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timing belt replacement?

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,665
    Honda keeps things pretty quiet as far as upcoming changes go. I guess they believe in selling what's in stock now.

    I've seen some artist renditions of what the new Civic might look like, but these are usually off base. The Accords are too far down the road.

    And, when the new Civic arrives, some will like the changes while others will ask why we screwed it up! I've heard that it'll look more "german".

    Guess we will find out!
  • tarmantarman Posts: 12
    The timing belt broke on my 1990 Toyota Corolla last week. After having the belt replaced, my car broke down again several days later. After ruling out a possible faulty belt, my mechanic believes that the valves may have been damaged. After reading the posts here, I'm under the impression that the Corolla has a non-interference engine. Could the valves/cylinder head/or pistons been damaged any way? Visual inspection hasn't revealed anything...the cylinder head is being sent to the machine shop right now. If it is one of the valves, then my mechanic quoted the repair job at $800--$180 for the new valve, $200 for the head gasket, and $400 for labor. Is this in the ballpark (the parts seem expensive to me--carparts.com lists the head gasket at around $40)? Any advice/help is appreciated,
    Chris
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    I think is time for a new car. I wouldn't never drop that kind of money on a 10 year old car. Timing belt damage is something not to take lightly.

    Just my .2 cents
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Posts: 647
    Check on line at places like carparts.com or just call your Toyota dealer. The mechanic is probably replacing all of the valves, but the head gasket price seems high at $200. They certainly cost more than an oil pan gasket, but $200 seems high.

    Are you sure he did not say gasket set. Head gasket plus other gaskets for the top end of the engine.

    Cheers,

    TB
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,665
    As I understand things, Toyotas have non interference engines. Valve damage should not have happened.

    Also, no valve is 180.00, and 200.00 for a head gasket is a joke.

    Find an honest mechanic!
  • tarmantarman Posts: 12
    From what I researched on Carparts.com, head gaskets were around $40 and intake/exhaust valves ran about $10-15. The mechanic did not imply that the price was for a gasket set (which still would not be $200) nor did he say that he was replacing all of the valves (I highly doubt that all of the valves were damaged). I will call him today to ask for a price clarification...If I don't get satisfactory answers from the guy, then I will have to tow the car and its parts elsewhere in LA. Not a fun prospect...

    Regarding the non-interference question...most Toyotas don't have an interference engine, but I did notice on one of the sites provided in this topic that the 1.8 DOHC engine was one--I believe this is the engine in the 1990 Corolla. Can anyone confirm this?

    Teo, I would love to be able to get a new(er) car but I just bought a brand new Trooper last fall and don't have the money to buy another car. Maybe by the end of the year...in the meantime, I'm stuck with this car as our second car. By the way, the car has 123k miles on it (not bad for a 10 yr old car)--timing belt was replaced at 70k--thought I had a few more miles to go before replacing the second one.

    Thanks for your help guys,
    Chris
  • kmagkmag Posts: 98
    The timing belt shredded itself a few weeks ago at 75K miles. Towed to the local Olds dealer, next day and $1100 later, engine is running again. Dealer say this is the normal replacement cost! 10.8 hrs. of labor and a bunch of gaskets also required. Beware anyone with this engine, GM 3.4 DOHC V6 from the early 90s also used in Grand Prix & Monte Carlo. I will be selling the car before replacing it again.
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    This powerplant was a total disaster and taken off production during the 1994 model year. Essentially, this engine was "transformed" from a basic OHV "Pushrod" to an OHC design....you know the rest of the story.

    The current 3.4L OHV V-6 GM engine is in no way related to the pedestrian 3.4L DOHC of the early 1990's. In fact the new 3.4L OHV has proven to be very reliable so far.

    And the 3.5L DOHC V-6 "Shortstar" (exclusive to the Olds Intrigue)is also an excellent performing engine and a far cry from GM's early attempts at DOHC in the 1990's.
  • Let's see... if you read the owner's manual, recommended belt replacement is 60K miles, not drive it 'til it breaks. I had mine replaced at the interval (63K), and was set back $526, which included a new belt AND the two plastic idler pulleys. It would have been about $100 cheaper w/o the pulleys, but they are a wear item just like the belt.

    In fact, the Pontiac service manager remarked it was the first time in a while that he had seen a worn belt NOT broken. (and it was a black rat's nest under the cam covers) Why? People are rolling the dice or not abiding by the maint. intervals. Well, a $500-600 cost difference tends to make think otherwise about stretching it (no pun intended).

    I disagree this engine is a "disaster". Aside from an alternator replaced at 36K miles (since when has GM made a reliable one?), and this timing belt, my bought-new daily-driver '93 GP w/3.4 w/every toy has had zero unscheduled maint. Just periodic fluid/filter changes (air/oil/coolant/trans./brake), spark plugs/wires - and it doesn't leak or burn any oil.

    If anything, the engine/tranny is trouble-free, I love how it hits the 4-5K sweet spot when passing/merging on the highway, and it's quick off the line. OK, the heavy 2-doors have sagged, and the rear disc brakes are afflicted with poor slider design, but overall, this car has been joy to own.
  • ataieataie Posts: 84
    thinking about buying a VW GTI VR6, and need to know if these have timing belt or chain.

    thanks,
    Shon
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    Anyone have a good concept of when to replace a timing belt when the mileage is low. I have a 97 with only 12,000 miles on it, think the belt will last 6 years before it starts to dry rot??? There never seems to be a mention of age, just mileage on these belts.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    I don't think time is all that important. My '80 Volvo 240's belt was last changed ten years ago (68,000 miles ago).
  • viktoria_rviktoria_r Posts: 103
    I have a 95 Chevy Monte Carlo LS (3.1 V-6)that was a 'demo'. I bought it from an out-of-town dealer. Only later I realized that the Owner manual was missing. I changed serpentine belt once (at about 40K), because the tech said it was not tight enough. The car has 82K mi on it now. does anyone know if I should change the belt? What is the criteria that will tell me when to do it? (mileage, interval, etc). Thanks!
  • It's a cam chain, not a belt, on that model engine (3.1). The 3.4 DOHC V-6, which was optional in some Monte Carlo LS's and standard in all Z34 models, has a timing belt which requires replacement every 60K miles.
  • viktoria_rviktoria_r Posts: 103
    are you saying it does not need to be replaced every 60k or so miles?
  • Honda recommends replacing the timing belt at least every 6 years. Don't know about other mfgs.
  • What's making my 73,000 miles so far honda accord ex 1992 squeal after it's been run 5 miles??? It'll do it in park first (like when waiting at a drive up window) then it'll do it when shifting out of park and into drive. The really weird thing is - it only'l do it after it's warmed up / so far nothing else has happend yet. Like sometimes I'll drive to KFC to eat and it'll be fine in line pulling up parking etc. but by the time I get back home (about 5 miles away) it'll be ready to squeal again when I put it in park to get the paper. Then I'll put it in drive to pull into the garage and it'll squeal then too all the way to the garage. I don't trust this situation. What's it sound like to you? Help!
  • bnormannbnormann Posts: 335
    Fred,

    The squealing you hear is NOT the timing belt. It is either one of your other (non-timing) belts (V-Belts) or it is an idler pulley that has a bad bearing.

    Bruce
  • butch11butch11 Posts: 153
    Fred-if your alternator drive belt is squealing-either tighten it or if it is worn-replace it. A loose alternator drive belt will burn out an alternator asap-I speak from experience-they get hot and bye bye diodes. Also do not over tighten the alternator drive belt-can wreck the bearings.

    A squalling power steering belt has a longer fuse but should be fixed.
  • butch11butch11 Posts: 153
    Called around to various Honda dealers to replace the valve timing belt, AC/alternator/PS drive belts, balance shaft belts and balance shaft seals and the price ranged from $389 to $ 650 +.

    Some of those service departments said they would not change the timing belt without replacing the water pump. Got one honest guy-said he never replaces the water pump unless it needs replacing.

    Am at 105K now and will replace the belt when get to around 140K-maybe 150. Do not waste bandwidth telling me this is a mistake-all highway miles means the belt will probably be good to 200K and I know it is an interference engine.
  • pat455pat455 Posts: 603
    It doesn't sound like you are looking for any advice at the moment, but I just wanted to mention this in case you didn't know. We have an experienced and very helpful Honda tech hanging out in Honda Accord Problems Part 2 - if you want to, you could ask or discuss with him any of these things. He posts under the name of auburn63.

    Pat
    Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
  • pat455pat455 Posts: 603
    You also may want to follow the link I just posted in #114 in case you want to discuss this with auburn63.

    Pat
    Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
  • bblahabblaha Posts: 329
    I'm afraid I don't understand. Exactly how do highway miles differ from "city" miles wrt the timing belt?
  • butch11butch11 Posts: 153
    do the math-if you drive 90% in town and your average speed is say 25 mph versus 90 % on the road at 65 mph, the engine RPM will be about the same but the number of total engine rpm's and hours of operation will be more than doubled.
  • joe111joe111 Posts: 28
    Your theory on city driving vs. highway driving is very interesting. I can see where you could have probably twice the mileage on a belt if nearly all your driving is done on the highway(with a comparable number of hours on the belt if most of your driving is city). Too bad cars don't come with hour meters like airplanes or tractors,because hours of use would be more appropriate than just mileage. Honda probably doesn't look at it your way but I think you have a valid point.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,665
    You will *probably* be fine. If not, you will only have yourself (and your theory) to blame!

    It's only money, after all!

    And, to not replace your water pump while you are in there is false economy in my book. It is exposed and takes nothing to replace since everything is already apart.

    How long will that "good" pump last? Another 100,000 miles.? Pretty doubtful.

    With my luck, if I didn't change it, it would start leaking the following month!
  • bblahabblaha Posts: 329
    Ok. I'll buy that somewhat. There certainly will be more engine revolutions in city driving than in highway driving, per mile. However, that not the whole picture. Getting up to highway speeds requires higher engine rpm (and therefore higher stress on the belt) than typical city driving. On average, there probably is more wear on a belt that sees mostly city driving though.

    I guess I just don't see the advantage of trying to squeeze out a few extra miles. $500 every 60000 miles is CHEAP! Owning a car, insuring a car, and fueling a car is expensive. Maintaining one is not.
  • butch11butch11 Posts: 153
    Calling the service managers to get a quote for timing belt replacement at 6 different Honda Dealerships was interesting. The guys who said they always replaced the water pump had the highest price for the replacement of the timing belt, drive belt and balancer shaft belts and seals.

    The two service managers who had the lowest prices also said they only replaced the water pumps when they had indications of problems and that this was a very rare event. Also it is very interesting to note the always replace the water pump guys had the highest prices for replacing the pump.

    There are honest people in the car business-you just gotta search around to find them. Unfortunately most of them are in the business of relieving you of as much of your cash as possible.
  • Had the timing belt on my 91 Accord replaced at 85k miles by one of the shops that recommended not replacing the water pump. Guess what? The water pump started leaking at 105k miles. Had to have it replaced and paid the labor over again. From now on when the timing belt is replaced a new water pump goes on.

    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure in my book.
  • I don't know why that shop didn't reccomend a water pump change with the belt change. In my experience with driving cars for over 40 years, a waterpump generally goes about 100,000 miles. I had the water pump changed in my 90 Accord at 90,000 miles with the timing belt. I'll never know how long the original water pump would have lasted, but that was a logical time to change it. I guess you'll have to chalk it up to live and learn silvercoupe. Good luck
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