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Taurus/Sable Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • wijocowijoco Posts: 462
    You don't put a different temperature thermostat in any fuel-injected computer controlled vehicle. Never, ever.
    That won't solve your pinging problem. It will create a bunch more problems, though. You likely have a lean condition created by a failure in some type of fuel metering device or a vacuum leak somewhere. I'm betting vacuum leak, based on your high idle and pinging problem.
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    I solved the high idle problem, throttle body gasket was broken and upper intake sucking unmetered air into system, after $6, it is idling like silk.
    I disagree with your comments about lower temp
    t-stats. The symptoms you talk occurs only with 160 degree and below t-stats, cause they create stuck open thermostat effect which triggers CEL and all other things. 180s are widely used by many Taurus and other make owners as part of performance modification b/c it slightly increases HP by keeping engine temperature lower.
    Thisnk about it this way, within 10 minutes coolant circulates the engine block 7 times under 195 degree t-stat. With 180 degree t-stat, the number of circulation becomes 10 times.
  • wijocowijoco Posts: 462
    "180s are widely used by many Taurus and other make owners as part of performance modification b/c it slightly increases HP by keeping engine temperature lower."

    A lot of people do a lot of dumb things. Buy a manual on fuel injection, read it, pay special attention to the parts on coolant temp sensors and engine controls. Considering the huge federal penalties for CAFE violations, if the 180 degree thermostat is an improvement and makes an engine more efficient, why do the factories install 195 degree thermostats?

    "Thisnk about it this way, within 10 minutes coolant circulates the engine block 7 times under 195 degree t-stat. With 180 degree t-stat, the number of circulation becomes 10 times."

    Well, yes, more circulation cools the engine more (to a point). That doesn't prove how an engine programmed to run at around 192 will be more efficient at 180.
    I would debate this more, but I have to buy 1,000 shares in Texaco. Let me know when you install that thermostat so I'll know when to sell.
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    Thanks for your concerns; I am all aware of that cooling and emission concepts and theory. As an individual, I am doing my part to keep the environment clean more than many people. CAFE vialotions? Let the others who drive gas guzzler SUVs to go to McDonalds, worry about that.
    In this case, I can't talk for all the manufacturers but I can talk for Ford regarding why they don't use 180 degree t-stat.
    Even tough 12 Valve Ford Engine (OHV-aka Vulcan) is old technology; Ford puts it into many applications like Taurus, Mazda Trucks, and Ranger 3.0 trucks. Many of these vehicles suffer for engine ping. This is well established fact. Ford was forced to catch up with MPG and emission requirements that were enforced on Car manufacturers by Federal Government. Many manufacturers responded this by designing newer and more efficient engines. Ford, instead, continued to use Vulcan engine by performing some modifications. Using higher temperature t-stat (192-195) and modifying PCM parameters were several of them to create higher operating temperature to lower the emission and gas consumption. However, the Vulcan was not designed for this.

    Did you know that factory default PCM octane value is 93 and Ford overwrites this by 87 by flashing PCM to force the car recognize 87 octane. During the production, they forgot to do that for some amount of Tauruses and then later issued TSB to correct the value.Searc for it, you will see what I am talking. But engine was not happy about this 87 octane mods. This was another act of getting by from strict MPG and emission regulations for manufacturers.
    This is why almost every Vulcan engine pings. But, lets clear something, this is only related to pinging caused by higher combustion chamber temperature. There are other reasons for pinging like ignition related causes, high carbon in TB and upper-lower intakes etc.
    So, Ford resolved the federal requirement on paper and in theory but created potential engine related problems which they discovered by consumers and solely owned by consumers. In other words. Ford unloaded the responsibility of their own acts to consumers.

    This is why my case is an exception. For a car which runs perfect, lowering t-stat to gain HP, of course, will create a problem. So your argument, I don't think, applies to my case.

    PS: If I were you, I wouldn't take Corporate America's actions/moves (scientific /ethical/ financial / environmental etc.) granted. To me they are the biggest liars in every aspect. They lie to Government, they lie to consumers, they abuse people all over the world, they abuse environment etc. Therefore, coming with a statement like "... if the 180 degree thermostat is an improvement and makes an engine more efficient, why do the factories install 195 degree thermostats?" will not carry merit. Don't look logical or scientific fact behind of how Corporate America does manufacturing...
  • dako_tiandako_tian Posts: 298
    You are undoubtedly correct about corporate America. Unfortunately, the US (and any other) government is even worse about lying and certainly worse about manufacturing anything and is most horribly inefficient. Foreign manufacturers, with few if any exceptions, are far worse. They tend to work under less stringent government restrictions (our government does provide some benefits!), they use and abuse their workers, their environment, deliver the lowest acceptable quality their customers will tolerate, as well as cheating their distributors and suppliers whenever and however possible.

    Ah yes, "What about the Japanese?" you ask. They do stick together as a nation and as a people. However, try being different in any way in their culture. They have a saying, "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down." Heaven help you if you are not Japan Japanese or if you don't adhere to the societal norm.

    Yes, you are probably correct. But I cannot think of anywhere or any better system at the moment. Unfortunately, we achieve this admirable level by sucking up a far greater percentage of the world's resources than is seemly (we represent only about 5% of the world's population, afterall).

    We also share one trait with the Japanese: unless an American is involved, we could care less about you or your troubles. Try watching BBC news. You will find out to your probable amazement that their are a whole host of civil wars going on right now (one since 1984!). In fact, their is a whole other world of good and bad news happening that would come as news indeed to even the best educated set of us Americans. We truly are the current most selfish and arrogant nation on Earth. I am very sorry to say.

    Is there anyone better out there. Probably not. But, being able to claim "best hog in the pig sty" isn't saying much. :-(
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,640
    Gentlemen, let's stick to cars if we can. There are plenty of websites devoted to politics.

    thank you!

    Host
  • shamrock22shamrock22 Posts: 8
    My Taurus has been running very cold for several weeks. Gage reads low and there's little or no heat on cool mornings. The check Engine light is also on steady. I suspect a bad thermostat, where is it located? How difficult to replace. I signed up for ALLDATA, but it was useless. None of the Chilton or Haynes manuals have up to date info.
    Thanks
  • dako_tiandako_tian Posts: 298
    Good point. I will adhere to the subject.

    Besides, my cars have never lied to me. Well, come to think of it, there was that one, sticky gauge.... ;-)
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Certainly sounds like a simple thermostat problem. I don't know where they are on current Tauri, but historically, the thermostat is located in a housing mounted on the engine on the end of the large upper hose that runs from the engine to the radiator. This is usually not a very expensive problem.

    Depending on exact age and mileage, you may still be under the 36K, 3year bumper to bumper warranty.
    If so, then the fix becomes very inexpensive.
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    You may have bad coolant temperature sensor too. You might want to get your code read first to determine what is wrong. Either of them (t-stat, CTS) requires to drain coolant down to certain level, change both of them. they are cheap parts. As I recal, CTS needs to be replaced every 2 years.
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    Does the Vulcan engine have any advantages at all other than it is a few hundred dollars cheaper?
    Apparantly there is no fuel economy savings, so why bother? They could just discontinue the Vulcan engine all together and make the Duratech standard which would simplify things and probably cut a lot of the extra cost of the Duractech.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Well, the Duratech was at one time a stand alone option, at least in my model year 2000 SES, and MSRP price adder was $695.

    Now it is available only on SES as part of an option package and is standard on SEL, so it is part of a package, so not so easy to determine the price adder of the engine alone.

    Lots of people are very happy with the performance of the Vulcan, so why should Ford drop it and raise the price of the entry level Taurus LX and SE models?

    Note the Duratech is used in more than just Taurus/Sable these days(a versuib us used in Escape, Mazda 6, Lincoln LS, Mazda MPV) and Ford may have production capacity limitations.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    I see I had a typo after it was too late to edit "a versuib us" should have been "a version is".

    Sorry, I wasn't trying to type Klingon!
  • shamrock22shamrock22 Posts: 8
    Thanks. I had a local AutoZone read the DTC, it was P0125. I guess since I am not getting heat it's not a CTS problem but a stuck thermostat. Can you point me to the Thermostat housing? I assume it's on the right side of the block.
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 540
    Locate your battery, left of your battery, you will see upper radiator hose, just follow it. And, do yourself a favor and use only Motorcraft part unless you go with lower temp. rating. Like I said, you need to drain some of your coolant down to level below t-stat so when you open the housing, coolant won't spray out.
  • tig2002tig2002 Posts: 81
    I am thinking about purchasing '00 Ford Taurus for my Dad. I liked the smooth ride of this car when I test drove it and the engine sounds very quite. I have seen and heard many good feedbacks about this car as well as bad ones. What is your (Taurus owners) opinion on the Taurus' reliability? Is there something particular that I need to pay attention on before I buy it? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
  • tig2002tig2002 Posts: 81
    Any suggestions, advice? I hope someone will respond.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    If you read back on the posts in this discussion and also the Taurus/Sable discussion in the Sedans section you should get a good idea.

    I have a 2000 SES with the Duratech engine and am very happy with it, though I am far from being at the high mileage point-I have 38K miles on it. Current Generation Tauri are very good solid sedans, and there do not seem to be any particular widespread problem areas as far as reliability issues.

    You should be able to pick up a 2000 model quite inexpensively as well. I would definitely recommend you look for one with the DOHC Duratech V-6 if possible, though the base Vulcan engine is adequate for most peoples needs, but provides less power with no particular increase in fuel efficiency.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Well, we have picked up the 92 Sable and I have done a few maintenance items, new tires and alignment, new wipers, changed air filter, changed oil and filter, checked all the other rubber parts, fluids, etc and all seems well.

    The brake rotors are apparently a little bit warped as there is some brake pulsation when coming from high speed stops, but not much, so we will let that go for now.

    One item I have noticed that is a bit puzzling for a car with this low mileage is there is about 1/4" or so of free play in the steering. Anyone got advice about what this could be and any fixes? Are there any steering rack adjustments or other adjustments that can be made?
  • wijocowijoco Posts: 462
    Unfortunately, no. Taurus steering racks develop play, and there's no remedy but to replace it with a new one. You can check the tie-rod joints, but if it's not in there, you'll have to live with it.
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