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BMW 3-Series - AWD or RWD?

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I'm thinking that with a commute of less than five miles either way that there's no way you're going to see the EPA average for city driving. The sad fact is that engines need a couple of miles to fully warm up, and until they do, their mileage will sucketh much.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,316
    ". . .engines need a couple of miles to fully warm up. . ."

    Well, I'm sayin' it's way more than a couple of miles.

    Having had an oil temperature gauge in a couple of cars, I learned that it can take from 30 to 60+ minutes for the oil to reach equilibrium. The 60+ minutes piece has to do with driving in the winter in Edmonton, where the temperatures are routinely well (as in way) below zero.

    Even today, when I rent GM sleds from National, there is a readout selection that lets you look at the transmission fluid temperature. I consider that a reasonable analog for engine oil temp, and it takes at least 30 minutes to reach stability, and that's with highway speeds. Around town. . .

    In-town driving kills fuel mileage, especially when it's cold outside.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Posts: 351
    May I recommend spell-check?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,401
    What is your tank to tank mileage? My 330xi averages 21.5-22 per tank mixed 75/25% Hwy/City. 25K on the clock now.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    It so happens that I was golfing yesterday with a friend that owns a 2002 330cic convertible. They moved last year and he now has a 32 mile one way commute, about 25 miles of which is 60+ mph highway and the rest stop and go suburban (not city) roads. He keeps meticulous mileage records and over the past year (18,000 miles) has averaged right at 25.0 mpg. On pure highway trips of 200+ miles, he has gotten as high as 33 mpg, but averages about 29-30. These figures are all about 1 mpg better than my 1995 Nissan Maxima, which is pretty impressive, since I think the BMW weighs about 300- 400+/- lbs more than my Maxima.

    P.S. He has a hardtop that he uses between November and March, but uses a beater SUV in very cold or snowy weather. Also, his car is a 5-speed manual (as is my Maxima).
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,401
    My problem is my speed on the hwy side of things is well north of your freinds and the xi heft/drag thing.

    Your friend gets a 13.6% efficiency advantage due to the drive train differences and his driving style. Very impressive for a BMW of recent vintage. I am sure the older models of the 3-series were/are higher m.p.g. due to the weight advantage but given 3,500 - 3,700 lbs., technology moves ahead.

    I can just imagine what these drive trains are capable of with 500 lbs. shaved off the package! HMM...I smell 1 series, stripped, however!

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    My problem is my speed on the hwy side of things is well north of your freinds

    I should have stated that the speed limit on those roads is 60-65. He's a bit more aggressive.

    Which brings up another issue. We've all had it drummed into us that we'd get better fuel efficiency at 55 vs. 65 vs. 75. In my TL 6-speed, I get almost exactly the same, having driven the same highway route in the same weather conditions many, many times. Anything less than 60 mph in 6th gear feels like the car is lugging and I need to downshift to pass. Once I go above 75-80, efficiency drops slightly, but it appears that the sweet spot on that car is around 72-75. In the case of my 911S, my best ever highway tankful was a 360 mile trip at an average speed of 76 mph (80+ much of the way) in which I averaged 27.8 mpg (vs. EPA of 25). At 65-70 I average 26-27.

    I think many/most 6-speed manual transmissions are geared for peak efficiency in the 70-75 mph range, not 55.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,401
    For a hwy-only trip only, 330xi mpg is 26-27. With no traffic, I have reached a best of 28.

    Not bad for an AWD sled!

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "I think many/most 6-speed manual transmissions are geared for peak efficiency in the 70-75 mph range, not 55."

    Both of my 5-Speed manual equipped BMWs had their sweet spot for mileage somewhere north of 70 as well. My 2002 530i would do about 31 mpg at 75 while my 1999 328i would get more like 34-35 mpg at those same speeds. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,401
    What was your combined MPG and what do you think you average over the life of ownership of the 3 vs. the 5? I think the weight differences from today's cars are 300-500 lbs, 3-series, 5-series, respectively. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

    Regards,
    OW
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Here's something scary I never bothered to look up. The 335i weighs 3594 lbs and the 535i weighs 3660 lbs.

    I had no idea - the 5 series is only 66 lbs heavier! :cry:
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    IIRC, the combined mileage on the 328i (less than 3,300 pounds) in NYC metro traffic was about 22 and my life mileage was between 25 and 26. For the 530i (less than 3,600 pounds) I also got about 22 in NYC and Boston area driving and 26 to 27 for the life of the car (it ran on the highway a far greater percentage of the time than did the 328i). As a side note, per the OBC, the 530i was still delivering over 20 mpg at 125 mph while I was in Germany. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,401
    OK, here's the question of the day...how/why can they keep the weight down on the 5 and let the weight gain on the 3?

    Shipo, that's really good mileage. I assume you also did spirited driving over the life of both cars. Very impressive numbers, IMO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    The 5er is kept relatively light because it was endowed with a lighter (and more expensive) aluminum front end and extensive use of aluminum elsewhere.

    As for the mileage I got on my BMWs, yeah, I they did pretty well for me. There was plenty of spirited driving done over the life of both cars. That said, their almost astounding highway mileage always seemed to bring the average up pretty darn fast. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ordered a 335xi sedan w/manual trans, will take 6 to 8 wks to get it.went with a all wheel drive for a couple of reasons 1)love the added grip for all weather conditions 2)will be tunning the car to get around 75 lbs more torgue & 50 exta hp.read an article in european car that stated the 335i got an upgrade like the one i want by vishnu tunning it read.(we found it impossible to keep the the vishnu 335i connected to the ground,the first 3 gears were met with globs of,thick white smoke, the kind camaro boys like.)3)test drove both cars in automatics both felt great on dry roads, fast & nimble. took a skip barber driving class & find it hard to believe for an everday driver to see a difference, on a test drive, but somehow habitat1 could,wonder where he took his test drives?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    The 335xi does weigh 220 lbs more than the 335i.

    Some people who don't often drive in snow/ice would rather have the quicker, more nimble RWD version.

    Both are nice cars - congrats on your choice.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Some people who don't often drive in snow/ice would rather have the quicker, more nimble RWD version."

    Then again, there are those of us who do often drive on show and ice that would rather have the quicker and more nimble RWD version as well. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Most people don't go out of their way to do donuts in parking lots. There are a few exceptions though... :blush:
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I don't want RWD so that I can blow donuts (although drifting around the cul-de-sac in front of our house with the back end hanging out slinging snow all over is a heck of a lot of fun), I want RWD because it is more nimble (winter or summer), is lighter, stops shorter, and is IMHO, the better all-around car. That said, if I lived high up in the Sierras or Rockies, I'd seriously consider an "xi". ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • getzgetz Posts: 24
    I have a Z4 M Coupe used specifically for donuts. The 335xi is the winter mistress however, for obvious reasons.
    -Getz
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    but somehow habitat1 could,wonder where he took his test drives?

    Beach Drive / Rock Creek Parkway in DC is my favorite test drive route, and a frequent communting route. But understand, I am not a "camaro boy"....

    we found it impossible to keep the the vishnu 335i connected to the ground,the first 3 gears were met with globs of,thick white smoke, the kind camaro boys like

    That kind of "thrill" didn't do much for me when I was 20 and it certainly doesn't three decades later. It's certainly your perogative to turn a 335xi automatic into a stoplight drag racer with "vishnu" bolt ons. But let's face it, there's always some punk kid in a 500hp Camaro waiting to show you his 10 second 1/4 mile rear end. For about 20% of the price of a 335ix, before the modifications.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,401
    ...But let's face it, there's always some punk kid in a 500hp Camaro waiting to show you his 10 second 1/4 mile rear end. For about 20% of the price of a 335ix, before the modifications.

    ...or some fanatic mechanic that spent over $100K on a 1967 Mustang that beats the 10 second mark! During hole shots, he sees the sky.

    I am out of that scene and 300/300 would be just fine for me...no need to "stir the pot". At least I could keep your 911 tail lights in view for a short time!

    Regards,
    OW

    Regards,
    OW
  • i just find it very & i mean very hard to beleive that all of you are that noticable of drivers that you can tell such a small margin in difference in both cars. also not sure if its faster, that being the 335i, i dont beleive it true from 0 to 60.what i am saying is for example if 2 racecar drivers where to race i believe the 335xi driver has a pritty good chance of victory! yea its that close of a difference in my oppinion. also habitat1 i bought a manual to be fitted to my choice of small upgrade tuning. anyway nothing but fun safe driving to you getleman! :shades:
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You can't escape the laws of physics.

    The 335i and xi have the same engine, but the xi weighs 220 lbs more, has more driveline loss, has less ideal weight distribution, and has a higher drag coefficient. The 335xi also costs $2000 more and gets poorer gas mileage.

    As far as a race is concerned - if the 335i has the sport package (and who in their right mind would order this car without it?), then it also has a 20 MPH higher top speed.

    I think the only place where the 335xi would outperform a 335i is on an ice skating rink.

    BTW Joe, if you don't mind my asking, where do you live?
  • just read an article on bmw rally racing, they opt to go with the 335 XI instead of the supercharged m3 rwd that won the astralia rally race, im thinking theres a few reasons why 1 being they will install bigger turbos to this beautiful & capable engine. 2 probably the biggest is the awd! those subaru & audi quattro guys will have there work cut out for them! ok enough with racing & back to why everday drivers are better off with awd.1 the RAIN this car in the rain is better. 2 the snow yes we should all agree that with the same rubber the awd wins.3 it is the way of the future, for me its the better & safer choice of the 2,for my family it will always be awd, just as i see the automotive industry will be doing! again fun & safe driving gentleman. ;)
  • long islad NY.hopefully ill lose 60lbs so i can stop a little & i mean little better,just like everything else, a better driver wins.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,401
    I agree with you regarding non-sp 335i...that is where I feel the xi is an edge better in the twisties.

    I never drove the SP 335 but I'm sure the modified parts in the sp would out-shine the xi capability.

    Perhaps I'm wrong and it won't be the last time. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,899
    While I was at Oktoberfest in Fort Worth an old friend offered me his pristine 1974 2002 tii. It's fitted with the ultra-rare Alpina intake and exhaust manifolds, as well as other uncommon upgrades such as Turbo wheels, dash cluster, steering wheel, and rear spoiler. Now, how to convince my wife that we need a fifth vehicle...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 1975 2002A 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,401
    Tell her you need something to vent your stress...

    Regards,
    OW
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I wanted to go to O'Fest (I seriously entertained the notion of driving my E30 down from Seattle), but I just couldn't justify the trip. I'm heading to Ft. Worth on business for 2 weeks this Sunday. I wanted to time it so I could travel on the G, but it didn't work out. Also, this will be my 6th trip to Ft. Worth this year, and frankly, I'm sick of that town - it's not nearly as exciting as the brochures make it out to be, IMO.

    As for the tii, your wife simply must be made to understand why you HAVE to own this car. Explain to her just how special it is, and how tragic it would be for it to end up in the wrong, unloving, unappreciative hands.

    It's your duty to buy the car, and she must not be allowed to stop you! Tell her if she loves you, she would understand. :surprise:
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