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Edmunds, KBB, NADA pros and cons

kevin8886kevin8886 Posts: 1
Hi,

My first post here. I am starting my used car buying research on the Honda CR-V with the EX Trim (Years 2003-2006). I looked at both the Edmunds and Kelley Blue Book estimated dealer costs. Edmunds prices are substantially less than Kelly, maybe 20% or so. Any particular reason?

Thanks,
Kevin
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Comments

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,902
    I thought we already had a discussion about this but I don't see it. Short answer is that Kelley is a dealer service and Edmunds exists for the consumer.

    These links should get you started:

    What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?

    Edmunds.com Edges out Kelley Blue Book in Online Race for Car Buyers


    If you don't believe any of the books, you can cross-check prices in the Real-World Trade-In Values discussion or any of the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences discussions.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    I would make copies of both when comparing and looking. When your at a dealer they like to use the Kelly and rate it a Excellent when selling off the lot and a fair for a trade in. You could also use the NADA I would say that the truth is some where between them.

    Good Luck
    MNF
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    unfortunately used car pricing is not a science - there are too many variables for any of the guides to get it right all the time. there are times when they come closer to others, but the best way to get an idea of numbers is an auction report. a dealer's thought process is that if they can buy the car for $xx,xxx at the auction, they aren't going to pay you more for the same car. those auctions pretty much set the prices that dealers use.

    a good way to get an idea of what that is is to visit the real world trade in values forum - volvomax has stepped up to the plate to provide those values to members here for free.

    as long as you remember that edmunds, kbb, nada, etc are just guides, you'll be fine. do as much research as possible, and get a wide variety of numbers from various sources - and eventually you'll see where a car should be valued at based on that information.

    -thene :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,915
    Do not recognize Edmunds when using values to determine if they are going to make loans.

    They look at KBB and NADA.
  • esteezeesteeze Posts: 102
    I'm trying to private party sell my 03 Honda CR-V, and I'm finding that the Edmunds value is about $500 more than the comparable KBB value.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    I'd take the Edmunds value and print it out. Let the buyer think he is getting a better value(when price lowered), which he may.
  • esteezeesteeze Posts: 102
    I'd take the Edmunds value and print it out. Let the buyer think he is getting a better value(when price lowered), which he may.

    Good idea.
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    if a dealer did that, consumers would be up in arms! :P

    (wait, they do, and they are!)

    but its ok for a private seller to show the higher value in an effort to make the buyer perceive he is getting a better deal...

    interesting... ;)

    -thene :blush:
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    I'm starting to sound like a dealer aren't I?

    Well, it's off to psychotherapy for me! :cry:
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    :D :D :D

    you're funny jip! ;)

    -thene :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,915
    You should do what our customers do.

    Scour the various sites that show used car values and pick the one that is the highest.

    Oh, and be sure to rate your car in "excellent" condition!

    :) :) :)
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 6,807
    "...Oh and be sure to rate your car in "excellent" condition..."

    But my car IS in excellent condition... Except maybe for that rust spot on the door, oh yea and there's that spot where Fido did his business on the back seat. And the engine makes this funny sound but only when it's running but you don't notice it because of all the blue smoke...yep, pretty near perfect.

    Say Isell, can you give me $2000 over book for it on a below invoice deal? And how about some free floor mats? ;)

    2009 PT Cruiser, 2008 Eclipse, 1995 Mark VIII, 1988 GMC Van

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,915
    Sounds like a deal it me!
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    Now Now that goes both ways isellhondas a lot of dealerships ( including Honda) when trading in use FAIR to Good then re stamp it excellent when they resell it :blush: would you not agree ??.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,915
    Well, after a four hour detail to get the filthy, smelly interior clean and we pay the dent guy a lot of money to straighten it out and we spend another 1200.00 in the shop fixing things and taking care of deferred maintenance, yeah, the condition is going to improve!

    So, yeah, I agree!
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    You have never seen one of my vehicles friends and family say i am obsessed with my vehicles. I park in open end spots or far away (no dents) wash and wax it more in a month than most people do in a year. I have all my mantaince records printed with me . I always go by once and see what they would do on a trade in ( After I have a set sell price) with four times fair once good with only one trade in ( Honda Dealer) . I will agree with you that most people think there cars are in better shape than they really are and will clean it just before trade in. You can always tell that it was a freshened clean and not done during the life of ownership.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,915
    You are the exception.

    I have taken in trades that were so filthy inside and smelled so bad I didn't even want to go park them afterwards.
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    Now Now that goes both ways isellhondas a lot of dealerships ( including Honda) when trading in use FAIR to Good then re stamp it excellent when they resell it would you not agree ??.

    Of course we do, hell sometimes higher then excellent. That is the nature of the business, buy low and sell high.

    A thing we have a hard time getting across to sales people is that it makes no difference what we have in a car, what matters is what we can sell it for. If are last 5 2004 Zorchs brought $9500 retail and there is still a demand for then then it does not matter if we have $7500 or $5500 in the car, it should still sell around the $9500 mark.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Exactly never sell from the bottom sell from the top.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,915
    When they can't figure out what we have invested in a used car. They want to base their offer on that like they try to do with new cars.

    It really doesn't matter. Used cars sell for what the market dictates.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Used cars sell for what the market dictates.

    The problem is the dealer knows what the market is dictating and I, as a used car shopper, have no idea. I have been told by sales person that a car on a new car dealer's lot with a price tag of $7995 can be bought for $3000. I've been told that a car on a used car dealer's lot with a $3300 price tag can only go down a couple hundred.

    For a given car, Edmunds will give a dealer price of $1600 average, $2300 clean. Then go to KBB and it's $2850 for private party price in fair condition and $3285 for good condition.

    New cars are much easier to figure out and new is also much easier because one can get competing bids to sell you the exact same car.
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    Until I started hanging out here at Edmond's I had no idea how much the market fluctuates depending on what part of the country you are in.

    We encourage people to go to KBB and check the trade in value of there vehicle prior to coming to the dealership. Average KBB is within $500 one way or the other 90% of the time in my area for the average trade in we receive. it is wrong as rain sometimes, usually with higher end or newer stuff. But it is usually real close on the average 50K mile car.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    I notice that Fitzmall has you use KBB. I have never purchased from them, so I really don't know if they honor that trade-in value or near that amount....as they usually sell BELOW invoice on most of their vehicles.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    **.. Until I started hanging out here at Edmond's I had no idea how much the market fluctuates depending on what part of the country you are in. ..**



    Sorry Joel I just gotta ask,

    How could you "not know" a simple fact like that.? ... it ain't like Nashville is some buried little town off the map next to Fargo North Dakota .. you have one of the largest import auctions this side of the Mississippi -- and you see all types of trades there from Miami to Minnesota, what's up.?



    Terry :confuse:
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    No problem Terry. I don't work in the used car department. I work in Finance, all that I am concerned with is warranty penetration, GAP penetration, and what the car NADA's for because that is what the bank is going to base there advance on. What is going on 12 miles down the street at the auction is really no concern with me. It is hard enough keeping up with the 13 pages of incentives, and chasing stips all day to worry about what a 2005 Honda is bringing at the auction.

    Just like when I sold cars, could have cared less what the pay off on the trade was, what the UCM put in the trade, or what we were selling it for. Just give me a differences number and let me go to work, it was the managers job to put me on a number making money.

    I do know this, on the days my UCM goes to sell cars he always comes back saying they were not bringing crap today, on the day he goes to buy he always says they were higher then a cats back. Sounds to me like he needs to switch his days up. :D

    I promise ya i am in the car biz, ask jescue, he saw me in my work shirt and everything when he bought a truck from me a few weeks ago. :D
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    That's always the case.

    When I send stuff to the sale, nobody bites. But god forbid I gotta go after something, then everyone else in the lane has to have it.

    Of course, this is true of every single person with an access card, right Terry? ;)
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    **.. Just like when I sold cars, could have cared less what the pay off on the trade was, what the UCM put in the trade ..**

    So you're saying .. you're kinda like a cloistered Nun..?



    Terry. :shades:
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    It "seemed" like everytime I went north in the winter (how I loved that!) .... there would be these 2 brothers and their dad owned a tiny little Nissan dealership outside of Penn State, sold maybe 40 new, probably 30 used ..

    ...anywaaaay, I would be on the hunt for, let's say clean Altima's or Maxima's - and then, "they" would show up at the auction ... if the super cleans were doing $10,000 they would buy out of the book, I would see them roll $1,200/$1,500 over Xtra clean, it made me nuts - these were Nissans, not Lambo's ...

    I had to ask em' - WTF.? .. "where do you go with these things, you got customers in Cambodia, France, Pluto..?" ..l.o.l..

    Terry. :surprise:
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    You may be the first person in history to compare a car dealership to a Convent :D

    But it would make for great adds

    "Here at St Mary's Convent and used cars we promise a good truthful deal or we will go to hell" :D

    I just ignored the things I had no control over. I see average sales people get so caught up in the stuff they can't control. It effects them, the sale, and the gross.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Terry,

    Oh yeah.. I remember sloshing around Manheim in the snow... boy was that a joy. And then I had to drive back to North Jersey in the snow.. yuck. GM: "Why do you want to a Navigator as a Demo? You're in the Jaguar department, don't you want to drive a Jaguar?" to the GM: "Uhh, because I don't want to drive a Jag through a Blizzard in PA!"

    Well, I used to buy tons of Program Volvos from the closed sale.. ya know, same year leather/roof/alloy/cold weather S70s with 20k on em, still with the Hertz keychains..etc. I couldn't get enough of 'em, same model year as the new one on the showroom floor for 32+++ and I'd grab em for 20/21, ship em, run em through the shop and for 24,9 they'd sell like bandsaws at the prison commissary.

    This was also back in the days when GECAL was still around and strong.. we used to lease 15 of 'em a month, awesome switch car. Volvo used to do a $299 sign and drive but it was on the hubcap car with no leather, roof or CD. Through GECAL I could do the $299 sign and drive for 36 months, still make an OK deal and put the customer in the same year car with all the goodies.

    Now, I'd be able to buy em for 20/21 Unless these two nitwits from Virginia/DC area would show up. Now, we got 300 of these units running, look! One's Black, no, there's a Blue one! A Silver one!.. you know the deal but to the civilians.. 300 cars running, other than color, identical cars.. mileage +/- 600 or so. The first 20-30 cars would run and these two would bid against each other on the first 20-30 units, pay $23k per car, and then run off with their green and yellow copies all smug in having restocked their lots. I'd just sit back, fire up a smoke and watch em, chuckling to myself along with the other 25-30 Volvo dealers in the lane.

    Then the rest of us would buy em up for $20-21k.

    Then they'd take their 60-day units to the open sale and wonder why they could only get 20-21k for em... "But you guys pay $23k for these"

    Uhh, no. We don't, you do.
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