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Lets talk media

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Comments

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,682
    I agree with your summation.

    I will simply add that the next few months and next few years are going to be very, very interesting to watch because now Mr.Alan Mulally must make some hay from his millions for Fo-Mo-Co and not just his own pocketbook.

    GM needs to continue to win back(or start winning back)American car buyers and I see some decent new product arriving. Saturn's lineup has never looked better to me before...at least on the net. More good choices available because these carmakers need to put up or go home. It's playoff time!

    That's what I'm saying..let's keep brass-tacking for solid results. I am wondering if Toyota can stay on top and if people are gonna do more research before "family" buying or just buying what people tell them are good cars.

    Heck, I truly believe my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is a good car and Mitsubishi was talked about having to pull out of the American car market. There's a lot of Japanese pride being hammered in to those rigs. I am very, very impressed with my Lancer GTS.

    I agree Toyota is a celebrity and the media is impressed. Let's find some more info. and solid anchorages in this scene is all I'm saying. Cut through the fluff a tad more.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    and forums like these and around the internet help cut through the fluff . Here in these forums you find out about recalls, TSB's or problems that folks are having with their vehicles. The media cannot stop it from spreading like wildfire when a problem arises with a vehicle. Which is why you have to question Toyota's reliability numbers? I visit about 6 other forums and there are plenty of peeved off Toyota and Honda owners out here on the net. Which really makes me question how reliable they really are? I'm sure Toyota/Honda make good vehicles.. But are they really that much better than Ford/GM/Hyundia/Subaru/ or ???
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I bought an Accord 16 years ago. I had the car for 12 years (140,000 miles). The car was everything I could have wanted, and more. So when I was ready to buy a new car, I had an idea what car would be a good bet (another Accord). Say I would have bought a Ford product 16 years ago. Even if I thought it had been a good car, are any of the cars made by Ford 16 years ago still being made? The media (like me) has an idea what kind of car the Accord will be, before it hits the lots. They (the media) and I have no idea how good the new Fords are, because we have no good reputation to follow through the years. When I am betting my $25,000 on a car, I want a "sure thing" not a 60% chance. The "Media" has raved about domestic cars before, only to be disappointed later, and their readers let them know about it. Once bitten, twice shy, you might say.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,667
    There are two things that people always talk about when bashing Toyota and Honda: Engine sludge and Honda's automatic transmission problems. Problem with this is that there are so few of these "problems" that it does not really matter to most people. I THINK that is why the media has not picked up on these issues. Just my opinion, based on some real-life conversations, relationships, and experiences.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Problem with this is that there are so few of these "problems" that it does not really matter to most people"
    http://world.honda.com/news/2004/c040630.html

    500,000 Honda vehicles are a few??

    This is just one link.. there are more to older gen Honda products with automatic transmission issues.. Google it!
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,328
    That article is three yeas old? Got something more current?

    And I say that as someone who had one of those transmissions. It wasn't the first van I had transmissions on. That was a Ford and you would have thought I was a leper the way Ford treated me. Honda immediately agreed to the replacement and rented me a vehicle while it was in the shop. Total time - 2 days. Total expense - zero.

    When I look in the vans forums I see the Honda transmission one, but I also see a transmissions issue on every van. On most other vans there are dozens of other common defects.

    Can Honda make a mistake? You bet. Do they know hpw to treat a customer under such circumstances? Enough that when I replaced the van I bought another Ody.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,549
    I call the Big Three's image problem the "Bad Dog Syndrome".

    Basically it goes like this. You buy a dog and he bites every member of your family, sometimes REALLY badly. Even an occasional mauling.

    So..... You take him to a specialist, he goes away to Dog Rehab for 2-3 years and finally the trainers/experts bring him back and say: "He's perfectly fine now. Look, here are videos of him playing frisbee, and one of our staff took him home for two weeks and he didn't bite anybody".

    But you know, the Big Three is like that dog. He's very cute and we'd all like to pet him but many of us don't trust him enough to take him back in the house with the kids.

    When Toyota says "Okay we screwed up, but it's FIXED!", for some reason I believe that.

    When the Big Three says the exact same thing, I scrunch up my face and go...."yeah, rigggghhhhttttt....."

    Terrible, isn't it?

    MrShiftright
    Visiting Host

    MODERATOR

  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Big three, Bad dog, great analogy. I love it LOL. :D
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Honda Accords have had a few problems with head unit lights going out. Honda has said they will cover the head units "out of warranty". My head unit has not gone out, but it's nice to know that even if it does, it will not cost me anything to get a replacement. Would Ford do this? I think not. How does Honda retain so many repeat customers? By treating them right. ;) You can never please all the people, all the time, but at least Honda tries.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Value is something the public determines based on perception. The public decides Toyota's stock is worth a lot more than GM. If they didn't, the price would drop.

    The same holds true for cars.

    If Toyota's weren't worth a premium over their competitors, people wouldn't pay the premium. We may have different values though, which is why we don't all drive Camrys.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I would say at one time in America this was true. Tune into CNN, Fox, MSN, CBS etc and you will get a different bias from each journalist. It would be good if we got the news without bias. That does not seem to be what people want these days.

    I concur. People will hear what they want to hear. Some people think Consumer Reports is garbage until it reports something they agree with, then they change their minds.

    Fickle Public!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,549
    But that only works to a point....I doubt whether Fox or NPR or 60 Minutes could have broadcast "Yugos and Fiats are great cars!" and get more than a smattering of believers out of that.

    So it's "perception" but there's also reality, since people get to "test" their perception about a car, whereas they don't often get to "test" their perceptions about global warming or evolution or whether Politician X really is taking bribes or what is really happening in Mongolia.

    I think it's harder to sway public opinion about things they have a reasonable chance of testing themselves.

    This is why I believe that the Big Three is actually suffering from a consumer boycott, not a media conspiracy.

    MrShiftright
    Visiting Host

    MODERATOR

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You are correct sir! We are on the same page I believe.

    Someone once questioned my purchase of my car (a Honda Accord). I explained that a big reason I bought my car because of the interior quality. The person questioning said "it is all perception."

    If we can't "perceive" quality, what can we "do" to it to determine it exists in the produce we buy?

    To a point, perception IS reality.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,549
    I guess you could say that perception is the first step in forming reality. One's initial "perception" may turn out to be true or false, once one is in the driver's seat for a few months.

    It's possible that American and foreign cars start out with similar "perceptions" but from then on, it might diverge into satisfaction and for some, disappointment.

    So someone might legitimately say "Well, this Chevrolet has an interior just as nice as that Accord" and that perception would be correct...then later, it may be that the reality is that the nice interior means nothing if the car doesn't run right....so the "total" reality is a lot different than the "initial perception".

    This is one reason why I like longterm ownership reports rather than those "initial quality" surveys.

    People's perceptions are often incorrect.

    MrShiftright
    Visiting Host

    MODERATOR

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Fair enough, but often times, it is only the intitial impression/perception from a test drive that people find fault with/argue with on these forums, which isn't really fair when people have different ideas of "good."

    *steps off soapbox and closes subject.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The media should never be the decision maker for a car shopper, IMO. But a car reviewer, who has tested all of the sedans you are considering back-to-back can give you a lot of helpful hints on which car will most likely be what you are looking for. Things like equipment levels, safety ratings, reliability ratings, and high and low points of each model, give you an idea of what to look for during the test drive. Most test drives are less than 10 miles, so there is only so much you can determine from them. Personal experience is usually a big factor, with other factors added in, like word of mouth (friend, relatives, co-workers etc.) dealer location and service department. The more you know about a car, before the test drive, the better. I usually know more about the car I'm test driving than the salesperson does. :D
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I guess, lets not talk media.. Time to close up shop here?? :blush:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Nah, people just forget about new forums, especially when not enough people have visited it to "track" the discussion yet. I started the Midsize Pickups discussion, and it took awhile to get moving.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Go to MSN and check out the headline about Ford winning JD poweres awards and besting Toyota. Read this article and it basically shoots Ford down and pumps up Toyota.. :mad:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I read it on my lunch hour yesterday, at least I think it is the same one. It said what you already have though, so I'm confused at your response from it.

    It basically states that the Domestics have come a long way, and now have to re-earn the trust of the people they let down in previous years. Their image is bruised, like Hyundai's was.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    I think everyone values word of mouth ten-fold over any media information.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Consumer Affairs is a notorious "anti-hybrid "website.

    I have sent them several letters of complaint for their anti-hybrid bias, and they have never responded to me.

    I even filed a complaint using their handy-dandy complaint form but got no answers.

    Believe anything about hybrids on that website at your peril.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    This is why I believe that the Big Three is actually suffering from a consumer boycott, not a media conspiracy.

    I absolutley agree with your statement copied above. It is all about the consumer boycott, little to nothing to do with the media, let alone an insane notion of a conspiracy.

    I'm one of the boycotters after having owned a '95 Dodge, so I should know!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,549
    It wasn't necessarily a conscious boycott, as in "I'm not going to buy American!". Sometimes it was just more of a gut feeling about the car, the dealership and a sprinkling of bad reputation.

    Now the Big Three's troubles are a bit different. Basically they don't have the awful reliability and quality issues of 10-20 years ago....they've caught up...but now they are being hammered for having very uninteresting products (with some exceptions) and I have to agree with that as a valid criticism....all the jazz and juice and thunder seem to be coming from the imports, with just a few American standouts capable of capturing the buyers' attention....Corvette, Escalade, maybe Mustang...there's not much out there setting the American buyer's pants on fire, I'll tell you that.

    MODERATOR

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,898
    To be honest, I don't think there are many cars period, that are worth the money being asked for them. Nothing in the last 8 years has tugged at my wallet. So for me it makes little difference whether it is foreign or domestic nameplate. They are all pretty darned ugly. In 4 door sedans I would consider an "E" or "S" Mercedes, nothing else is close.

    Maybe it is because I do not watch TV or read the newspaper!
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "Now the Big Three's troubles are a bit different. Basically they don't have the awful reliability and quality issues of 10-20 years ago....they've caught up...but now they are being hammered for having very uninteresting products (with some exceptions) and I have to agree with that as a valid criticism....all the jazz and juice and thunder seem to be coming from the imports, with just a few American standouts capable of capturing the buyers' attention...."

    Your paragraph above is very true.

    "Corvette, Escalade, maybe Mustang...there's not much out there setting the American buyer's pants on fire, I'll tell you that."

    What about the Ford Fusion...thats selling ok. The 08 Caddy CTS may pull some customers in at Caddy dealers especially if it has a better interior in terms of quality of interior materials used than the current CTS. Ford has the F Series pick-up as well(even though its sales so far this year are really kinda down last year from this same point of last year.) What about the Dodge Charger? You forgot to mention the Pontiac Solstice as well. The Saturn Aura even though the exterior styling is not my thing I have sat and its a really nice car but its not selling well from what I hear on Edmunds because well just maybe GM didn;t put a 4cyl engine in it at a time when customers are heavily factoring in the amount of gas miledadge that their cars can get because of how high fuel prices are right now. What about the Saturn Outlook it got reviews from even Consumer Reports and Domestic Big 2 car fans always say who CR is anti-domestic Big 3(or big 2 at least) because I don;t hear Chrysler fans complaining about Cr really.

    The Domestics are getting killed in the mid-size and compact car area's where the imports are very dominant right now although as I said before the Fusion is selling ok it doesn't sell like the Altima, Camry, and Accord do. In the compact car sector the Domestics are getting killed by Civic and Corolla but so much by Sentra, Mazda 3, and Hyundai Elantra.

    Oh yeah the Caddy XLR convertible look good but why on earth did GM price it higher than their Lexus competitor(the SC.?) In my opinion at the time when GM decided to price the XLR higher than one of their competitors(the Lexus SC) GM got greedy because of the success of the CTS at that time. In my opinion, GM just upped the price for one of their Caddy models(XLR)way too soon in my opinion because the Caddy brand was just a couple years removed at the time from being known as an "older person's brand of car" if you will.
  • I was just on Dealtime.com and they had glowing reviews for edmunds.com, but they were all fake. If you check out the reviews for the different web sites, such as edmunds.com and cars.com you will find the same email addresses submitted with slightly different positive views. If edmunds.com is paying these guys money they've been had.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,158
    Looks like only one person reviewing Edmunds reviewed cars.com. I don't see any email addresses for the reviewers, just their profiles, so I'm not sure how you are figuring out that people share email addresses.

    I do see that most of the Edmunds reviews are in fact glowing while only about 4 of the 12 Cars.com reviews are 4 or 5 star.

    Cars.com is owned by a bunch of newspapers. The car reviews you see in the classified sections are often entirely positive, and are obviously written by PR people working for the auto manufacturers.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

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