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Is Lexus The Standard of the World?

rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
edited March 14 in Lexus
http://www.lexus.com/fcv/lx.html?s_ocid=30195

Guys, can you believe the "Gadgetology" Lexus, keeps bringing to our market. I think I just found my dream vehicle. One that I will probably not be able to afford, but it is "eye candy". I gotta show my wife this superb automobile.

Well Lexus, is probably the best and are probably the "Standard of the World"

That is the topic question. Is Lexus, being #1 for many years now the new "Standard of the World" ? ;)

Rocky
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Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,901
    It may be in the USA. The rest of the World hardly knows it exists. Lexus only has one real luxury model the LS460. It is nice, I will say that. Most reviews I have read say it does not handle as well as the competition from BMW & MB. I think the reliability sells it more than any other feature. I would never buy one expecting it to last like our 1990 LS400. Too expensive to maintain all the gadgets.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Where is the LX 570 going to be made and how much ?

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,901
    I think all top end Lexi are built in Japan. I think the build the cheapo RX, ES and GS in NA.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I assumed they would build this one in San Antonio ?

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,901
    Not a chance. They only build their halo vehicles in Japan. The LX470 and new someday LX570 are their show vehicles. They would not trust US to assemble them. The only reason they are assembling the Tundra in TX is to tap that big truck market.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I see.....The LX570 like the LS460 are fine automobiles. So fine I want one now-grin That is a unrealistic want as I'm sure this baby will top out in the $70's :sick:

    I know I have expensive taste but the "Gadgetology" is useful and yes they are buildng fine cars. As far as being better than BMW or Mercedes ???? I would take a Lexus, over a Bimmer or Merc. ;)

    Rocky
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    The LX470 still has a Solid Rear axle. I mean come on move into the 21st century and design a heavy Duty IRS set up.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    a heavy duty IRS? No such thing! There's a reason non-streetified Jeeps run on solid axles. :-)

    Rocky, Caddy ads of the 50s notwithstanding, I think the standard of the world has been and still is Mercedes. Yes, the Chrysler thing dragged them down a decade ago and they had some bad years, but they still make the fastest street-legal car from a volume carmaker don't they? Not to mention I think they have by far the most prestige, and such a diverse line-up that Lexus has tried to emulate them for years.

    I am all for the Lexus line as a profit-maker for Toyota, and I think Lexi are very good vehicles, but they can't do sporty to save their lives, while MB covers both sides of the spectrum in every class.

    BTW, I know that Lexus is repeatedly number 1 in things like sales experience and reliability, build quality, etc, on the JD Power lists. Is that what you were referring to with the #1 remark? There are certainly other areas where Lexus does not traditionally rise to #1.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • john500john500 Posts: 409
    I agree with the comments made by gagrice in post 2. Lexus is a "poor man's" car (i.e. reliability is the primary selling point with good handling and performance) and in no way the standard for the world. True automobile enthusiasts still run with BMW for performance, handling and style.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    a heavy duty IRS? No such thing! There's a reason non-streetified Jeeps run on solid axles.

    Ford, Nissan and then Land Rover would disagree. The Range rover has been using a HD IRS setup that can tow almost 8,000 lbs for four years with no problems. Ford has been using IRS on the expedition for a while now and Nissan does it on a couple of their SUVs too.

    There are only three places left where a Solid axle out does a Independent set up.

    1. Hard Core rock crawling. By hard core I mean the custom Tub chassis rock buggies.

    2. Hard Core drag racing when the cars are doing sub 10 second passes in the quarter. The imports proved back in the 90s with Supras, RX-7s and 300ZXs what IRS setups could handle sub 10 second passes but from a safety stand point solid axles are better.

    3. Really heavy duty hauling or towing that full size pick up trucks do. A solid axle is just cheaper to engineer for that kind of work which makes more sense in the highly competive light pick up market. Also for goose neck trailers a Solid axle is a must for many reasons.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    BTW, I know that Lexus is repeatedly number 1 in things like sales experience and reliability, build quality, etc, on the JD Power lists. Is that what you were referring to with the #1 remark? There are certainly other areas where Lexus does not traditionally rise to #1.

    Yes all factors inluded. I think sales volume, reliability, build quality, performance, are all important factors.

    I think one can make a strong case for Lexus. Sporting ? Well check out the IS 350 and IS 500. The GS, is pretty sporting. ;)

    Mercedes, BMW, are both great automobiles but from a reliability and build quality stand point they have let's say some "grey area's" :blush:

    -Rocky
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Dude! Lexus is good at making cars that go very fast in a straight line, like the IS350 and the GS. They also make very competent and luxurious cars. But when it comes to performance they are usually roundly beaten by BMW and edged by Mercedes. I use slalom testing as my standard of reference there, but when the mags test them on road courses the results are usually the same.

    Me, I have driven the 325i, the C230, and the IS250, all sticks, and I would take the Lexus for its unique set of qualities (best stick shift of the lot, and my favorite interior among the three, the Germans are so DRAB about everything, not to mention that Toyota reliability and resale). But I understand why the press and the enthusiasts still rank the MB and BMW more highly.

    Perhaps in order to continue this discussion, you should really spell out what you consider the criteria to be for the one automaker called the "standard of the world".

    (Then we will all go around the mulberry tree debating every aspect of it for the next 200 posts! :-P And if I may toss my $0.02 into the discussion early, I don't think sales volume should be among the criteria. "Standard of the world" says to me the one that all other carmakers look to, if not for aspiration then at least for inspiration)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,901
    From the looks of the latest from Lexus I would say they still have spies in the design rooms at Mercedes. They started out trying to copy MB and from the looks of the latest offerings are sticking with that winning program. Japanese car makers have NEVER been leaders in design.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well how can you not include sales volume in the discussion to rate Lexus ??? If you rate every detail on a bar of 1-10 like some car magazines do then Lexus, is clearly the winner. Handling you'd give BMW a 10, Mercedes a 9 and Lexus an 8. Straightline Performance, Ride Comfort, build quality, reliability, exterior quality, interior quality, exterior styling, interior design, fit and finish, "gadgetology", price, my god we could go on and on if we nit picked every detail and the more we examined the details the further Lexus, would rank above Mercedes and BMW as probably the new Standard of the World. ;)

    Just my $0.02.....only 199 more posts to go !!! :P :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well let's just say they have made a better Mercedes, as the new Merc's have gotten a litte ugly. The RX 330 is the only one that needs a new look outside of that every Lexus, is "eye candy" when it comes to design. ;)

    Rocky
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,901
    In my eyes all but the LS460 is less than good looking. They are just rebadged Toyotas. The LS is the only real luxury car in the lineup. You are right about the RX. It looks like a cheap imitation Faberge egg rolling down the street. UGLY to the max. They sell a ton of them to suburbanites with more credit than brains.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    I would say the GS is a real luxury car too - boy is it nice to drive. Unfortunately, Lexus pretends it's sporty, and alas it is not.

    Lexus has too many rebadged Toyotas these days, what with the heavy preponderance of trucks and SUVs. I would like to see some of them go bye-bye, although the ES and the RX would probably need to stay as the sales foundation of the brand. As for RX, it would have been nice if Toyota had evolved the styling for the current model. It has had almost the same look for too long. And as for ES, don't forget that Toyota has already announced that the current model is the last rebadged Camry for this model line - the 2010 ES will be a RWD midsize sedan with no sharing with Toyota-badged cars. I think as long as this change doesn't cause the price to rise too much, this will be a good and long overdue move for Lexus.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    ROTFFLMAO !!!! Dare I ask just what in the heck a Faberge egg is ? :surprise: :blush:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    What model does the GS and IS share with the Toyota brand ?

    The new LX 570 is a bad-[non-permissible content removed] SUV. It shares it's platform with the new Tundra, right ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    The LX 570, is going to hit $80K. :surprise: It is not $20K better then the Escalade. ;) I can't wait for the Hyundai LX 570 version that will be priced in the mid-high $40K range. ;)

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    the 2010 ES will be a RWD midsize sedan with no sharing with Toyota-badged cars.

    Really? A Lexusized Mark X maybe?
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Hyundai Terracan. Just throw a luxy interior in it and go.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Holy Smokes, bumpy you ain't a kiddin' pal. That would make a great LX 570. How do you know about all these various cars. You amaze the heck out of me. ;)

    Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Might as well make the title "Lexus vs. Cadillac, which one is the standard of the world?"

    Anyway, back onto topic. I think Lexus is the standard of the world at least in the reliability/quality category. It is true that a purest would still lust after BMW or Infiniti but one can't deny that Lexus has them all beat when it comes to reliability and quality.

    It is not Lexus' intention to make cars that compete with BMW. Lexus more or less took the "MB approach" which is to find the perfect balance between performance and luxury. It is always Lexus' design philosophy that being a luxury car maker they would NOT sacrifice luxury for extreme performance. One can see that philosophy applied too all of its sedan offerings. I would use the IS as an example, if Lexus really want to match the 3er in performance all they have to do is stiff-up the suspension (not hard) and drop a manual tranny to IS350. That'll pretty much shut those so-called enthusiasts up since it already has a kick-a** engine. However, to do that, Lexus will be forced to go against their design philosophy so at the end of day, they decided to make a Lexus IS instead of a Lexus 3-series-wanna-be.

    Say all you can about Lexus being soft and non-sporty but after a weekend in a rental 350Z I was so glad to be back in my soft IS350.

    It might be true to say that Lexus doesn't have a presence in other parts of the world besides NA 5 years ago but that's not the case anymore. Right now as we speak, Lexus is on sell in the following countries and I could miss a few:

    USA
    Canada
    Japan
    China
    Taiwan
    Korea
    Europe (I know this is NOT a country but that only solidifies my point)

    Also worth noting, in both USA and Taiwan, Lexus is the number one selling luxury brand. That's pretty amazing if you ask me given that its relatively short history when comparing to BMW, MB and even Cadillac.

    By the way, the only rebadged Toyota in the Lexus line are the ES, GX and LX. Someone would argue that RX is a rebadged Highlander but the truth is that Highlander is a rebadged RX. To back up my statement let's think back which vehicle has paved the way for all the current cross-over craze? The answer is the original RX300, I rest my case. The only entry that I think is cheapening the Lexus brand is the ES350 due to its FWD setup and Camry blood-line. However, it is the best selling Lexus sedan so you can't really fault Lexus to give what the customers want.
  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Posts: 310
    Any chance you have the sport package on your IS? Never seen one on the lot & not even shown as available in my area on the website. Haven't even found a decent review versus the non-sport ones.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Nope, don't have the sports package. Good luck finding it anywhere besides California. You can, however, ask the dealer to special order one for you. You can check out the IS forums for more information.

    Lexus IS
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    The GS and IS are two of the three models that don't share with Toyotas. The LX has been and will remain a rebadged and further luxed-up Toyota Land Cruiser, and much to my surprise, it appears that Toyota might continue the Land Cruiser line under the Toyota badge after next year.

    They will both share a platform with the new Tundra, yes.

    bumpy: I think you're onto something with the Mark X, I was already kinda thinking that was what it would be when it gets here.

    As far as louiswei's remarks that Lexus is trying to tread the middle ground, I think sure, that's what it is trying to do. MB is the other one trying to tread that middle ground, and I think many would argue that MB does a better job.

    I would love to see the results of a customer survey as to which they more aspire to own. I bet MB would win the day on that score. But certainly on sales numbers, reliability, etc, Lexus is tops.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • I had a Lexus IS 300 for nearly seven years (130K Miles). Even till the end that car was a machine that ran well. There were hardly any problems with the IS 300,except for the cosmetics which I really abused.

    I can't say that I ran the Lexus at 10/10 like a racecar driver but I did bottom the car more than a few times. My cousin was so astounded by how well the Lexus stood up to all the wear and tear heaped upon that he ended up getting a Lexus IS 350 himself,after his 328 was on the verge mechanical failure. He me told that his BMer would never last a month in my hands.

    Lexus makes a wonderful car that stand up to immense consumer use. In my case I felt that the IS 300 really stood up to the test of time. Even after I traded in the Lexus was in great mechanical condition.

    In the time that I had the IS 300 exhibited superb handling and reliability. There was nothing more amazing than driving the IS 300 through sweeping high speed interchanges and blowing by Camaros and Porsches. I can't imagine what those drivers were thinking when my IS flew by their "sports cars".

    Of course I have a new Lexus GS 350, its a great car nowand I image that it will also hold up quite well.
    Although I am concerned that the larger 18 inch tires will be far more expensive to replace.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,901
    blowing by Camaros and Porsches.

    People in Civics and Corollas speed by me all the time on the freeways. It only means they are more willing to risk a speeding ticket. You are in a dream world if you think the IS would out run or out handle a Porsche. He was probably thinking what I would be thinking when you blew past going way over the speed limit. Where's a cop when you need one.

    The IS300 was a blemish on the Lexus nameplate. Further tarnishing their image and making it harder to claim any part of a "Standard of the World".
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Hehe, a blemish on the Lexus nameplate? It exhibited most of the things Lexus is known for: reliability, value, good resale. It just skimped on the luxury goods, but some might say it compensated by being the most sporty Lexus of its day.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

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