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Chevy Tahoe/GMC Yukon Hybrid

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  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    Tesla just received approvals through the FEDs on their all electric vehicle. Tesla just went through a whole exercise on crash tests and other types of safety tests to insure that the vehicle was safe to be used on our roads. Apparently it is.

    Tesla uses Li-ion battery packs (Sanyo) with special cooling system to insure batteries do not over heat and builts in a highly rigid protective casing over the Li-ion batteries to insure no breaches occur in their cells.

    Tesla guarantees 100,000 mile operation on their Li-ion Batteries and the vehicle can travel 200 miles on single charge. This means 500 fully charge and discharge cycles. 500cycles x 200miles= 100000miles. Though the battery does not fail after 100K miles, it will start loosing it's performance (voltage and charge). Although, they have the ability implement some tricks or work arounds to extend the life and performance of the battery (patents).

    Li-ion for now seems to be the choice of auto battery for Hybrids or all electric cars in the near term future. Li-Polymer is another type of battery that could become a big player in autos if they can bring the costs down and have factories start to ship these in volume. Plus Li-polymer are safer.

    Glad to see GM, Toyota, Honda and others are moving towards a more higher performance batteries for their Hybrids or electric car. I'll be staying tuned.
  • bboozebbooze Posts: 34
    I guess the Hybrid is finally rolling out. I had inquiries into a few dealerships in my area and I've suddenly gotten calls from a few of them saying they are coming in.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,455
    Saw an ad in the local Cincinnati newspaper for a dealership having one for sale yesterday. Guess they're starting to hit the dealerships. No price mentioned. Just that the dealership had one for sale....supposedly the first one in the city.
  • Right now all dealerships have been given a monthly allotment of Hybrids. Each dealer has a demo unit and when a customer wishes to order, they order one from a pool so the customer can get the color and options they desire.
  • Do you know if indeed, the residuals are lower than that of a normal tahoe?
  • Follow-up test of Tahoe Hybrid

    19.3 mpg combined in a 2WD TaHybrid. Chevy advertises what, 21-22? For real-world driving that might be a highly inflated number. And the 4WD version will likely be 1mpg worse combined. 18mpg is nothing to write home about.

    They go on about what amazing thing has been accomplished here, and how the savings add up for larger hybrids, but it appears that the larger the hybrid, the less likely you are to recoup your losses.
  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    A clean diesel is the way to go for the larger trucks and SUVs then you mate them with a hybrid. That's the path GM should of taken. The TDI engine will see a appreciable improvement of fuel savings especially at the highway end. You'll probably see more diesel starting at the end of this year coming from the European auto manufactures.

    I am still awaiting for that concept plug-in all electric large SUV that can go 100MPG with a small diesel engine. So who's going to be first??
  • mikonmikon Posts: 7
    On 2/21/08, the Detroit Free Press Auto Review Column presented a GLOWING review of the new GM Cheverolet Tahoe Hybrid SUV. The test vehicle was identified as a 6,200 lb vehicle with 1,465 lb payload capacity and the ability to tow 6,200 lb. The full day driving test yielded a REPORTED 26.3 mpg and was praised to the heavens!!!! These numbers are pure BS (if you check out the real tests conducted by automotive web site evaluation teams). Of particular note, the reviewer did NOT provide his/her name!!!

    If you believe this unsigned, Detroit-originated propaganda, then how come the highly respected Edmunds.com equivalent vehicle only demonstrated 19.3 mpg overall for several thousand test miles? Per the new Edmunds video "2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid Followup Test" most of these miles were highway miles where GM claims 21-22 mpg. Is the Edmunds evaluation team credible? You bet! FYI, Edmunds.com won OVER HALF of the total awards for Automotive Web Sites for complete and accurate tests and reporting of automotive vehicles. The actual test results are less than either the city or highway mileage estimates published by GM. The mileage should fall somewhere between the two.

    Edmunds' reports over the past three years have also indicated that GM's claims for mileage are well in excess of actual delivered performance on the road. (Example, the gas-powered Chevy Silverado advertises 15/21 city highway, but only delivered 14.7 mpg overall in actual tests by Edmunds.)

    The extra cost for the Tahoe Hybrid is $9,000 (but is reduced to $6,900 after the IRS rebate). Approximately $450 yearly fuel cost savings is predicted over an equivalent non-hybrid Tahoe. After taxes, the real extra cost is $7,620, and the predicted break-even point over time is 17 years! The hybrid version is considerably more complex; hence, reliability factors and normal vehicle service life indicate one will NEVER recoup the extra cost for the hybrid. But you can claim you are "going green." There are no less than NINE badges on the vehicle screaming HYBRID. Whoo...hooo!

    OOPS! Don't forget the extra impact on global warning to produce the batteries, the two electric motors, and the more complex drive train required for the hybrid relative over the standard Tahoe system, to say nothing about the recycling of these extra parts. What a deal!
  • chadxchadx Posts: 153
    "Edmunds' reports over the past three years have also indicated that GM's claims for mileage are well in excess of actual delivered performance on the road. (Example, the gas-powered Chevy Silverado advertises 15/21 city highway, but only delivered 14.7 mpg overall in actual tests by Edmunds.) "

    One correction that is critical to your comments direction...
    GM does not perform the testing for the mileage numbers on the sticker (the same number they use in advertisements and other published numbers). The EPA performs those tests. Those ratings can not be changed by the manufactures. Many (like Toyota) have wanted to be able to change the numbers or wanted to publish more realistic numbers along side the EPA numbers. The EPA refused to allow this. The manufactures take a real beating over those numbers. They want them to be realistic. It was not only consumers, but the manufactures, that had a hand in the EPA changing the way mileage ratings are calculated for all 2008 and up vehicles to reflect a testing style that was more real-world with an outcome of more realistic mpg ratings.

    Manufactures do use the EPA numbers in their literature and advertisements (in a way, they are between a rock and a hard place there because if they used their own numbers, it woud confuse people on why they differ from the EPA ratings, etc.)

    So let's stop blaming the manufactures for the sticker or published mpg numbers. If you want to rake someone over the coals on this particular subject, you'll need to direct it to the EPA.

    I think most people realize the EPA mpg ratings (even the new 2008 ratings) are acquired during a controlled set of operating procedures and real-world numbers will be less. People usually don't drive with mileage in mind (note the number of peoople that pass you going 80 mph, don't time stoplights when possible, jackrabbit start, etc.) If they did, they would probably get a lot closer to the EPA ratings. Even under the old system, I usually got pretty close to the EPA ratings when I drove with mileage in mind. That never used to be very often, but these days, it's more and more, and it's amazing what kind of mileage ratings one can get with a change in driving style. (I'm getting 17city and 21 hwy with my '03 Avalanche which was rated at 15/18 on the sticker. I'm driving at elevation, which improves mileage, but even when I lived at sea level, I was getting 16/19 when driven with mileage in mind. Probably 14/17 when driven without mileage in mind).
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    After that long ramble, maybe summarizing your point would be a good idea.

    What's the break-even time of a set of 22" chrome spinners? How about a satellite radio system? OnStar? Leather seats? Third row seat? Power Liftgate? Heated mirrors?

    All those are merely "options" just like a hybrid option. And none of them EVER pay the buyer ONE PENNY back.

    At least with the hybrid option, you are keeping gas dollars in your pocket and you HAVE a "break-even" point to look forward to.
  • chadxchadx Posts: 153
    "After taxes, the real extra cost is $7,620, and the predicted break-even point over time is 17 years! The hybrid version is considerably more complex; hence, reliability factors and normal vehicle service life indicate one will NEVER recoup the extra cost for the hybrid. But you can claim you are "going green."

    I think you are missing the point of this hybrid. It is not only about saving money. Actually, no current hybrid is about saving money. At this point, you don't buy a hybrid as a strictly economical choice. If you are only concerned about payback, a hybrid isn't for you. They do, however, use way less gasoline than an equivalent non-hybrid, which is beneficial in so many ways. Plus, the current hybrids are stepping stones in bringing down cost, improving technology, and improving mileage even more. Maybe at some point, there will be a shorter payback and that train of thought will have it's place. It should continue to happen as technology improves and as gas prices continue to rise.

    You also seem to complain about the minimal mpg improvement. What most people don't consider is that from a percentage improvement, it is on par with the hybrid cars. On a vehicle that only gets 16mpg on average, and bumping that to 19mpg on average, you jumped almost 19%. For comparisons sake, a non-hybrid that gets 32mpg would have to jump to a little over 38mpg. (and, per both the EPA sticker ratings and edmunds real-world tests, the mileage improvements for the Tahoe hybrid are actually more than 19% improvement)

    Even more telling is how many gallons of gas one would save in a year.

    Even based on only 15,000 miles a year (many drive much more):
    16mpg = 937 gallons
    19mpg = 789 gallons
    Saved 148 gallons/year with a 19% improvement.

    32mpg= 469 gallons
    38mpg= 395 gallons
    Saved 74 gallons/year with a 19% improvement.

    So the 19% improvement in mileage avoided the use of 148 gallons when done on a poor mileage vehicle and the 19% improvement in mileage saved 74 gallons when done on a good mileage vehicle. So this goes back to a point many people have mentioned (but people seem to forget). We should be focusing hybrid technology on the worst of the worst gas guzzlers rather than the best of the best. There is more benefit. More gallons of gas saved per mile driven.
  • I have ine and it was prices 12,000 below the 68 you are suggesting
  • bboozebbooze Posts: 34
    I've been told by more than one dealer that pricing will be close to MSRP - i.e. about $55,500 for a Tahoe Hybrid 4x4 with Entertainment and sunroof.
  • galvanggalvang Posts: 156
    I've been told by more than one dealer that pricing will be close to MSRP - i.e. about $55,500 for a Tahoe Hybrid 4x4 with Entertainment and sunroof.

    Yea there are dealers that are selling Yukons at the starting selling price of MSRP. But there other dealers that are price gouging. Here's another Yukon Hybrid for about 60K.

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ncal_id=1974936&car_id=238818089&dealer_id- =606776&car_year=2008&num_records=25&model=YUKON&systime=&make2=&start_year=2008- &engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code=0&awsp=false&searc- h_type=new&distance=500&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=GMC&color=&keyw- ords_display=&page_location=findacar::ispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_so- rt=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=89523&advance- d=&end_year=2008&transmission=&doors=&car_year=2008&max_price=&cardist=500

    I am Still considering a Yukon Hybrid but for leasing. The banks just released thier numbers for residual values on a lease for a Yukon/hybrids. After 36 months @15k miles a year the residuals are at about 47% of MSRP. Thats pretty lousy.

    Audi Q7 lease for residual is 51% of MSRP with a very low money factor .00060 and with Audi capital reduction of MSRP adds up to great lease.
  • My Yukon Hybrid is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I've not seen the final figures on it yet, but it should come in just under $55K with the sunroof and DVD player.

    Does anyone know yet if they all have the big HYBRID sticker along the bottom of the doors?
  • bboozebbooze Posts: 34
    >

    Apparently they do. However I have talked to the dealer (have a Tahoe hybrid on order that should arrive any day) and have told him that I want those stickers removed. They have told me more than once that that will not be a problem, so you should be able to have them do that for you if you wish.

    I don't know why GM has to do that. There's something to be said for being "subtle".
  • beltonrbeltonr Posts: 1
    I just took delivery of my hybrid Tahoe. Haven't driven it enough to have many comments. I'm still trying to get everything set up and adjusted. It's really solid and quiet, though. I hope this forum develops into a helpful site to swap ideas and provide helpful suggestions, not just a bunch of whines. I don't intend to be one of the whiners.
  • I picked up my Yukon today!

    The 2WD with sunroof and DVD player was $53K...exactly what we priced it out as on the GM website.

    You can't hear the engine running and don't notice any shift from electric to gasoline. It handles beautifully!

    It has 9 badges or hybrid stickers on it. After we drive it a bit we may decide to take off the window Hybrid stickers or the long one on the doors. But, for now we plan to leave them on.
  • what did you pay? did you get the 4x4 or 4x2? how long did it take to receive from ordering date? I just looked at one and was impressed. I was originally looking at the lexus 400h but it was too small for my needs. the Tahoe looks great!
  • bboozebbooze Posts: 34
    I ordered mine way back in January and it was supposed to arrive last week but now I'm told that "it's on the train from texas and should be here this week."

    I'm quite anxious to get this thing. I'm going to have the stickers removed right away...I don't mind the other badging.
  • I paid sticker price which was $52,310 which included the sunroof and DVD player on the 4x2.
    We actually started talking to our dealer in early December and they placed the order at the end of January. So, it took about 4 weeks for delivery.

    We love it! The shift from electric to gasoline is not noticeable at all. And, it seems to handle a bit easier than my prior 2004 Yukon.

    I would love to hear if anyone else has received theirs yet?
  • Not sure where you are, but we are only a couple of hours out of Dallas and it took 2 days by truck once we knew it was on its way.
  • bboozebbooze Posts: 34
    It's interesting you say that because apparently mine is being shipped via rail from Texas. Guess I should've bought it in Texas so that I could get it quicker.

    On another note, it looks like most people are paying at or close to sticker, no? I hope so...then I don't feel so bad. :confuse:
  • The Yukon's are built in Arlington just next to Dallas. My understanding as mentioned earlier in this chain was that they only built 650 of the 2008 models making them somewhat scarce. But, will have full production for the 2009 models.

    We were told by our dealer that we had the first Yukon Hybrid sold. But, we weren't sure if it was nationwide or just in our region. Our Chevy dealer hasn't even received a demo model yet for the Tahoe.

    And, I was pleased that my dealer gave me sticker price and not add a premium due to limited availability.

    Good luck on getting yours!
  • bboozebbooze Posts: 34
    Mine finally arrived and I'm going to pick it up today. Can't wait!
  • CONGRATULATIONS!!

    Let me know what you think!
  • bboozebbooze Posts: 34
    I took delivery on my Tahoe Hybrid a week ago and am very pleased with it. This was in fact the first American car I've purchased since high school.

    Given that I'm going from a Passat to this Tahoe, it has taken some getting used to driving this beast. Upon taking delivery I had the dealer take off the "Hybrid" stickers that ran across the bottom of both doors as well as the stickers on the front and rear windows. I think that gives it a much cleaner look and really highlights the body style of the truck.

    As far as how it rides, it is very comfortable. Being the first hybrid I've ever driven, I can only tell when I'm in hybrid mode and when the engine is running due to the sound, because it sort of feels like you're driving an electric golf car when you're in hybrid mode. Very quiet but a little "whirr" as the hybrid kicks in. The transition from hybrid to gas and back to hybrid is imperceptible. Also, at higher speeds, the transition from V4 to V8 as you are speeding along is totally smooth.

    My very early results have yielded about 18mpg driving in and around the Chicago area, which gives me a good mix of expressway and city driving. I think the mileage will improve a bit once the weather warms up here because the Tahoe seems to need to warm up (i.e. oil and such) before it will start using the hybrid mode; hybrid kicks in a lot quicker when I drive the Tahoe from my heated garage vs. after it has been sitting outside.

    The interior of the Tahoe is a lot better than what I was expecting. My aversion to buying American cars has always been the 'cheap' feel of the interior but Chevy did a nice job on this one. The seats are comfortable, the instrument panel is easy to read and uncluttered. Heat/air and radio controls are logical. The rear seats directly behind the driver are very roomy, but the third row of seats are basically useless if you ask me since there is zero legroom back there. I'm just taking those seats out for additional storage in the back. My wife has an Acura MDX from last year and that has a lot more bells & whistles than the Tahoe does inside. Stuff like pre-programmed seat positions, handsfree phone use. Also, I was surprised that the Tahoe lacks a six-disc CD changer, which the dealer said was due to space constraints from the navigation system. Somehow, other cars w/ navigation have been able to overcome this.

    All-in-all, I'm very happy with the purchase and will update the board with any other things I like or don't like about it.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    The '06 Highlander Hybrid is rated to tow 3500 lbs.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,030
    A reporter hopes to speak with current, former and prospective owners of the hybrid Yukon and hybrid Tahoe. If you own/ed one of these vehicles, or have considered buying or leasing one, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience no later than Thursday, March 20, 2008.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

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