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To whom would YOU sell Rover, Volvo, Jaguar?

Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
edited March 11 in Volvo
It's a badly-kept secret that Ford is itching to unload Volvo, Jaguar and Rover.

Problem is, even Ford isn't sure who it wants to sell these entities to. Jaguar and Rover are quite inter-related and share a lot of resources, but Volvo is pretty independent.

If you were in charge, to whom would you sell each of these three prestige brands? Other automakers? An outside investment group? Domestic or overseas? Would you sell them all to one buyer (unlikely but hey, you're in charge!) or group them or parcel them out?

What seems logical and smart to you?

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Comments

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    would be the smartest thing here. Jag and LR, sure sell them off as a package deal. But Volvo and Mazda have been the best investments Ford has made, both have been utilized in Ford products with great success. I mean look at how Saab ended up, now THERE'S a model of how not to run an aquisition... On the contrary, Ford has done an excellent job with Volvo.

    Sell the other two to Hyundai, they seem like they could use a luxury marque or two and Land Rover offroad knowledge could be helpful.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Volvo's not going to be easily unwound from Ford now, so they might as well hang onto it. Jaguar and RR can go to whoever is willing to pay for them; probably some outfit in China that would otherwise put out Zhagulas and Rang Whoas.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    So you think Volvo will end up being a partnership deal between Ford and someone else....a co-ownership?

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  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    ...say that Ford is not exploring the sale of Volvo, just Jaguar and Land Rover.

    When Ford pledged its assets as collateral for that huge loan, it included Volvo among those assets. Land Rover and Jaguar were not included.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    Oh I think they are just playing hard to get. Besides, they may have no choice in the matter.

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  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Yeah, I could see them seeking out an equity partner to buy into Volvo. Ford only owns something like 30% of Mazda, but that's enough to get things done. Selling Volvo outright would be sticky, since it uses a Mazda platform for its small cars, gives Ford a platform for their big cars, some Euro Fords use Volvo engines, etc.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover are integrated now with the LR2/Freelander 2.

    Land Rover and Volvo worked together to make the engine and some of the platform. The platform of the LR2 is partially shared with the new S80 and will be mostly shared with the upcoming XC60 SUV. The LR2/Freelander 2 is being built at Halewood a Jaguar factory.

    Jag and Land Rover are even more heavily integrated. You CANNOT sell one with out the other.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,634
    FoMoCo should keep Volvo Jag and LR and sell Ford, Mercury and Lincoln. :P

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    I have actually been thinking about that in the "Does America Need its Own Automakers" thread.

    Ford europe is profitable and so is Ford in most of the rest of the world. Volvo makes money along with Land Rover. Their share in Mazda makes them a little money too. It is just Jaguar and the US for division that is in trouble.

    Give up on domestic built Fords except for their Trucks and maybe the mustang plus one midsized sedan. Toss lincoln/mercury and the rest of Ford cars in the trash. Then either spin Jag off or use the money saved from dumping your losing domestic operations to finally fix it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    That's pretty funny :P

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  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I posted this in the "Is Ford's End Right Behind Chrysler's?" thread, but I'll start again :surprise:

    Why can't FoMoCo take Jaguar, Land Rover, and Volvo, create a new entity entitled whatever they like ("Premier Automotive Group" sounds good though) and then hire an investment bank to do an IPO. Ford could retain, say, 30 or 40% ownership in the new company, while selling off the other 60-70% to either wall street or private equity. That way, Ford could raise cash to help with product development across the board and limit its Jaguar liability while still having access to Volvo/Land Rover platforms, profits, and know-how albeit on a smaller scale.

    That's my favorite option; If Ford does decide to sell something outright, it should be Jaguar/Land Rover. Both brands are heavily integrated, and although Volvo is integrated with Land Rover, it is not integrated with Jaguar and the Land Rover/Volvo relationship could be easily unwound over time, with Volvo getting it's 3.2L engine back, and Land Rover getting it's Freelander 2/LR2 platform back. (along the lines of BMW/Land Rover a few years ago with the development of the Range Rover)

    Volvo should be kept at all costs; it has been highly profitable over the years and Ford could benefit (and is benefiting) from the safety technology that Volvo has.

    Land Rover should be kept also, but since it is integrated with Jaguar, Ford would be wise to just let go.

    Any opinions on that IPO I mentioned above?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    Nice idea but who in his right mind would invest in shares of Jaguar or Rover? :sick:

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  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think the key would be throwing Volvo in the deal; people may not invest in Jag or Rover, but they may invest in Volvo :)

    Without Volvo, I'm guessing the crowd that would buy shares would probably be the private equity crowd anyways, so why not limit them to only 60-70% of the new company?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,424
    i also mentioned Ford selling Ford in some thread somewhere.

    i think its the best option.

    why sell 2 of your brands that are actually making money?? Kind of reminds me of watching the Phillies growing up. It got to the point where we'd see a good new player on the team and say, "yeah, they'll sell him soon." It seems that some companies just don't want to win.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Makes you wonder how bad off Ford thinks Jag is if they are willing to sell two profitable business units in order to get rid of it.

    Obviously the domestic auto industry is more addicted to incentives then we ever thought.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    I'm certainly not a fan of lumbering SUV's, and in the day of 3, possibly 4 dollar per gallon gas, I wouldn't be waiting in line to buy a 5 ton tank just to get around in but...

    I think Ford could be surprised if they marketed a Jag SUV based off the Volvo XC90 or even better the upcoming XC50 platform. I know it sounds redundant but think of it this way: call it an "T-type" for "Terrain" or something, make it about the size of an X3, five seater with reflexes of the Infiniti FX. Give it the corporate 3.5l duratec, and maybe an optional diesel like the one being developed for the next F-series. Throw everything but the kitchen sink at it, Bluetooth, ESP, RSC, Sat. Navigation, etc. Then maybe a Yamaha V8 "R" version down the road. Give it a 5/60 comprehensive warranty, all maintainence included and the overseas delivery like Volvo offers.

    I don't know, sounds crazy but I think with proper updates every 2 years like the Germans, it could be a cash cow for Ford. At least bring in some kind of cash for future investments...

    Just an idea.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Sorry don't mean to insult but that is a bad idea.

    People were up in arms when jag got a rebadged mondeo for the X-type with a corporate ford V6. Imagine how mad they would be if you gave Jag a SUV, something that was never supposed to happen, and then it was just a re-badged Volvo with another corporate Ford V6 engine.

    Bad, bad, bad idea.

    Oh and European delivery doesn't work for Jag or Land Rover because they are made in England. All kinds of liability associated with Americans unfamiliar with driving on left side of the road anyway then also driving a LHD vehicle.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    lol, yeah I thought so. All those points you made make sense, I never would have thought of them. Oh well.

    But the X-type, I don't think it was a flop because it was not a "Real Jag". Hell, I remember the mags were raving about it when it was announced, and I don't remember any criticisms about using Ford underpinnings. The Mondeo was and still is a well respected sedan that had the unfortunate "dumbing down" syndrome when it came to the states as the Contour/Mystake. Plus the car was just plain dorky looking....

    But the X-type seemed to have the opportunity to succeed under the same formula. I thought it was overpriced when it came out sure, but I drove a 3.0 back to back with a 328i and the car was well mannered. Only thing "too Ford" in it was the interior and switch gear. It was just too easy to pick it apart. But the S-type had that same issue as well...

    I guess if Ford didn't meddle in the design and build of a new Jag SUV, it could have a chance. I know it would NEVER happen though.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    I've always had this pet theory which I know I know annoys a lot of Jaguar lovers, but I think Jaguar went astray in the 1970s--justified perhaps by the need to survive. When Jaguar abandoned its heritage as a) a sports car maker and b) an affordable car for middle-class people (not a luxury marque), by producing the XJ6 land barge, they really blew it. Yes, they made money on the XJ6 but the karma caught up with them.

    Had they gone the way of Porsche, they could have had sports cars and the lux image in one basket.

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,424
    interesting theory. Only now Porsche is making SUVs and sedans. So who is following whom?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    Old Brit badged cars and nothing more than a memory to most people. If they were worth keeping why do the Germans and Americans now own them? I wasn't interested in letting Saab die enough to oppose GM buying them but now i am beginning to agree with Nippon we should simply have let them die. Rover and Jag are in the same boat. They have lost whatever personality they once had and should simply be melded into some generic brand called Car or Truck. Volvo once had a reputation for safety and dependability. Now they are not known for either. Sell them to Hyundai if someone wants the names don't mean much anymore. Yes us old times remember their glory days but much like George Foreman those days are long gone and their name is the only thing of worth. There is little chance of them gaining in value over the next few years so selling them now makes a lot of financial sense.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    Well the difference is that Porsche is a sports car maker selling SUVs and Jaguar is a sedan maker selling sedans that nobody wants.

    I don't think Porsche even knows Jaguar exists, or cares. Not their competition.

    Jaguar competes with Benz and Lexus and perhaps Acura. I don't think BMW buyers and Jaguar buyers cross-shop all that much (just a guess).

    I certainly wouldn't want to compete with Acura, Benz and Lexus. Talk about a tough neighborhood.

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,424
    oh, i agree.

    but it seemed you were saying jag, back when they WERE making sportscars, should have followed porsche and continued on that path instead of turning to sedans. yet I now see porsche kind of taking that route. you would THINK porsche won't turn their backs on the sportscars .... BUT ... I might have thought the same thing of jag if I had been around during their heyday.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,185
    ...going nuts over Jaguars are women. There will sure be a lot of disappointed ladies if Jaguar goes under. I couldn't pry my girlfriend out of the XJ8 at the Philly Auto Show this past February.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    That's true what you say lemko....women in Jaguars going shopping....I'm sure it's a stereotype, but like many stereotypes, there's a grain of truth in it.

    That might explain the low mileages on Jaguars. How far is the mall? Or can a Jaguar actually attain high mileage?

    RE: Jaguar's Path:

    Yes, I think Jaguar should have stuck to sports cars like Porsche did. Porsche STILL doesn't build a sedan after all. I think Porsche thought longterm and Jaguar short-term. Porsche went "niche" at high profit per unit, Jaguar went mass-market at low or no profit per unit sedan.

    I mean, we are talking about a company that used to win LeMans when Corvette or Porsche couldn't.

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  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Porsche will build a sedan in a couple of years though...

    The aluminum bodied XJs and XKs can get outstanding mileage when they have a chance to stretch their legs. I am sure they could do better with a more advanced engine. The AJV8 is a bit long in the tooth now.

    If Ford does sell them they better retain a 20 or 30 percent interest in Jag/LR. If they don't they will truly be sorry.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,424
    well, you can mark me down as a man who goes nuts over Jag. The new XK is gorgeous, IMHO.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    I had a convertible come in yesterday. She was picking up her Range Rover and drove up in a white XK with her husband.

    Man that is a stunning car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,021
    Yeah but have you driven them? They really don't live up to their looks at all. I was really let down by the car. I mean, it was very smooth, luxurious, fast, etc....but it's really just another Lexus SC430. It's not a sports car. I think the XKs are pretty boring for real "drivers", to be honest. Just my two cents.

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