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Outlander vs CX-7 vs Tribeca

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Comments

  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    what web site and whart stars???
  • rcpaxrcpax Posts: 580
    So who does this prediction? And explain to me why a CR-V or a RAV-4, or CX-7 would rate better than an 07 Outlander. What gives them the right to devaluate the Outlander when it's one of the safest SUV in the world, has most bang for the buck. And just because it's not a Toyota or Honda, it's only rated 2 stars? As I see it, residual value is nothing more than what other people "estimate" the value of your vehicle would be after X years, which is bullcrap if you ask me. If I maintain my vehicle well, and it's in top condition with less mileage than average, then it should sell at a better price than KBB's "guesstimate" of its residual value.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Usually companies that run auctions, or publish auction values for vehicles. They do have a say in what they are worth.

    A reason why Mitsu have low residuals could be attributed to the fact that many mitsu's in past years have not held up so well. Also, the brand does not possess an over all demand that Honda and Toyota generally demand. In the industry, used Mitus's are undesirable, with the exception of a Eclipse Spyder, or the previous Eclipse GS-T/GS-X. There was also a threat of Mitsu leaving the country in the last couple of years.

    If I maintain my vehicle well, and it's in top condition with less mileage than average, then it should sell at a better price than KBB's "guesstimate" of its residual value.

    I hate to break it to you, but, KBB's values are worthless, and hold no real world value. I have never sold a vehicle for what KBB said it was worth. Their values are based on nothing. They do not buy, or sell vehicles, so, how can they tell you what they are worth?
  • rcpaxrcpax Posts: 580
    So in a sense, from what I understand from your post, I am right in saying that "residual value" is what other people think your vehicle is worth, based mostly on the "demand" of the buyers. I will agree Mitsubishi has been in the dumps when it was mismanaged by some people in the past. That "going out of business" is only a rumor. No crazy automaker will pullout from a market as big as N.A. while there's still options for recovery. Mitsubishi, though not as big as Toyota or Honda, still has substantial market share on its own. They're doing good now, and is expected to do better with the Evo X and Lancer Ralliart to be released soon. These vehicles are 100% made in Japan. Most of the problematic vehicles that Mitsubishi headaches are the ones made in the US during the DCX-Mitsu partnership, but that's history.

    And yes I will agree with you KBB values are worthless, but the general public still look to them for appraisal values of their trade-in, and the dealer makes even cheaper quotes.

    That's why, for me, I maintain my vehicle well, got one of the best warranties (10 yr for powertrain), and I have every intent to drive it until the wheels fall off :D
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Yes. People unassociated with the company dictate what it is worth. The only residual value the company can dictate is the one they designate for a lease value. Nissan used to put extremely high residuals on their vehicles for leasing, and it cost them big time when they took them back. They were not worth what they took them back for.

    If you are planing on driving an Outlander until the wheels fall off, then there is no reason to think about what the residual value might be. By then, it's not worth anything, anyways!

    Mitsu has been making a come back. They do make decent vehicles as well. The new Lancer and Outlander have really helped. They just need to get the Galant back on track, and they should do well. Mitsubishi right now is where Mazda was back in 2001-2003. They needed a new company philosophy, and look what it has done for them. Mazda is really striving, making money, and putting out a great product.
  • dodo2dodo2 Posts: 496
    I, too, see Mitsubishi somehow following Mazda's strategy: build attractive cars and the sales will follow. I bought a Mazda3 2.3L back in 2005 because it looked great and it was the best bang for the buck by far. I felt about the same when I bought my Outlander.
    If Mitsu continues to improve its line-up and the build quality of their vehicles (get rid of the low budget bits), they will succeed. I hope the Outlander and the Lancer are only the beginning of a new direction and I tend to believe this is the real Mitsubishi, without Chrysler's (bad) influence.
    However, it will take few years of sustained effort and good products across the board until they could really see a significant change in the market perception. Mazda's success didn't happen over night either.
    Mitsubishi needs a new Galant, Eclipse, Endeavor and they need to bring over the Colt (subcompact) and perhaps the Grandis (mini-minivan).
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    Read the magazine reviews on 08 tribeca. it is far superior performing vehicle than most SUVs with most effective AWD.

    I honestly think CX-7 and Outlander don't even come close.
  • rcpaxrcpax Posts: 580
    I stopped reading magazine reviews a long time ago. I can never trust a guy who earns a living reviewing the products of a company that pays for their products to be reviewed. The only review I trust is my own. I've test driven most of the 07 Outlander's closest competitors (among them RAV4, CRV, CX-7), and nothing comes close to the handling, IMO anyways.

    The 08 Tribeca, similarly equipped with the 07 Outlander XLS with Navi etc, easily costs 36K$. No thanks, I'll stick with the Outlander XLS for 30.6K$ sticker, which I got for 28K$ (some buyers got it for 26K$). It's really nice to say that X is better than Y, but I don't really take opinions seriously from people who are not in the market for a new SUV. Testimonials from actual buyers of the Outlander can attest to the words "most bang for the buck". See here: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0fda72.f0fda3a/552
    And in the Japanese market, the Outlander outsold the RAV-4 and CRV for a few months in a row after its debut. I didn't even see the Tribeca being named as a serious competitor in the SUV segment in Japan. But that's just my 0.02$ worth. I know some people are passionate for a particular brand and model, same as I am. :)
  • chelentanochelentano Posts: 634
    >> 08 tribeca. it is far superior performing vehicle than most SUVs with most effective AWD

    What’s so superior? Still only 5-speed outdated transmission, horrible gas mileage, only half of Mitsubishi’s warranty, no Auto-AWD mode, no FAST Key, no Keyless Start, no MP3 music server, only 130 watt stereo (vs. 650 watt on Outlander), and no Bluetooth!

    Here is the Zdnet review of Tribeca: “we weren't pleased with the fuel economy. With the seven-passenger configuration, legroom was cramped in the middle row. As an alternative, the Land Rover LR2 costs about the same, and gives you off-road capabilities and Bluetooth cell phone integration. We recently reviewed the Mitsubishi Outlander, which costs substantially less, has more cabin tech, and gets better mileage.”

    Also the superiority of Subaru’s AWD system is a myth. Do you have any hard data to support your claim? Any independent tests or rally results? Mitsubishi for instance does have the best record in the world toughest off-road completion, which requires really good AWD system. Last year Mitsubishi won 1st place (7th year in a row) and 2nd place in 2007 Dakar Rally, while Subaru did not even made the top 50.
  • dodo2dodo2 Posts: 496
    "I honestly think CX-7 and Outlander don't even come close. "

    They don't come close because they belong to different class; therefore any comparison is empty talk.

    While Subaru has a great AWD system, so does Mitsubishi. A comparison between the two manufacturers' AWD systems depends on the application. The results may vary, so saying that one AWD system is absolutely better than the other may not be true.

    Subaru vs. Mitsubishi battle will take place in the compact sport sedan class: Impreza WRX vs. Lancer Ralliart and Impreza WRX STi vs. Lancer Evo X and it will be a very interesting one. So far, Mitsubishi seems to win the "beauty contest".
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I really don't consider CX-7 in the same class as the Tribeca, although they do have similarities. The CX-9 is more in the same class as the Tribeca, and the CX-9 is superior to the Tribeca in many ways. Passenger room (by far!), standard features, HP, handling, acceleration, breaking, styling (which is subjective). The Subi does have a more advanced AWD system, but, it does not always translate into better handling. Read the Mazdaspeed6 vs Legacy GT Spec B comparo. The Speed6 out handles the GT, by far. Both of those vehicles utilize the same AWD systems in their SUV's.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    superior as in ride quality, fit & finish, safety rating etc. and not in extra features.

    Yes, subaru AWD is superior, hard data is my practical experience with driving in 2 major blizzards - most cars with AWD/4WDs were spinning while i was cruising. In fact, the most cars on the road that day were subarus. I never shovelled my Outback -no matter how much snow there is. go to youtube.com and see some videos of subaru performing in bad weather.

    you may quote ZDNet on car reviews (frankly they are not well known for cars as much they are for computers). i would like to quote you caranddriver triebca review saying if you close your eyes and drive you would swear that you are driving an X5.

    And subarus last forever - 95% of all subarus sold in the last 10 years still on road. The only brand with every model line with maximum safety raing in its class.

    i have owned subarus since 1994. I also owned a gallant in late 90s - i will never go back to mitsubishi because of my experience with the gallant.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    i agree. they are not the same. i looked at CX-9 closely, though being an SUV, it drives like minivan. i owned an MPV which traded-in for tribeca became so bad in 5 years with only 40k miles on it - my wife would never allow me to go back to mazda.

    subarus are well built cars and you can see it when it is aging - after 4-5 years. it will run like new
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "Yes, subaru AWD is superior, hard data is my practical experience with driving in 2 major blizzards"

    Actually, your practical experience would be considered anecdotal at best - not hard data that was collected by professionals under controlled tests.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    and we count gadgets & extra features, here are some that only Tribeca offers and most competitors don;t:

    1. ambient lighting inside cabin
    2. puddle lights
    3. subaru backed extended warranty & not some unknown players who claim backruptcy in 2 years
    4. wiper deicer
    5. 6CD MP3 changer
    6. auto head lights off with ignition
    7. watch DVD on NAv screen
    8. daytime running lights
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    i looked at CX-9 closely, though being an SUV, it drives like minivan.

    Wow, you are the first to say that. It drives NOTHING like an MPV. Recent comparo's done by numerous third party companies said it is just sensational. Edmunds named it their "Most Wanted SUV under $35K". Motor Trend preferred it over the GMC Acadia and Acura MDX!

    Why would you even look at the CX-9 KNOWING your wife would never go for another Mazda? Sound like you were pre judgemental before you even looked at it.

    I happen to own both a 05 Mazda and a 02 Subaru. My Impreza has 64K on it, and I have had numerous problems to date: O2 sensor twice in the past 3 weeks, blew head gasket at around 50K, replaced fuel lines to to leakage (common problem with late model Subies) at 59K, heat shield fell off, replaced intake manifold due to crack at around 55-60K, tranny has a hard 2nd gear shift in which tranny flush did not help, cup holder broke, replaced clock at 62K due to center console electrical issue.

    Is the AWD good in snow? Yes. My Mazda6 can out corner it with ease on dry and wet pavement.

    Current problems with Mazda6 w/ 33K to date: None
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    and we count gadgets & extra features, here are some that only Tribeca offers and most competitors don;t:


    1. ambient lighting inside cabin

    Offered on the CX-9 and CX-7!

    3. subaru backed extended warranty & not some unknown players who claim backruptcy in 2 years

    Mazda has Easy Care, which is MEPP (Mazda Extended Protection Plan). In other words, a Mazda warranty.

    5. 6CD MP3 changer


    Place a check next to the CX-9 and CX-7!

    6. auto head lights off with ignition

    Not sure what this means? CX-7 and CX-9 have auto on and auto off headlights on GT trim.

    Why would you want a Nav system you can watch movies on? People in the back can't see it! Only the driver and passenger can. What is the point of that?
  • growwisegrowwise Posts: 297
    I'll have to say that best among the bunch mentioned above is the one that is fully paid off. If not, then that small econobox would be the best choice...
  • morey000morey000 Posts: 322
    sorry it took me so long to reply. I don't check the board all that often.

    the web site I was referring to was the Automotive Lease Guide, but I think that it got cut from the forum as they don't always allow direct links. But, look for ALG dot com.

    I'll try again here:
    https://www.alg.com/deprratings.aspx?sid=43
  • css1css1 Posts: 247
    Blizzards ARE unpredictable. For this kind of driving I wouldn't put my life in the hands of techs and controlled tests.

    Subaru IS an AWD company - Standard on every car. For Mazda AWD is an option like Power windows.
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    I am not saying Subaru doesn't have the best AWD systems. However, the previous poster's "proof" was simply anecdotal. I once owned a Honda, the a/c compressor died at about 50K miles. That is not justification for me to say that all Honda a/c compressors are junk. Just because the other poster saw other AWD vehicles off the side of the road, means nothing. You have no way of knowing the skill set of the drivers of those vehicles, if the tires on those vehicles were suitable to such conditions, etc...

    "Subaru IS an AWD company - Standard on every car. For Mazda AWD is an option like Power windows."

    I think this is being a bit simplistic - obviously a lot more engineering goes into an AWD system than a power window. I have nothing against Subaru. I would just like to see some proof somewhere that their AWD systems are superior to Honda's SH-AWD, Mitsubishi's AWD (these guys have had a lot of rally success as well), and Mazda's. The only thing being brought to the table so far are anecdotes.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I would just like to see some proof somewhere that their AWD systems are superior to Honda's SH-AWD, Mitsubishi's AWD (these guys have had a lot of rally success as well), and Mazda's. The only thing being brought to the table so far are anecdotes.

    Very true. But, really, how can one tell who's AWD system is really "better"? You would have to take one vehicle, a Mitsu Outlander per say, and try it with each different AWD system to see which works better. AWD is not the only deciding factor in handling and road grip. Suspension, tires, wheel size, wheel base, engine power, etc.

    The one true road test that tested Subaru's AWD vs. Mazda's AWD was the Mazdaspeed6 vs. Legacy GT Spec B and the Mazdaspeed won hands down in cornering and road grip. But, like I said, there are other factors. There have also been tests stacking up the STi vs the EVO. Many have the EVO as the better road handler. Some have the STi.

    It is a know fact that there is more to Subaru's and Mitsu's AWD system then there is to Mazda's. This makes them more "advanced". But, the AWD system is worthless with out a well rounded vehicle to built on it. So, what it really comes down to is who makes the better "package deal". Just because Mitsu has won a bunch of rally championships, does that make Mitsu better? No. Just because Subaru has AWD in all their vehicles, does it make them better? No. It all comes down to what you prefer in your vehicle as a "package deal". It's tough to break it down part by part to say who is better.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    i can definetly speak to subaru's AWD. My neighbor has honda CRV 4wd and another has pathfinder 4wd. Both cars are well maintained & newer cars too.

    often times, when it snows hard, both the cars need showeling. i give them ride to work in my Outback..........how else will u say which AWD is better ?

    honda needs to be sued for using 4wd word on CRV and pilot and it is simply an electronic 4wd & not mechanical
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "honda needs to be sued for using 4wd word on CRV and pilot and it is simply an electronic 4wd & not mechanical "

    Huh? Are you refering to the fact that the CRV's 4wd system acts in "Real Time", versus having a dial, and having to manually select it? I don't understand your comment about "they need to be sued for using 4wd word". My understanding is that if the vehicle detects the main drive wheels slipping, it transfers power automatically to the other 2 wheels in order to help get the vehicle moving. This is no different that a driver of a traditional 4wd vehicle that can't get moving, and manually flips a switch to "turn on" the other 2 wheels. If the vehicle is able to send power to all 4 wheels, that is the definition of 4wd, and no law suit should be needed ;) . By the way, this system is controlled by hydraulics, not electronics (per the Honda website).

    With the Pilot, you can manually lock the rear differential for starting up in low traction situations. It can then manually stay locked up for up to 18mph (this is from Honda's website by the way).
  • css1css1 Posts: 247
    Yes I am being simplistic. Sometimes the answer is simplistic. Mazda is part of Ford, & Ford beancounters see black or white.

    That said, The CX7 and CX9 were not engineered with AWD as an integral part of their base drive train. Their great front drivers too.
    AWD is an option. The Ford 500, Oh Taurus, sorry, is the Mr. potatoe head of cars. It's a work in progress with sales #'s directing improvements and available options. If they were serious about AWD they would have carried over the S80 mechanicals in total.

    As Aviboy97 said in the post following your reply - Look at the whole pkg. - and Subaru's handeling incorporates not only on their AWD systems but on the engineering of the whole car. They use boxer engines to achieve a lower center of gravity, etc..

    I applaud Mitsubishi for not putting AWD into all their cars just to advertize "we have it too" It's engineered into select vehicles. I am not saying that their cars and trucks are not good or not safe.

    Mitsubishi will improve on the success of their EVO and Outlander, however, right now
    Subaru has been doing it longer - Their just better at it. It's that simple.

    Charlie
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "however, right now
    Subaru has been doing it longer - Their just better at it. It's that simple."

    Do you have any links to data proving your hypothesis, or just going with the "they have been doing it longer, so they must be better" theory?
  • css1css1 Posts: 247
    Please excuse my type-o's - I was in a hurrry.
  • css1css1 Posts: 247
    I have no data to prove my Hypothesis because I have no hypothesis.

    I base my statement on personal experience - and so does everyone else in this thread supporting Subaru.

    Let's say you wanted to purchase speakers for your audio Receiver. Nobody can hear what your ears hear. If you like a certain brand and model then it no longer matters what the specs are for that speaker.

    If, however, many other people also buy the same item , one can say that it is a better product, if not at least a great product.

    Subaru sells more AWD (not 4WD) vehicles than Mazda & Mitsubishi. People buy Subaru mainly for their AWD. Subaru only makes AWD - so if it wasn't better they would have been absorbed by GM years ago.

    Why is every other car co. adding AWD to their line - simple - Subaru's success.

    Imitation is the best form of flattery.

    I don't need to prove it on paper.

    ( this is a envigorating debate - you make some valid points - I , however , believe in the human factor - especially for driving)
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "Why is every other car co. adding AWD to their line - simple - Subaru's success"

    Or it could just be to diversify their lineups - instead of having all their eggs in the 2wd basket. They may have found that if they can produce all wheel drive, coupled with a smooth engine (like Honda is known for, for instance), better reliability than Subaru (with sources like CR and JD Powers backing that up), and better ergonomics, that they can steal buyers away from Subaru.

    It will be interesting to see what the future holds for Subaru. They have been the go-to conpany for AWD for a long time. However, with many other manufacturers now getting into the AWD game, with many having more resources than Subaru, it will be interesting to see what the market looks like in 10 years.

    "( this is a envigorating debate - you make some valid points - I , however , believe in the human factor - especially for driving)"

    Don't get me wrong, I see your side as well (and respect what you are saying a lot)...It is human nature to purchase based off of past experiences, and word of mouth from friends. It is hard to stray from a product that has served you well in the real world for years. I guess my point is that let's say hypothetically Subaru's AWD is better than EVERYONE else's. There is only a small percentage of the American population that would actually ever benefit from the Subaru's superiority. Not all of the country has blizzard conditions on an annual basis. So just saying that since Subaru has the superior AWD capabilities, doesn't make it the all around, best vehicle in this segment for everyone.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Why is every other car co. adding AWD to their line - simple - Subaru's success.


    That is not totally true. Yes, Subaru has had great success, but, still they are the 5th largest mfg out of Japan. They are tiny. They only sell vehicles where it snows, unless it's a WRX/ Sti.

    Since many people now believe they need AWD, other mfg's are expanding their line-up to include their vehicles in that segment.

    Same happened when everyone started buying 4 cyl engines instead of 6 cyl's or V8's back in the 80's. People freaked out when gas prices went up. Now, people freak out when it snows, and believe they need AWD. For the 5-10 time /year is snows, I don't go anywhere anyways, and I have never gotten stuck in anything. Also, no Subi get's 30mpg's. For the 355 day's a year where fuel economy is more important to me, that eliminates AWD vehicles. That is why I drive a Mazda6. My wife gets 20mpg around town and 25 highway in here Impreza 2.5 RS.
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