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Geo Metro Engine Questions

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  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    Schematics show me that there is no link at all between the ECM and the tail light circuit. There is an idol up diode linked between the brake signal and ECM that speeds the idol up. But that is not going to blow a fuse, so forget that! The only link would be a short circuit!
    Test this and get back with me please: When dose Tail fuse blow out, with switch on or off? Also key on or off? What ever you have to do to blow that fuse; do that same procedure again; but this time with the (Light 1 Relay removed!)
  • heavyhookheavyhook Posts: 12
    edited January 2013
    We had a storm come thru last Thursday that created some damage to my house, I had to spend the weekend repairing. So I have not been able to work on the Geo since last Wednesday the 9th. This morning we got up to 1/2" off ice on everything which pretty much melted away during the day. I will try to get out and do the test you requested tomorrow.
    One thing I discovered is my Geo is a 93 not a 95 like I told you. Also the wiring diagrams I using from AllData show they are for a 93 Suzuki Swift. It actually shows the white wire from the tail fuse connecting thru C6 or C8 (hard to read which) going to pin A26 for TBI systems to the ECM. Also white wire from tail fuse goes thru C4 to the clock, radio, data link connector. C6 to dome light and C2 to ignition switch (key warning).
    I will test to see if the tail fuse plug is grounded with the key off, I'm sure it is if IG switch on? On the fuel pump relay I will add B+ to fuel pump terminal #2 and try to start and check for ground signal @ injector if still no start situation. I was able to run the fuel pump before by adding B+ signal to Main Relay fuel pump terminal #4 with relay activated. But I will check the voltage at terminal#2 and I will make a note of that and include in my next post tomorrow! One last thing I can find no Light 1 relay on my drawings. I think I need to find the same ones your using somewhere! Thanks Dennis
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    edited January 2013
    No problem! I will check in to the 93 model and let you know if I see anything; the wiring is a little more simplified. If your car has the federal emissions standard, the ECM interchanges with:
    FIREFLY 92-93 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl), Hatchback, base and LSI, MT
    METRO 92-93 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl), Hatchback, base and LSI, MT, Canada
    METRO 92-93 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl), Hatchback, base and LSI, MT
    Part Numbers 30010098, 3392060E30, 3392060E31 and 3392060E32
  • ZenDen, I'm sorry about getting the year wrong on my Geo. I was able to see the bottom of the ECM today while looking for any wire damage above the interior fuse panel. It is located above the interior fuse on the farthest left close to where the left fender is but behind the dash cover. My ECM is # 3392060E32. While checking the condition of when the tail fuse grounds out as you requested I found it was no longer shorted out. I checked to make sure all the connectors on the back of the inside fuse panel were connected securely but could find nothing that looked suspicious. I am really troubled by this. You also requested I test the fuel Injection and fuel pump relays and here are those results.
    Fuel Injection Relay
    Key on #1,#2,#4 =B+ and #3 negative
    Key off #1,#3,#4 =negative and #2=B+
    Fuel Pump Relay
    Key On #1,#2,#3=B+ and #4negative
    Key Off#1,#2,#3,#4 negative
    Tail Fuse has B+ key on or Key off
    Fuel pump relay #4 does not get B+ when key is turned on for first 2 seconds or any other time that I have found. When I apply B+ to #4 fuel pump runs until B+ is removed. I have not tried to start with pump running continuously with B+ added to #4. Is this ok? No problem with fuel pump running all the time?
    I tried to start the engine after no blown fuses existed by using a starter jumper button attached to starter solenoid and placed about 20 cc's gas in throttle body but engine still did not try to fire up. I used the starter button so could be under hood to observe things while cranking.
    I did not get any signal at TBI injector wires! Also I installed a fuse in the MIL fuse socket after no blown fuses but no extra light showed up on instrument panel.
    What do you think about the short in Tail fuse going away? Could it possible have something to do with left side combination switch that operates headlights, parking lights and turn signals?
    Thanks for your input!!!
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    edited January 2013
    Time to put my thinking cap on and its late at night. I just got your message Thursday 11:45PM Eastern time. I will look this over and get back with you ASAP; Good work!
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    Turn Key on and ground terminal #3 on the fuel pump relay; ( when grounding this terminal leave the relay in place) The car will most likely start because of bad pump relay, or bad ECM, or a bad connection between ECM and pump relay. It sounds like it could be a bad ECM but the car may still run fine when you trigger that pump relay to ground. If the pump runs but the engine still won’t start when you jump the pump relay by grounding its terminal #3; then check for injector signal again. If you have no injector signal or fuel pump signal or FI signal from ECM then it’s a good chance it will be bad ECM. I could understand 1 bad trigger wire coming out of it but not 3. If necessary, I can identify the trigger wires for you to test after your finished this test. Dennis
    PS:I’m not sure about that tail light short circuit at this time with out looking deeper into the schematics.
  • Grounded terminal #3 on the fuel pump relay as requested. The fuel pump was running but no sign of it trying to fire up. I even primed the throttle body body with 20cc's of gas but not even a burp. I rechecked The signals at the injector with the key on and off. I'm not really sure if I am checking the right wires . The plug in connector that appears to power the TBI injector connects on the side of the throttle body that faces the passenger side front tire. This connector has two wires one Yellow and one Yellow/black. Key off both are grounded ,with key on yellow/black wire grounded and Yellow is B+. I fell like I am dropping the ball here some where. I cannot find the right wiring diagram in what I have for TBI system only FPI system. Coils hot, I verified fuel is reaching the throttle body. But were getting no spark and It doesn't seem like the injector is opening during cranking to allow the fuel thats needed.
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    You are checking the right wires; the yellow one is power from relay; the yellow black from ECM. I made my email address public for this forum, but for some reason it can not be viewed by other members. I would like you to contact me at dennybam@hotmail.com I will send to you the schematic that you need. Dennis
    PS: I’m leaving town very soon, and may not come home till spring! Email me ASAP
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    Alldata has that info, it is sometimes hard to find. This is the way in to find it!!!! Under Diagnosis and Repair/ (on the right, click) Power train Management/ (then on the left, click) Electrical diagrams then/ Electric Power train control module.
  • chicorybreathchicorybreath Posts: 1
    edited January 2013
    hi - i recently came into the possession of my friend's treasured, well-maintained '92 Geo Metro. i am the third owner and not terribly familiar with its behavior previously. i know he drove it from New Orleans to Seattle and back, but recently it was being used as a daily driver just around town.
    it started overheating and my friend discovered the fan was not always turning on when the engine heated up. he would stop and fiddle with the connection to get it going again. we also assumed that there might be something wrong with the coolant intake/circulation. turns out the head gasket needs to be replaced.
    my query to those of you who may be in the know is, can you recommend a mechanic who wouldn't laugh at the prospect of fixing this little car? i found a play by play instructions, but it seems like a solid amount of time is needed to devote to resolving this issue. i don't have said time, but really enjoy the car and want to see it moving again.
    i took it to a mechanic locally who told me i should just donate it b/c the cost to repair it would be over $1800.
    i would love to know if anyone in this forum has any suggestions or knows of a mechanic in New Orleans/South Louisiana who wouldn't see working on this little guy as a lost cause.
    thank you!
  • zendenzenden Posts: 62
    $1800. is way to much for that job. I am sure that you can find a back yard mechanic that can take the head off in 2 hours or less, send the head out to the machine shop rebuild it for $300. and bolt it back on in 2.5 hours or less. With parts labor and machine work it can be done for. $850. It is the easiest and the least expensive car to fix. The engine only weighs 125 lbs. it is like working on a lawn mower; that is why it is inexpensive. I know I am a mechanic. My first 94 Metro I bought on a Thursday, pulled the engine out with my bare hands Friday, put it on the bench, overhauled it over the weekend and was back on the road Monday. Yes I may be bragging a little bet, but the point is; that with this info you could get resourceful, ask around. If necessary pull it your self and send it out. Maybe there is a school around that work on cars for next to nothing. I would suggest mill the head, lap the valves, and replace any exhaust valves if needed. Also repair the primary problem that caused the overheating. As I said these cars are easy to work on an worth the up keep. Warning! Many GEO’s are known to have rust on the left front driver’s side frame rail; the part of the rail where the lower control arm bolts into; this is sometimes caused from sea mist and road salt mostly Many times there is a hole there the size of a soft ball, it is very expensive and time consuming to fix. If there is a small hole there treat it!, fix the engine and drive it for many years to come. If the hole is large think twice before putting much cash into that car. The rust holes only happen on that side of the frame because the passenger side gets a slight mist of oil from over the years, in turn it is protected from corrosion.
  • Keep in mind when paying a mechanic, I just did my head gasket last week - FOR $40 in parts! (I should have replaced the timing belt too, which would have added a few more dollars) My head did not need rebuilt, they often do, I paid $150 the last time I did. I hope you have the time to shop, and do not have to pay through the nose...
  • Friends - I'm living in Brazil, and own a Suzuki Swift Geo Metro 1995 manufactured in Canada - 1.3 cc engine and 4 cylinders, it is so difficult to find rocker arm (4 rocker) - in Brazil did not care much these vehicles only swift 1.0 - 3 cylinders and need the help of you to buy this 4 rocker - they are roller-if you have to send the photo to checks - help me please carefully - jaquiel@ig.com.br :cry:
  • 2000 chevy metro 4cylunder 5 speed

    Runs great, randomly loses power, sputters and pops out of the exhaust then dies. Sometimes starts back up some times wont untill it sits. I have replaced the following with no help

    Fuel pump and sock cleaned tank
    Plugs wires and coil packs
    Cam and crank sensors
    Timing belt and sprockets

    Any ideas
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808

    @handy_man1991 said: 2000 chevy metro 4cylunder 5 speed
    Runs great, randomly loses power, sputters and pops out of the exhaust then dies. Sometimes starts back up some times wont untill it sits. I have replaced the following with no help
    Fuel pump and sock cleaned tank Plugs wires and coil packs Cam and crank sensors Timing belt and sprockets
    Any ideas

    Perhaps something blocking/stuck in fuel line? I had a fuel filter element break up on a vehicle once, and a small piece of filter element got into the fuel line and I had the same type of behavior. For no reason, it would sputter and die randomly. Sometimes revving the engine would help keep it from stalling out. Turned out the small piece in the line was stuck at a bend in the fuel line and was acting like a butterfly valve. it would turn and block off the fuel flow and the engine would lose power or die. Once it turned back from relief of the fuel pressure, the engine would start again. Cleaning out the fuel line solved the problem.

    And welcome to the forums! Always nice to see/meet the new faces. If you have any questions about the forums or Edmunds, don't hesitate to ask! That's what we're here for as moderators

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • The car is not eqiupped with a fuel filter. It has a fuel sock on the pump. I replaced it when I did the pump. The old pump was original and the sock on it was complete. Good idea tho thank you
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808

    @handy_man1991 said: The car is not eqiupped with a fuel filter. It has a fuel sock on the pump. I replaced it when I did the pump. The old pump was original and the sock on it was complete. Good idea tho thank you

    It was just that you didn't mention the fuel line, so...

    Hope it stays simple for you!

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • Any one else have any ideas
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