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Honda Odyssey vs. Hyundai Entourage vs. Kia Sedona vs. Toyota Sienna

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  • josm100josm100 Posts: 30
    staraight up Entourage limited listed at Carmax for $23,849 with 17 thousand miles, straight up limited MSRP $28,895. Carmax has a no haggle policy so their listing is the price, they also estimate the taxes and fees to be $1,950 taking the total price to $25,799. After rebates the limited is price at $27,095. I bought an SE for $24,024 OTD or $1446 below msrp even before factoring in taxes and such.

    With this in mind I feel the retained value advantage of the honda is been shown to be a farce, The Hyundai is holding it's own and diseveradely so. :)
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I wouldn't draw conclusions so fast; CarMax tends to mark up prices of their cars since they back it with a small warranty and a refund policy; and you pay a premium for the no-haggle experience.

    I see Tauruses that are listed at CarMax for $12-$13K that I could easily get at a regular new car dealership used for around $10-$11K. (In fact one of the dealers around here makes it their specialty to sell 06 Tauruses for $9995)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, CarMax does pretty much have a "buy low, sell high" business strategy.
  • josm100josm100 Posts: 30
    Good point, I would however point out that a similar Kia sedona (the same chasis)is selling for $17,000. This leads one to conclude that the retained value of the Hyundai will be better than the Sedona. The Sedona data is used by many websites such as consumer reports to predict the value of the Entourage. Time will tell, I plan on keeping mine for the lifetime of the warrenty (ten years) so I'm not that concerned. Thanks for the valid point though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sedona came out sooner, though. They also have a little less equipment (no luminescent gauges like you can get on the Entourage Limited, for instance).
  • josm100josm100 Posts: 30
    Hyundai entourage is named best in overal quality ...

    "DETROIT (AP) -- When it comes to car quality, think Korean. Hyundai Motor Co. leads in five categories in the annual vehicle quality study released Monday by Strategic Vision Inc., a San Diego-based market research company and consultant to automakers."

    "Hyundai's Azera led among large cars, and its Santa Fe led among small sport utility vehicles. Its Entourage was tied for best minivan with the Quest by Nissan Motor Co. and the Sedona by Hyundai affiliate Kia Motors Corp."

    link title
  • jefferygjefferyg Posts: 418
    Popular Mechanics had a Kia Sedona over the past year as a long term test vehicle. The June issue of PM had the last report. It got good reviews, but I noticed that their best mileage was 20.5 mpg. My wife's Odyssey has gotten better than 24 at least two times when I've checked it on trips and that's been with the A/C on. The lowest we've seen was 16 mpg on all local driving. The Sedona's worst according to PM was 14.8.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Kudos, that's cool.

    I'm not surprised to see the Entourage do well, what surprises me is the Quest making that list.

    I haven't driven the new facelifted ones, though.
  • josm100josm100 Posts: 30
    That depends on how the calculated it, the computer readout is deceptively poor at calculating. If you don't reset it often it will read your mpg way low. I get 26.9 on the highway as a rule on average and 20-22.2 in the city with a brand new engine (200 miles). Hyundai has a break in period in which gas milage improves over the first 5000-7000 miles.

    Driving style is also a factor, your wife and I could be much calmer drivers than the PM's tester, just a thought. Joe.
  • jefferygjefferyg Posts: 418
    According to the article, they have driven the van a total of 16,795 miles. The vehicles in their tests are driven by a number of different drivers, and I can't imagine that PM would depend solely on the onboard computer to figure mileage.

    The trip computer is actually one option the Ody is lacking that I really miss. Three of our previous vehicles had them and I actually found the mileage figures to be always on the money.
  • josm100josm100 Posts: 30
    Well I'm very glad I get better gass milage than they did, also my van is the entourage not the sedona but there shouldn't be that much of a difference. The trip computer is cool but it has some flaws. If you don't reset it it calculates idle time into your trip as miles per gallon. You can be getting 22mpg in the city and after a couple of minutes of idling in a parking lot your mpg average is reduced to 10-12mpg.

    For those considering the entourage, don't let fuel economy hold you back, mine is good (26.9 HW/21 city) for the engine and van size. You may get slightly better with the odyssey but you pay much extra for a similar product and don't get the 10 years 100,000 mile warrenty or 5 years roadside assistence and much more.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I test drove a Sedona and it was registering 6-7 mpg on the trip computer. That was a bit scary, but I guess before delivery they sit idling a lot.

    Still, the Sienna we bought started at 13.8mpg.

    One reason I picked the Sienna LE package 3 over the Ody EX is that trip computer. It's very nice to have. Sienna also has a power 3rd row vented window.

    The Ody does have Auto Climate Control instead, however, which the Sienna LE lacks. Call it a draw in terms of content.

    It's very hard to compare these directly because there are little differences like that.

    Basically, though, for rough equivalents:

    Sienna LE package 3 = Odyssey EX
    XLE package 6 = Ody EX-L
    XLE package 7 = Ody EX-L RES
    XLE package 8 = Ody EX-L NAV RES

    And what I found is interesting - in that first instance the Sienna is cheaper, but in the other 3 instances the Odyssey is actually cheaper.

    Shop around, folks, do your research!
  • jefferygjefferyg Posts: 418
    One thing to keep in mind is that anytime the mileage meter is reset it is usually going to give you some outrageous figure for the first few miles depending on whether you're taking to the city streets or the open road.

    Even a Dodge Ram with a hemi can register 50 mpg (or better) if you reset the computer at the top of a mountain and drive to the bottom. By the same token a Prius might even drop into the teens or even single digits if you reset at the bottom and drive to the top of that same mountain.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Generally, the longer the distance driven, the more accurate it becomes.

    And you're absolutely right about where you are compared to sea level. Ideally you would begin and end a trip at the same exact spot, to equalize that.
  • I bought an Entourage SE after getting a price quote on Odysseys on-line and going to a Toyota dealer and getting a price on a Sienna. The Toyota dealer wouldn't budge on price and was actually more money than the Honda. I don't remember what the Sienna's level was but it was equivalent to the 2nd level Honda. Regardless, the Entourage SE was way cheaper than both of them and came equipped pretty nicely (close to or better than Toyota and Honda)and has a longer warranty.

    The gas mileage stated on all cars are EPA estimates unless something changed over the years and I doubt that a trip computer is going to be very precise. This is the first car I've owned that has one but I haven't had the car long enough to play with it and see how accurate it is (or what my MPG is). All three minivans say they get between 18 to 25 MPG and honestly they are some huge vehicles.

    It comes down to what you feel comfortable with ... for some it's Honda, for some it'll be Toyota, for others it'll be Hyundai and for some none of the above.

    My wife wanted another minivan and with the price we got on the Entourage, we couldn't pass it up. Hopefully we don't have problems with it and it will last for 10 years. Honda and Toyota have had lemons as well as Hyundai. My 1988 Honda Civic had a really bad problem with it's paint job ... Honda called it acid rain - only car that I've owned that ever had that problem.
  • jefferygjefferyg Posts: 418
    We'll be driving the Ody to San Antonio and back over the next week. I'll let everyone know when we get back how it does on mileage.

    As far as the trip computer goes, I believe I already stated in an earlier post that the three vehicles we've had that had them were perfectly accurate. Everytime I ever checked on paper against the computer it was exactly the same.

    Going back to my mountain illustration, one of the things I enjoyed on the VW Passat we had was driving in the mountains. It was especially fun to set the multi-function display to show the real-time mileage while you were going down a mountain. Several times it made it to over 200 mpg, and if you took your foot completely off the accelerator it wouldn't even register, it just showed ---. I thought it would have been a nice touch to make it just say "tilt". :shades:
  • hrngffcrhrngffcr Posts: 90
    The Entourage has the trip computer AND the power 3rd row vented window AND auto climate control, AND it's less expensive than both the Sienna and the Ody, AND with a longer warranty than either.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Still no AWD, HIDs, or factory NAV, though.

    A loaded Sienna has much more (and expensive) equipment than a loaded Entourage. I stand by that statement.

    AWD is market priced at about $1750. HIDs are worth more than a grand. NAV is a $2000-2200 option.

    So of course a loaded Sienna with all those things is going to be priced above and beyond any other van. It has features above and beyond any other van.

    Funny thing is I used to think the same way. I saw Siennas with MSRPs around $42k and almost passed out. But keep in mind a crossover SUV with all those items would be near $50 grand and still not offer nearly as much space.

    Plus, you don't have to spend $40 grand. I spend $25k and got 8 real seats, power doors on both sides, 6CD changer, trip computer, 266hp, all the stuff I felt we wanted. Added an aftermarket 12" DVD player for $900. GPS for $350, portable. So for mid $20s I pretty much got everything I wanted.

    You do not have to spend more than $27k to end up with a very well equipped Sienna. I didn't.

    Cheers. :shades:
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,026
    Since it is being mentioned, should the Sedona be added to this comparison?

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • shaky4shaky4 Posts: 25
    Hyundai has made giant strides in quality and build top notch cars, be it azera or veracruz or entourage or sonata. What really beats me is CR's flagrant prejudice towards Hyundai. If Entourage is good, so be it. I hate seeing words like nearly (or) almost (or) not quite when the van is as good as anything out there with sophistication and performance to boot, period. I also hate when Hyundai gets low scores in styling department which is highly subjective. To me, Hyundai cars are good looking...

    I am sure all of you will agree that the Camry, Avalon, or the Nissan Sentra were some of the ugliest cars inside out until the newer body designs came out, but still Toyota always got top scores when the Koreans got flogged. And I read a review in a reputed auto magazine that the front grille of Jaguar S type looks like men's urinal.

    Today, there is no difference in quality/performance between the top four, Odyssey, Entourage, Sienna or Sedona (not in order) although I wish Sienna/Odyssey were priced a little lower so I could afford one.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    CR's flagrant prejudice towards Hyundai

    Really? Do you realize that in last year's auto issue the 2004 Sonata was rated the single most reliable car in their entire survey?

    There exists no such bias.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Sure. It's pretty much a rebadged Entourage, although I'm sure there's a little bit of differentiation. But for the most part, the 2 cars are very alike.
  • shaky4shaky4 Posts: 25
    CR is heavily biased towards Totota/Honda and their luxury versions Lexus, Infiniti and Acura. There is no top pick from Hyundai in CR's 2005, 2006 or 2007 cars. In fact I was surprised not finding any american car either. In fact, consumer generated JD Power ranking gives a truer picture.

    A car that earns the best safety score ever given to an automobile (Sedona/Entourage) by NHTSA, which has ESC and 6 airbags standard across all trim levels (ESC saves lives!!), has great warranty, roadside assistance (which is $1000 + with other makes), decent looks, good fit and finish and low price with abundant features deserves to be a top pick.

    I am not saying Toyota and Honda do not deserve to sweep top honors, just give credit where it is due. I expected at least 1 Hyundai to make it to top pick list and was disappointed, to say the least.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    That in judging the final rankings, CR doesn't weigh value as much as American consumers do.

    Maybe they should do a "Best Buy" award, in addition to "Top Pick". Sometimes buyers aren't necessarily looking for the very best vehicle in that class, they want the best bargain.

    I'm sure the deck in that case would be stacked towards most Hyundai/Kia models.
  • hrngffcrhrngffcr Posts: 90
    First, I was, of course, referring to comparably equipped vehicles. Second, I live in the South and have less than no need for AWD. Third, I have realized that Hyundai did me a favor in not offering a nav system, based on what I have read about dedicated nav systems in new vehicles. I purchased an aftermarket Pioneer system which looks like OEM and is upgradeable.

    Who cares what a crossover SUV costs? You're paying premium price for those and for a truck frame.

    I'm curious, for $25K did you get memory seats, power driver and passenger seats, tri-zone AC, thirteen speakers, tire pressure monitor, adjustable pedals, power side doors and power lift gate, sun roof, the 6 CD changer, power second row windows and power third row ventilation windows, DVD player among the things that come to mind most immediately? You get that and more for well under $30K with the Entourage. You don't get that for close to $30k in the Sienna.
  • I agree. The japanese have proven their reliability, now you get to pay a premium for that.

    "Crossovers" are based on a car frame. ;)
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    you're paying a premium for AWD (okay, you could get a Sienna AWD, but still...) and the premium of not having to tell people "I drive a minivan." ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm curious, for $25K did you get...

    memory seats? no
    power driver and passenger seats? driver yes
    tri-zone AC? two zone, manual
    thirteen speakers? did not count, stereo sounds good though
    tire pressure monitor? yes, and the real one, not ABS based
    adjustable pedals? no, but wheel tilts/telescopes
    power side doors? yes
    power lift gate? no, but there is a power assist to close it
    sun roof? no
    6 CD changer? yes, with control on steering wheels
    power second row windows? yes
    power third row ventilation windows? yes
    DVD player? yes, but aftermarket, $900

    The Sienna is equipped better than you seem to think.

    I did look at an Entourage Limited, but that model did not include a moonroof or a 6CD changer, those only come in option package.

    If you add both of those the Entourage costs a bit more than I paid, or about the same price as my Sienna + DVD player I had put in, and I got a 12" screen that makes the factory DVD screen look puny.

    I test drove a loaded Kia Sedona, and it didn't have auto up driver's window, plus the Koreans do not offer an 8th seating position. So there's a couple of things I got that you didn't.

    I also have a lot more horsepower and noticeably quicker acceleration, though the Kia was not lacking in any way. Sienna has more space, too, it felt wider and more substantial.

    The Korean vans come very well equipped, but pick the right package with the Sienna and it's a better value than most people seem to think.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hosts: can we please add the Toyota Sienna to the name on this thread? We seem to be comparing them directly, I know I drove pretty much all of these before deciding.

    Funny thing is I only noticed some of these things after I bought it, but the Sienna has a few surprises up its sleeve. Even at the $25k price level, you can get:

    * trip computer
    * power vented 3rd row windows
    * 3rd row position for tailgating (Ody lacks. Kia?)
    * puddle lamps
    * tow package included (ATF cooler)
    * roof rack cross bars
    * heated mirrors
    * wiper de-icers
    * auto UP driver's window
    * 8 adult-sized seats (the only van that offers this)

    The Ody EX lacks all but the mirrors and de-icers, I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong).

    Not sure how many of those items the Entourage and Sedona offer, but at least a couple.

    So in terms of content it's not quite as clear as people think. Toyota offers more value than you first might expect.

    Cheers. :shades:
  • shaky4shaky4 Posts: 25
    My Entourage Limited offers all that except 3rd row position for tailgating and I am not sure what that is and 8-seat option:

    It offers though:

    *Projector Headlamps (probably one of the nicest non-HID headlights along with GMC Acadia)
    *Projector fog lights
    *Leather seats
    *Heated seats with 5 settings
    *Integrated memory system for seats, pedals and mirrors
    *Digital tri zone climate control with cabin filter and air ionizer built in
    *Auto dipping mirrors in reverse
    *Active Head Restraints
    *660W sound system with 2 subwoofers and 11 speakers (The only mainstream van that features a 7.1 Dolby Digital/Prologic7/DTS system) a treat for audiophiles
    *Wireless headphones
    *5 years unlimited roadside assistance in continental US ($1000 value)
    *Much longer warranty on powertrain, bumper to bumper or perforation ($1000 value over the 3yr/36K and 5yr/60K warranty)
    *Better safety (remember 07 sienna fared poor in rear crash test conducted by IIHS)

    The only thing we are missing is the 8th seat. And I paid 27,700 for mine, $1000 more than you. It just does not add up!! Similarly equipped the Sienna costs $6000 more even before you purchase a matching warranty.

    The Sienna is a fantastic car, no doubt, but as far as value goes....?
This discussion has been closed.