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To whom would YOU sell Rover, Volvo, Jaguar?

MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,693
edited March 11 in Volvo
It's a badly-kept secret that Ford is itching to unload Volvo, Jaguar and Rover.

Problem is, even Ford isn't sure who it wants to sell these entities to. Jaguar and Rover are quite inter-related and share a lot of resources, but Volvo is pretty independent.

If you were in charge, to whom would you sell each of these three prestige brands? Other automakers? An outside investment group? Domestic or overseas? Would you sell them all to one buyer (unlikely but hey, you're in charge!) or group them or parcel them out?

What seems logical and smart to you?

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,161
    would be the smartest thing here. Jag and LR, sure sell them off as a package deal. But Volvo and Mazda have been the best investments Ford has made, both have been utilized in Ford products with great success. I mean look at how Saab ended up, now THERE'S a model of how not to run an aquisition... On the contrary, Ford has done an excellent job with Volvo.

    Sell the other two to Hyundai, they seem like they could use a luxury marque or two and Land Rover offroad knowledge could be helpful.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Volvo's not going to be easily unwound from Ford now, so they might as well hang onto it. Jaguar and RR can go to whoever is willing to pay for them; probably some outfit in China that would otherwise put out Zhagulas and Rang Whoas.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,693
    So you think Volvo will end up being a partnership deal between Ford and someone else....a co-ownership?
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    ...say that Ford is not exploring the sale of Volvo, just Jaguar and Land Rover.

    When Ford pledged its assets as collateral for that huge loan, it included Volvo among those assets. Land Rover and Jaguar were not included.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,693
    Oh I think they are just playing hard to get. Besides, they may have no choice in the matter.

    Just Visiting
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Yeah, I could see them seeking out an equity partner to buy into Volvo. Ford only owns something like 30% of Mazda, but that's enough to get things done. Selling Volvo outright would be sticky, since it uses a Mazda platform for its small cars, gives Ford a platform for their big cars, some Euro Fords use Volvo engines, etc.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover are integrated now with the LR2/Freelander 2.

    Land Rover and Volvo worked together to make the engine and some of the platform. The platform of the LR2 is partially shared with the new S80 and will be mostly shared with the upcoming XC60 SUV. The LR2/Freelander 2 is being built at Halewood a Jaguar factory.

    Jag and Land Rover are even more heavily integrated. You CANNOT sell one with out the other.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,403
    FoMoCo should keep Volvo Jag and LR and sell Ford, Mercury and Lincoln. :P
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    I have actually been thinking about that in the "Does America Need its Own Automakers" thread.

    Ford europe is profitable and so is Ford in most of the rest of the world. Volvo makes money along with Land Rover. Their share in Mazda makes them a little money too. It is just Jaguar and the US for division that is in trouble.

    Give up on domestic built Fords except for their Trucks and maybe the mustang plus one midsized sedan. Toss lincoln/mercury and the rest of Ford cars in the trash. Then either spin Jag off or use the money saved from dumping your losing domestic operations to finally fix it.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,693
    That's pretty funny :P

    Just Visiting.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I posted this in the "Is Ford's End Right Behind Chrysler's?" thread, but I'll start again :surprise:

    Why can't FoMoCo take Jaguar, Land Rover, and Volvo, create a new entity entitled whatever they like ("Premier Automotive Group" sounds good though) and then hire an investment bank to do an IPO. Ford could retain, say, 30 or 40% ownership in the new company, while selling off the other 60-70% to either wall street or private equity. That way, Ford could raise cash to help with product development across the board and limit its Jaguar liability while still having access to Volvo/Land Rover platforms, profits, and know-how albeit on a smaller scale.

    That's my favorite option; If Ford does decide to sell something outright, it should be Jaguar/Land Rover. Both brands are heavily integrated, and although Volvo is integrated with Land Rover, it is not integrated with Jaguar and the Land Rover/Volvo relationship could be easily unwound over time, with Volvo getting it's 3.2L engine back, and Land Rover getting it's Freelander 2/LR2 platform back. (along the lines of BMW/Land Rover a few years ago with the development of the Range Rover)

    Volvo should be kept at all costs; it has been highly profitable over the years and Ford could benefit (and is benefiting) from the safety technology that Volvo has.

    Land Rover should be kept also, but since it is integrated with Jaguar, Ford would be wise to just let go.

    Any opinions on that IPO I mentioned above?
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,693
    Nice idea but who in his right mind would invest in shares of Jaguar or Rover? :sick:

    Visiting Host
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think the key would be throwing Volvo in the deal; people may not invest in Jag or Rover, but they may invest in Volvo :)

    Without Volvo, I'm guessing the crowd that would buy shares would probably be the private equity crowd anyways, so why not limit them to only 60-70% of the new company?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 16,916
    i also mentioned Ford selling Ford in some thread somewhere.

    i think its the best option.

    why sell 2 of your brands that are actually making money?? Kind of reminds me of watching the Phillies growing up. It got to the point where we'd see a good new player on the team and say, "yeah, they'll sell him soon." It seems that some companies just don't want to win.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '08 Town&Country

  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Makes you wonder how bad off Ford thinks Jag is if they are willing to sell two profitable business units in order to get rid of it.

    Obviously the domestic auto industry is more addicted to incentives then we ever thought.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,161
    I'm certainly not a fan of lumbering SUV's, and in the day of 3, possibly 4 dollar per gallon gas, I wouldn't be waiting in line to buy a 5 ton tank just to get around in but...

    I think Ford could be surprised if they marketed a Jag SUV based off the Volvo XC90 or even better the upcoming XC50 platform. I know it sounds redundant but think of it this way: call it an "T-type" for "Terrain" or something, make it about the size of an X3, five seater with reflexes of the Infiniti FX. Give it the corporate 3.5l duratec, and maybe an optional diesel like the one being developed for the next F-series. Throw everything but the kitchen sink at it, Bluetooth, ESP, RSC, Sat. Navigation, etc. Then maybe a Yamaha V8 "R" version down the road. Give it a 5/60 comprehensive warranty, all maintainence included and the overseas delivery like Volvo offers.

    I don't know, sounds crazy but I think with proper updates every 2 years like the Germans, it could be a cash cow for Ford. At least bring in some kind of cash for future investments...

    Just an idea.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Sorry don't mean to insult but that is a bad idea.

    People were up in arms when jag got a rebadged mondeo for the X-type with a corporate ford V6. Imagine how mad they would be if you gave Jag a SUV, something that was never supposed to happen, and then it was just a re-badged Volvo with another corporate Ford V6 engine.

    Bad, bad, bad idea.

    Oh and European delivery doesn't work for Jag or Land Rover because they are made in England. All kinds of liability associated with Americans unfamiliar with driving on left side of the road anyway then also driving a LHD vehicle.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,161
    lol, yeah I thought so. All those points you made make sense, I never would have thought of them. Oh well.

    But the X-type, I don't think it was a flop because it was not a "Real Jag". Hell, I remember the mags were raving about it when it was announced, and I don't remember any criticisms about using Ford underpinnings. The Mondeo was and still is a well respected sedan that had the unfortunate "dumbing down" syndrome when it came to the states as the Contour/Mystake. Plus the car was just plain dorky looking....

    But the X-type seemed to have the opportunity to succeed under the same formula. I thought it was overpriced when it came out sure, but I drove a 3.0 back to back with a 328i and the car was well mannered. Only thing "too Ford" in it was the interior and switch gear. It was just too easy to pick it apart. But the S-type had that same issue as well...

    I guess if Ford didn't meddle in the design and build of a new Jag SUV, it could have a chance. I know it would NEVER happen though.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,693
    I've always had this pet theory which I know I know annoys a lot of Jaguar lovers, but I think Jaguar went astray in the 1970s--justified perhaps by the need to survive. When Jaguar abandoned its heritage as a) a sports car maker and b) an affordable car for middle-class people (not a luxury marque), by producing the XJ6 land barge, they really blew it. Yes, they made money on the XJ6 but the karma caught up with them.

    Had they gone the way of Porsche, they could have had sports cars and the lux image in one basket.
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