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Honda Odyssey vs. Hyundai Entourage vs. Kia Sedona vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    HOST,

    Is it just me, or is this not basically redundant with the "Minivan Shopping" thread?

    Neither seem to have enough participants to keep them active, wouldn't combining them be more productive to the readers (more info, yet not an overwhelming amount, in one place?)?

    This one hasn't had a hit since last week! And the Minivan Shopping thread has been stagnant much longer.

    Just one humble opinion, but I thought I'd ask and see what this was about.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I recall it used to be just the Odyssey and the Entourage, and then more recently, Sedona and Sienna were added, which now resembled more and more to the Minivan Shopping forum.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,026
    Participants kept bringing up other make/models so I kept adding them to the category. Just aiming to please, doncha know. ;) The minivan shopping one includes domestics, so the title has been edited to reflect that. Hope this alleviates your confusion.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    But after the end of the year it'll be pretty much redundant to have both discussions- all that will be left of the domestics will be the Chrysler vans...

    (I sense a discussion merger in the future :) )
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thanks!

    (I wasn't trying to be difficult, just trying to figure out what the deal was).

    I gotcha now. :)
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,026
    Yes, that is true. It will most likely archive on its own.

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,026
    No problem!

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • henryzxhenryzx Posts: 10
    We just purchased our first Korean made car, after all my life a Nissan fan. After test drove Siena/Ody/Town&country/chevy uplander(yuk!)..then Sedona I didn't even know the Entourage existed at this point....felt in love with the Sedona w/ leather package....then I found its tween sister, love it...test drove, research, then research then research....We finally bought the Entourage limited with Ultimate package....to us the fit and finish is on par with the Sienna, the infinty system with 13 speakers is just niceeee....and it's only $28,300...can't beat the deal...with 5yrs/60,000 Bumper to Bumper, 10yrs/100,000 powertrain ..... Just an unbeatable deal! Love it! everyone should check it out first before buying a van!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Congratulations. :shades:
  • siennamisiennami Posts: 116
    I've just started my first experience with Kia, and it hasn't been that bad, really. I recently realized that the Entourage and Sedona are virtually twins. Had I known that, I probably would've ended up with the Hyundai simply because there's a local dealer. Anyhoo... you really can't tell them apart, especially from the back. I think the Sedona is a very solid vehicle-- to me it's like driving a tank sometimes. It barely fits in my garage, and I've scratched it several times parking it (yikes!). But, it is convenient, as far as the third seat stow-n-go seats are concerned. It's pretty quiet, and it's been good for my back, so what more can I ask for(except leather seats)? :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    For the garage, what about hanging tennis balls from a string so you're warned just before you hit something?

    My dad used to have a Crown Vic and had just an inch or two on either side to squeeze it in his garage, but the tennis ball trick worked perfectly. He set it to hit the windshield when he had to stop.

    You could use the same idea on the sides, too.

    I'm getting used to driving a van as well, but at least the mirrors are big and blind spots are small.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    WHY is the Caravan/Grand Caravan THE BEST SELLING minivan when all the EXPERTS rate the other minivans higher? :blush:

    WHAT do the buyers of minivans know that the "EXPERTS" don't know? :shades:
  • jefferygjefferyg Posts: 418
    WHAT do the buyers of minivans know that the "EXPERTS" don't know?

    Rebates, Rebates, Rebates.

    Price and fleet sales are the only things that keep the Caravan ahead of the other vans in sales. They are like the last several years of Ford Tauruses. If you take away the fleet sales their numbers are just not that great.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Best selling does not mean best overall.

    Do you really think the Ford Explorer is the best SUV on the market?

    Dodge has several advantages:

    * they were first, 1984 IIRC
    * they have by far the most current owners
    * loyalty incentives try to keep those customers
    * other incentives keep prices lower
    * economies of scale let them charge less money
    * more fleet sales, as mentioned above

    As for the "experts", well, they get press fleet cars for free, and aren't paying for them. They pick the best product, period, often times with cost no object. It's not their money.

    Also, press fleet cars tend to be loaded up to the gills, to show off all the best features available.

    So they won't have a base Dodge Caravan, they would have a loaded up Town & Country Limited with every single feature offered.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Very well stated. I agree 100%.

    Best selling means the MOST Value for the price paid. Dodge will continue to be the best selling because of all the advantages listed. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm just willing to pay more to get a better overall package. Specifically, more power and better mileage was too hard to resist.

    I keep my vehicles for a very long time, and did some math. A +2mpg difference for me adds up to more than $1000 in savings over the life of the vehicle.

    I bet my TCO will end up no higher than it would have been if I had purchased that $20,600 Grand Caravan (which also lacked SAC and power sliding doors).
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The GC and T&C with 3.3L V6 has THE SAME EPA rating of 19 City 26 Highway as the Sienna with either 3.3L or 3.5L although either Sienna has more power.

    Since neither my wife nor I drive aggressively, we don't notice the additional power of the Sienna while the gas mileage is almost identical. The Sienna with 5 speed AT has to shift down 2 gears on the same highway where the 02 T&C shifted down only 1 gear to maintain the same 75 MPH speed on I-15. :shades:
  • henryzxhenryzx Posts: 10
    My Entourage Limited - With ultimate package has the following options ($28,300) beside 250hp/253 bhp torque - 17inch. aluminum wheels - 4 ABS - traction control etc... plus

    -Leather seatings - quad captain chairs.
    -front driver/pass seat heating.
    -Memory seats/rearview mirrors/pedal.
    -Power seats/pedal/rearview mirrors.
    -Power Sunroof
    -Rear parking sensor
    -Automatic Tilt rearview mirrors when back up.
    -Tri-zone Auto Climate control
    -power sliding doors/liftgate
    -DVD entertainment system
    -13 speakers Infinity Sound system (Surround Sound)
    -Elelectro luminescent gauges cluster.
    -Shiftronic 5 speed transmission.

    The comparable Odyssey/Sienna/Quest that would cost $8000-$9000 more NOT to metion 60k bumper to bumper and 100K powertrain warranty....! For me, I could not tell the difference between those three when driving...The Quest I test drove seems to be more "sporty" than Ody/Entourage/Siena....1000 miles on my Entourage as of Today , not even a rattle ... Zero complaint ! :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, I refuse to compare a 266hp engine to a 180hp engine directly.

    The 3.8l Dodge gets 18/25 so you still sacrifice a bit of economy and some power.

    Also, real world economy numbers show Toyota's advantage to be even greater. You'll see when you get your Dodge. In fact, I bet you'll change your name to hanchrysler and offer polarized opinions (both good and bad) about your new van then, too. ;)

    YMMV.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    An incredible value for the purchase price, without a doubt. You're wrong about the $8000-9000 difference, though. More on that later....

    My LE does has power seats, power mirrors (heated even), power sliding doors on both sides, 12" DVD (aftermarket, though), and luminescent gauges. With the DVD I paid $26.2k or so, so a couple of grand less than you did.

    I have a few things you're missing:

    * seating for 8 (critical for me)
    * auto UP driver's window
    * transmission/PS coolers; ready for towing
    * more HP
    * better fuel efficiency
    * more refinement overall
    * better ride

    Also, you have leather on 2 rows, the 3rd row is actually vinyl. Toyota's leather goes on all 3 rows.

    We preferred cloth, 3 out of 4 of us, so no thanks on the leather. I tend to hate auto climate control, so I'm happy to control that manually. These are just personal preferences. They do carry value to most people, I recognize.

    Loaded Siennas do cost $8000-9000 more, but you get a few things loaded Hyundais do not offer:

    * HID headlights
    * laser cruise control
    * GPS Navigation
    * AWD

    Those are EXPENSIVE features. You should expect a loaded Sienna to cost more, a LOT more. AWD alone is worth $1750. HIDs are over a grand. Laser cruise, who knows, but it's a pretty exotic features you'd only expect on a Lexus. GPS is another $2200 worth.

    That's about $6000 worth of luxury options. So yes, a loaded Sienna will cost a lot more, as it should.

    It's very hard to directly compare similarly equipped models. For instance, an Entourage Limited doesn't come with a 6CD standard. You need to add two options packages to really get it loaded up.

    A loaded Sienna, street prices, runs about $38k. But it would have that $6000 worth of options I mentioned. So that's about $4000 more than you paid for yours without those expensive luxuries.

    You'll get the $4000 back at resale, too. We shopped used Kia Sedona EXs, and they were ~20k or so. A used Sienna XLE ran more than I paid, a good $26-28k and up. It was crazy.

    I don't doubt for a minute that for your purchase price you got a ton of value. Still, I only gave up about half of what you listed, got 8 seats, it's quicker, and uses less fuel, and depreciates less. I spent $2000 less and got a massive 12" DVD screen.

    I'm quite happy and have no regrets at all.

    PS Check out Karl on Cars, his Blog has many entries on their long term Sedona. They're good, and certainly close, but the Sienna is still more refined.
  • shaky4shaky4 Posts: 25
    Ateixeira:

    Good post, it was very informative. While I agree with most of your conclusions on resale/value, it seems a bit off about quality/refinement part of the discussion.

    I am an environmental scientist and did independent tests using a precise portable sound meter from my lab. I positioned the sensor 6 inches below the rearview mirror The entourage did come in quieter than odyssey at 63.2 +/- 0.1 dBA vs 64.7 dBA on my cousins 2007 EXL on the same road stretch at 65 mph using an Extech digital sound level meter. My cousin was very cooperative and allowed me to borrow her van. I moved the meter around and the entourage was surprisingly quieter than the Odyssey by an average 1-1.5 decibels (remember we are talking log scale). They were almost equal on road noise until I hit an old concrete stretch on the freeway where Entourage clocked 69 db versus 75 db for Odyssey (It might be the tires!!).

    The result does not surprise me because Motortrend did a comparo of Hyundai Veracruz vs lexus RX 350 (Not Highlander or Pilot remember) and the Veracruz came out quieter in 4 different noise tests, Lexus bettered in 1 test and they tied in the 6th. Maybe your entourage tester was not test-drive ready/refined but I am willing to give any person in Cincinnati area a demo on a weekend with real NIST calibrated instruments. Unfortunately, I do not have a friend with 07 sienna and 06 model would not be a fair comparison. In the past 2-3 years, Hyundai's quality has been phenomenal and you could buy a Hyundai just for quality/refinement.
  • henryzxhenryzx Posts: 10
    the Entourage
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, I actually drove a loaded up Kia Sedona EX.

    I've read that the Entourage has slightly more sound insulation, though I'm not sure if that's true. They are built on the same exact assembly line. It's possible the Entourage is quieter than the Sedona I tested.

    Also, the Sienna rides more quietly than the Odyssey. Also, like you mentioned, run-flat tires have very rigid sidewalls that would increase road noise.

    It would be interesting to use your instruments to measure noise in a Sienna without run-flat tires, though.

    Any how, the Sedona I drove was not as quiet as my Sienna. Maybe the pressure in the tires was too high, or maybe it just has less insulation than its Hyundai twin, maybe even both.

    Any how, after my test drive, the interesting thing is that I concluded a value-priced model actually made more sense to me. In other words, I priced an Entourage GLS for $19.8k, and at that price it simply owes no apologies to anyone, i.e. it's more than what anyone should expect at that price level.

    I'm talking material quality, engine refinement, panel gaps, switch feel, ride, everything.

    This is my subjective opinion, but if we were talking about ice cream sundaes, I felt that Toyota made a better vanilla that cost more.

    Hyundai offered more toppings. You can get nuts, fudge and caramel, whipped cream, two cherries, the works.

    I got a Sienna with only fudge and nuts. But I felt the ice cream underneath it all was just a little bit better, the way Breyer's is just a tad better than Edy's ice cream.

    If we want to push the ice cream analogy a bit further, I'd even say it has fewer calories (better gas mileage) and stronger vanilla bean flavor (more HP).

    The one thing we can all conclude and agree on is this:

    Now I'm hungry for ice cream! :D
  • shaky4shaky4 Posts: 25
    I would take these independent sound tests (including mine) with a pinch of salt. There are too many variables to conclude scientifically like temperature, traffic, wind speed, drafts, humidity, engine temperature (engines are noisier when cold) et cetera. You cannot have a comparison unless you have the vans in same condition driven at exact location, at exact same time, by same driver (which is impossible) under identical conditions.

    When I test drove the top four repeatedly over 2 months scratching my head, the Kia was the quietest followed by Toyota on some days. On some occasions I found Toyota/Honda to be quietest. Unfortunately Hyundai had only a GLS for test drive and it was not as quiet. The limited one was a manager special on the floor and I had to buy my new Entourage without test driving. At idle/initial acceleration, the entourage has a sporty exhaust note but it is whisper quiet with seamless shifts. I also found the interior quality to be quite good, though, I liked Nissan's interior quality the best.

    Kia had hydraulic engine mounts, 5 speed transmission, and independent suspension on all four wheels as early as 2002. My first minivan, a 2002 sedona ex, was whisper quiet and we were sad to see it go.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I remember Nissan did have some very nice fabric on the Quest. I didn't like the interior at all and the 2nd row windows don't go down.

    To be honest I felt the Sedonda, Entourage, Sienna, and Odyssey were all on an entirely higher level than the Quest, though to be fair I haven't driven the newer ones with the redesigned interior.
  • autowriteautowrite Posts: 226
    In Canada RunFlat tires are standard on the Sienna and not available on the Odyssey. Up here the Odyssey uses 16" tires.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Best selling does not mean best overall.

    Do you really think the Ford Explorer is the best SUV on the market?


    **Sidebar: Ford's gas-guzzler Explorer (it really eats gas to be so small) is now behind in sales to the number 1 Honda CR-V.

    ****Now back to your regularly scheduled minivans. Stay tuned for to GRAD News for more random updates**** ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Not even on the Odyssey touring?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True, just happened this year.

    Even the CR-V, though, isn't what I'd consider the best SUV. No V6/engine upgrade option for starters.
This discussion has been closed.