive, it HAS an I4 rather than V6, has a lot of usable space for 5 passengers, and I personally found the acceleration and handling to be superior. If an absolutely loaded CR-V EX-L / NAV is 27500, and a loaded HH is 37000, that is almost 10K difference - buys a lot of gas. And after 10 years the CR-V will probably have better resale (though you may not keep your cars that long), because after 10 years / 150K (in NY state) the hybrid parts will no longer have warranty coverage.

    BTW, I got about 21 MPG in town, in LA traffic. Never drove in New York, a hybrid might make more sense there.

    I hope you will pardon my posts; I'm still upset with Toyota for putting a V6 in the HH instead of an I4 - just imagine the MPG with the HSD and an I4 (at least as an option)! You are driving in NYC, and I don't think that in such terrain the two extra cylinders of the V6 add much value, especially in traffic - but they do require fuel to run. :confuse:
  • peraltaperalta Posts: 94
    By the way, I got my Highlander Hybrid for invoice price at 31K. I know how to wheel and deal. I even helped lots of friends purchase theirs for invoice price.

    I am glad to have a V6 since my drive to work is hilly terrain, >90% highway.

    I also had a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid before and it was obviously underpowered going up those hills. Fuel economy suffered on the hills. The highlander hybrid fuel economy and performance is not affected going up and down the hills.

    For a second car, I traded my HCH-2. I ended up with a Subaru outback and cancelled my order for a CR-V (AWD version) since the outback has slight advantage in fuel economy.

    I think, the best Toyota can make is a RAV-4 with TCH drivetrain plus a rear motor. I would say this will attain 33 MPG city and 39 MPG highway, oombined of 35.

    And if I drive, maybe I can squeeze 39 MPG from it.

    I tried to drive the outback to work. It is able to attain a round trip of 30 MPG on an ideal traffic conditions (no traffic jams, no crowded streets). However, by the time I refuel, the tank average is 23-25 MPG. Those intersections, traffic lights, crowded streets, traffic jams really do add up and kill your fuel economy.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "think, the best Toyota can make is a RAV-4 with TCH drivetrain plus a rear motor. I would say this will attain 33 MPG city and 39 MPG highway, oombined of 35."

    Yes, a Rav-4 with HSD would be awesome, but it might pull sales away from HH, and where would they put the batteries?

    Actually, CR-V and Highlander buyers don't tend to mix - Honda engineers for stiffer ride, smaller engines, and road feel, while Toyota engineers for ride quality and power. Different philosophies entirely...
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    "GM and other car mfg. are setting up the hybrid to be a failure. They are being heavily subsidized by the oil companies to not to proceed with fuel efficent vehicles."

    That is completely false. GM, Ford, and most other car manufacturers are public companies. So are the oil companies. They make statements to their shareholders every quarter. I suggest that you read their quarterly reports and look for such payments. There aren't any.

    I have to agree that this is false because the one industry is dependent on the other for its survival. When one, the oil industry, jacked the pricing after Katrina the sales of the other went into the dumps. Collaborators wouldn't have done that to each other.

    GM, Ford, and all the other manufacturers are doing everything they can to improve the mileage of vehicles while building vehicles that people want to buy. The fact of the matter is that, until the last couple years, most people in the US didn't want to drive small, fuel efficient vehicles. More people in the US now want small vehicles, but not everyone. And it takes several years for the manufacturers to bring new models to market.

    Again no disagreement.

    The most efficient way to improve the fuel economy of the US fleet is to increase fuel taxes and rationalize the diesel emissions regulations. There is a significant price elasticity to the demand for fuel. We should work with human nature, rather than trying (via CAFE) to force manufacturers to build cars that people don't want to buy.

    Again agreed, but - HUGE BUT - taxing fuel works very very well as shown in Europe. But to make it work it has to be painful. An additional $2/gal painful. Even if it's phased in it's got to reach a painful level to be effective.

    BUT... do you realize just how much money this will take out of circulation every single day? It's nearly ONE BILLION DOLLARS every day - forever - that goes into the Fed Govts coffers. Gone. And it's after-tax money. If like most you drive 15000 miles a year and average 20 mpg then you're buying 750 gal a year. That's $1500 additional taxes you'd be paying. Now multiply that by 150 Million drivers, not to mention businesses, and it's probably $300-$400 Billion taken out of our pockets at the pump every time we go there. Talk about a drain on the economy. That's money that currently goes to rent, food, clothes, vacations, schooling, etc.

    Finally, hybrids work pretty well on small cars in city traffic. But they are not simple technology. Witness the fact that the car company with the most proven hybrid cars, Toyota, has pretty much failed in their efforts to build larger hybrids. The Highlander, Camry, and LS600h hybrids have all had disappointing economy. That isn't because of some back room deal. That's because hybrids are hard to engineer.

    OK, outside of the first sentence this is just wrong. Unless you are an insider at Toyota you don't have any solid information on what is coming or what their strategy is. It's speculation at best. The fact that they are concentrating their efforts in the area where they are strongest sounds more likely. GM is concentrating its efforts in the area where it's strongest as well. That sounds pretty smart on both players part ( now I can see where there might have been some collaboration here ). And your understanding of the fuel efficieny of the various vehicles is based on your/our faulty measurement system. Do you realize that both the Highlander/400h and Tahoe/Yukon hybrids are more efficient than the Camry or Civic hybrids?
  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    "OK, outside of the first sentence this is just wrong. Unless you are an insider at Toyota you don't have any solid information on what is coming or what their strategy is. It's speculation at best. The fact that they are concentrating their efforts in the area where they are strongest sounds more likely. GM is concentrating its efforts in the area where it's strongest as well. That sounds pretty smart on both players part ( now I can see where there might have been some collaboration here ). And your understanding of the fuel efficieny of the various vehicles is based on your/our faulty measurement system. Do you realize that both the Highlander/400h and Tahoe/Yukon hybrids are more efficient than the Camry or Civic hybrids?"

    Between Toyota and GM, they utilize different Hybrid technologies. GM has the more advanced one as they utilize 2 sets of gearing ratios one tailered for low speeds and the other for higher speeds (Highway). However, Toyota has the more cost effective one. So the question is who has the leg up????

    As for Small SUVs versus the large SUVs, I need the Yukon because I need the towing capabilities. I have big toy to haul around, Need the extra power.

    Just curious, In NYC is their large SUVs driving around in the city like in Manhattan???
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    In NYC is their large SUVs driving around in the city like in Manhattan

    Every Wall street tycoon, poitician and rapper has to have a Hummer limo in NYC. Does not leave much room for the Prius taxi cabs.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    A good friend that I grew up with married a top exec at Citibank ( Ding! ), 7-figures annually. She, the exec, drives a Caravan my friend drives a Highlander.
  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    "( Ding! )"
    Its more like cashching.

    It been awhile since I've been to NYC (30Yrs+). Lot of tycoons over there with their souped up toys. Maybe I'll visit soon. Appreciate the answer.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Those are practical vehicles to drive in a rat race like NYC. I would be paranoid driving a nice new car with all the crazy cab drivers bouncing off each other. As much as I hate cities I cannot imagine ever being in NYC, let alone driving there.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Heh Heh.. I went to college there, lived there and worked there for 30+ yrs ( including driving a cab at nights while in college ). All in all I loved every minute of it, it's addictive frankly.

    I wish I had my Prius back then when I was commuting 30 mi from N Jersey to lower Manhattan in the 80s and 90s.

    Congrats on your new Sequoia, Gary. All the managers here who have the choice of what to lease or buy for their family vehicles take the Sequoia over the Land Cruiser for the comfort and space.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    That must be the reason the fleet managers I talked to all seem to drive the Sequoia.. I went for the last year of the model in hopes they have all the bugs worked out. :shades: It is also built in Indiana satisfying my desire to buy American made products.
  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    Nice article in Time magazine about hybrids. If you need to get educated on GM's hybrids products, get Time.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    I did own GMs first attempt at a hybrid PU truck. The only thing that impressed me was the 110 AC outlets for using power tools. It also held its value well. It cost me about $3000 to own it for 25 months.

    I think GM would have better served their customers with diesel versions that would pass emissions and guarantee better mileage. Time will tell if they made the right decision. Not Time Magazine.

    Is the article online for free?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "Is the article online for free?

    Yes it is. Go to Time.com and search hybrid in the search bar.
  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    "I did own GMs first attempt at a hybrid PU truck. The only thing that impressed me was the 110 AC outlets for using power tools. It also held its value well. It cost me about $3000 to own it for 25 months."

    Agreed first attempt was a mild hybrid and was a lousy one, hence its cancellation. The new more advanced dual mode hybrid is far cry much improved hybrid solution. Yea, lots of marketing hype but I guess we'll see.

    Besides Time there's quite a bit of other just published articles on green autos from other magazines. Kiplinger Finance magazine is one, there are others.
  • Gm has an incredible new diesel coming out soon. Only 4.5 liters, quiet, clean and to quote,

    "The premium V-8 diesel engine is expected to deliver class-leading refinement, horsepower and torque and fulfill multiple vehicle applications with ratings in excess of 310 horsepower and 520 lb-ft of torque."

    30 MPG in a two wheel drive pick up is projected.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/15/gm-announces-clean-diesel-v8-for-pickups-and-- the-hummer-h2/
  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    "Gm has an incredible new diesel coming out soon. Only 4.5 liters, quiet, clean and to quote,"

    Nice!! Audi is doing the something for their Q7 SUV Diesel V6, similar to the current Mercedes GL350. It was one of the options I was looking at but it seems Audi is pushing out this vehicle till sometime next year. :mad: Besides, Audi has some of the best lease rates in the auto industry.

    Definitely, that new small TDI diesel should work well with the new GM pickups and H2s. I like the torque ratings enough to tow some large loads. They should consider putting it into the Lambda platforms such the Enclave or Acadia. But Instead GM is working on Hybrids for those vehicles. Hence below.

    http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49339

    Now imagine, If GM can marry those two technologies The TDI Diesel and the Hybrid, now you are talking 40-50MPG. Slick.
  • What's the news, your link led to a blog with 100's of posts.

    Also I now hear that the introduction is delayed until the 1st Quarter of 2008? Originally it was supposed to be this quarter. Anyone know what caused the delay?
  • Pricing to start 40-45K - not the super sized premiums like the lexus is asking for.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    we'll see about that when the vehicles actually hit the lots.

    The Prius also came with a low MSRP but the DEALERS were gouging customers with large markups.
  • True but lets see how they gouge those of us with employee pricing or supplier pricing.. Im sure they will try
  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    "Also I now hear that the introduction is delayed until the 1st Quarter of 2008? Originally it was supposed to be this quarter. Anyone know what caused the delay? "

    I talked to a local dealer he said the same thing. I haven't heard anything official from GM. GM has a product brochure for the hybrid.

    As for the price, it sounds encouraging. This one is at the top of my list.
  • ryanbabryanbab Posts: 7,240
    I seen a truckload of the new Tahoe Hybrids on I465 (going north) in Indianapolis last week. I have been waiting on pricing and latest I seen is the hybrid wont be released until Dec but after seeing a truckload I am wondering where they were going.
  • pear69pear69 Posts: 20
    I haven't read all the posts on this new tahoe, but I want to say something about the mechanical aspect of an 8 cylinder motor that shuts off 2 or 4 cylinders at any point during it's running time or it's heat cycle.
    Any internal combustion engine creates a lot of heat. All the parts of an engine go through a heat cycle where they expand and contract. A part that is round at room temperature is not round at 300 degrees.
    The reason I say this, is this; the cylinder bore that the piston goes up and down in is supposed to be round;;it's machined that way. The way it stays round is this,,there is holes drilled around the round cylinder which pass coolant or antifreeze through, thus evenly cooling the round cylinder bore that the piston lives in.
    In the chevy v8 the cylinders are set up in two rows of four. If you shut off 2 or 4 of these cylinders these cylinders will become unround or oval shape because of the heat that will be transfored from the cylinders that are working and creating a lot of heat.
    If you think the intake gasket leak problem on all chevy tahoes was bad wait until you see entire motors failing. I will say it will take about 50,000 or 60,000 miles and you will see severe engine damage and catistrofic engine failure....This motor is destined for the discovery channels'show "engineering failures"
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Welcome to the Forum,
    I think your analysis has some good theory behind it. This is not a new way of trying to save gas. Honda has a V6 in their Odyssey and not sure what else with VCM. I have not read of any early failures yet. I am a keep it simple kind of guy so I would probably not be interested in such an engine.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    " In the chevy v8 the cylinders are set up in two rows of four. If you shut off 2 or 4 of these cylinders these cylinders will become unround or oval shape because of the heat that will be transfored from the cylinders that are working and creating a lot of heat."

    I don't think this will be a problem. The cylinders deactivate and reactivate continuously. I suppose in theory if one was going down a VERY long slope the cylinders might shut down for a few minutes, but in general the problem most people have always had with variable cylinder usage is that they don't shut down frequently enough to really help MPG. The moment extra power is required, even momentarily, the cylinders come back on line.

    However, this marks the first use in hybrid applications, so maybe they will shut down more. But considering the heavy weight of the Tahoe, it is very likely that all cylinders will be active much of the time.

    Also, we don't know how Chevy programmed the engine. It may well be that it is not the SAME cylinders shutting down - they may alternate, which spreads the heat around.
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