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2010 Toyota 4Runner redesign

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  • brandonWIbrandonWI Posts: 26
    Thanks R.!

    I belive someone posted that same .pdf a week or so ago, but no biggie:)
  • brandonWIbrandonWI Posts: 26
    Good news Donnie, especially considering the 25th's my B-day!

    Will this be the first public showing or will Toyota release anythig beforehand?
  • rsarramirsarrami Posts: 47
    I believe release of information in bits and pieces is deliberate and controlled by Toyota to generate interest for the launch.

    It makes no sense to have this level of detail info but no photos. A US version of dealer order form, such as the one I posted a couple of weeks ago, should have also been available in US.

    The info I got from my contact at dealership & posted yesterday is old (but was new to him). My contact at the dealer is away on vacation for another two weeks. He indicated that more official info from Toyota should be available upon his return.

    It was no surprise to see that the new 4runner engine is duel VVT-i. But it was disappointing to see the torque remains almost unchanged (HP did increase). Nissan Pathfinders 4.0 lit 5 year old engines produce Horsepower of 266 HP @ 5600 rpm and Torque of 288 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm. As we all know while both HP and Torque are important, in trucks/SUV Torque is what we often desire/need for towing and low speeds.

    Further, I do not see why Toyota have chosen not move to a 6 speed auto instead of 5 speed or for that matter CVT in their SUV line up similar to Nissan. Both technologies are now relatively mature and deployed in many cars and SUVs.

    Ramin
  • I wish I was more help, but I really dont know. They are doing this as more of a "Soft Launch" as opposed to the launches like the new 2010 Prius.

    I would imagine that they will be in Dealerships right around that time as well and, as Toyota usually does, each dealer will probably receive at least one around then...

    The training, probably, will be in the Dallas area... Again, this is all just speculation :)
  • brandonWIbrandonWI Posts: 26
    Ramin,

    I feel the same way you do. I think Toyota dropped the ball on offering a mediocre V6 and no V8 option with the upcoming 4runner. Granted, I have not seen nor driven one, but modern day V6's are putting out closer to 280-290hp and more torque than this one. Plus, discontinuing the V8 when it could have just been an option was odd. Heck, my wifes IS350 with a smaller motor puts our 306HP and 277lbs Torque?

    Then dont get me started on not offering oa 6sp auto, what year are we in:) Even compact cars lately are offering them and Toyota has them in other cars why not the 4runner? The benefits of more gears if done right is tremendous. My mom just bought a LS460 with the 8spd auto, and this huge heavy car gets 26-28MPG on the highway(I have done the math to know).

    I have always loved the 4runners, this upcoming one would be my 4th in a row and my parents owned 3 or 4 also. I just hope the rest of the truck is impressive!
  • qs933qs933 Posts: 302
    Geez, the 2010 hasn't even launched and we're griping about it already. :)

    Comparing the 4Runner's V6 to the IS350's V6 is entertaining, but that's about it. Apples and oranges.

    I'm not surprised that we're not seeing huge advancements in the engine and transmission. Does any other Toyota truck have a V6 with a 6-speed auto? No.

    With all the signs indicating that Toyota was on the fence about even launching a new 4Runner for 2010, I'll be more than happy with an improved V6 and the good ol' 5-speed.

    We're making judgements based only on a "higher number is better" approach, which is understandable without any other info.
  • rsarramirsarrami Posts: 47
    Hi qs933,

    As you know the significant cost in manufacturing is the R&D. In times when auto manufacturing survival is based on fuel efficiency, one would presume that companies would offer their more fuel efficient and high power engines in a lower price category vehicles (not that 4rnuuer can be considered as an inexpensive vehicle by any means).

    The Ontario government (a province of Canada) has announced rebates ranging from $4,000 to $10,000 for people who buy plug-in hybrid and battery electric vehicles after July 1, 2010.

    Wrt numbers, HP and torque (sometime presented and kwt) are auto industry’s standard mean of measuring engines output and performance. You are very correct that there many other factors contributing in performance of a vehicle over all than just the engine (tires, aerodynamic shape, transmission, etc..). As far as using a 6 spd auto in truck, it is purely manufacturers marketing decision rather than variability or mechanical obstacles.

    However, looking at engine alone and looking at the history of this vehicle in compression with its competitors, we see it often lack the necessary/desired/competitive edge in engine output for smooth towing. Toyota does posses such technology and it no longer is considered premium. Camary V6 has a 3.5 Lit fuel efficient engine producing 268 HP, 248 torque @ 4,700 rpm with Tier 2 Bin 5 Emissions Rating. A shared engine and transmission with Lexus ES 350.

    Toyota 4Runner has claimed its reputation and leadership among SUV's primarily based on reliability, longevity and off-road compatibility, but most defiantly not engine performance (historically lacked enough torque for smooth towing). V8 was their solution to this shortcoming in the last generation.

    To sum it all it up, I had higher expectation from my favourite auto manufacturer. But as you said very effectively, we should wait and see before judging.

    Ramin
  • qs933qs933 Posts: 302
    In times when auto manufacturing survival is based on fuel efficiency, one would presume that companies would offer their more fuel efficient and high power engines in a lower price category...

    I'd guess fuel efficiency is why Toyota is bringing back a 4-cylinder offering. It would also allow them to position an entry-level model, making the base 4Runner more affordable.

    I'd agree that R&D is a significant cost to a car maker. Is it really all that surprising that we're not seeing any major breakthroughs in terms of a new engine or transmission for the 4Runner given it's realistic sales volume?

    Looking at the 4Runner Towing thread, I don't see any complaints about the engine lacking torque for towing. I do agree that they seem to be moving away from positioning the 4Runner for serious towing without the V8, but reading that thread, it looks like the 4Runner's relatively short wheelbase excluded it from some of the larger towing jobs anyway.

    You mentioned the Camry and ES350's V6 as examples of the engine technology that Toyota possesses. This is probably over-generalizing, but I'm sure if they could've used the same engine, they would have. They reuse them in the Highlander and Venza (also both Camry-platform-based), so reuse of technology is not something Toyota shies away from.

    The 4Runner's V6 is different from the engines used in the Camry-based vehicles. When the Gen4 4Runner launched in 2003 with the V6, it was heralded as a brand new design for their truck engines. I think squeezing over 30 more horsepower and a bit more torque over the current 4.0L V6 is a pretty good accomplishment.

    My expectations are pretty high for the 2010 in terms of exterior appearance and interior quality. But I'm also going to be realistic in terms of what Toyota will choose to offer -- i.e. this is going to be neither a luxury car nor will it be a fuel-sipping econobox. As one of those uploaded documents said, it's going to return "to its roots."
  • rsarramirsarrami Posts: 47
    Hi qs933:

    Based on the Canadian Dealer Order Form that I received from my dealer, Toyota will not be offering a 4-cyl line in Canada.

    Is there any confirmation that they will in US?

    I would have expected a 2wd V6 in US but not a 4-cyl. I also wonder if there would be any other significant variations in US.

    R.
  • qs933qs933 Posts: 302
    The 4-cylinder offering is based on that PDF of "2010 Toyota Changes" that was posted to Tundra solutions (and I think you posted the same PDF). I'm assuming that the document is legitimate (and no reason to think it isn't). But no official confirmation -- we won't see anything "official" till Toyota launches.

    Reading between the lines of the Canadian order document and the "2010 Toyota" PDF, I would guess that the US lineup would include:

    - SR5 2WD 4-cyl
    - SR5 2WD V6
    - SR5 4WD V6
    - Trail Edition 2WD V6
    - Trail Edition 4WD V6
    - Limited 2WD V6
    - Limited 4WD V6

    Kind of makes sense that if the 2WD is not offered in Canada, and if the 4-cylinder engine is not mentioned in Canada, that it's probably a 2WD only model. Again, just a guess based on those documents that were posted. I don't think there will be major functional differences other than the 4-cyl/2WD availability. Probably just more option freedom and more color choices, similar to today's model.
  • akk161akk161 Posts: 2
    New grainy spy shots from Car and Driver.com...Still too early to say, but my initial gut reaction is negative. Hopefully I am proven wrong!

    http://blog.caranddriver.com/2010-toyota-4runner-spied/
  • murphydogmurphydog Posts: 516
    I dunno - the description sounds positive, V6 or V8, solid off road ability - that is what a 4runner is suppose to be.
  • iwant12iwant12 Posts: 269
    Myself, I wish Toyota would go back more toward the 2002 body style. I've always liked that particular design. The engine choices for the '10 sound great, especially more power out of the V6!
  • rsarramirsarrami Posts: 47
    Hi akk161:

    Thanks for the spy photos.

    I must agree with you, I would be disappointed if this is the new 4Runner body style even with most likely added body moulding. On the Car and Driver site they have the spy photos and the current version pictures in series and you hardly see any changes. These pictures are similar to the very grainy spy photos which surfaced several months back.

    The artical on http://www.caranddriver.com/news/spied/09q3/2010_toyota_4runner-spied site suggest that a V8 engine with six speed auto is among offering. This would be a contradiction to information we received last month, unless it is offered in US only.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    Toyota has greatly limited V8 production on the 2009 4Runner. So it would not surprise me (although it will disappoint me) if the V8 is not offered on the 2010 4Runner.

    Performance with a 4-cylinder will be a bad joke.
  • rsarramirsarrami Posts: 47
    Check out the most recent posting from Car and Driver;

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f14184a/107

    The Car and Driver obviously get their information from insecure and unreliable sources. Someone must have emailed them to say “What the heck you’re talking about?” and forwarded them the same documents posted here.

    I hope they pictures are equivalently invalid as I didn’t care for what I saw.
  • rsarramirsarrami Posts: 47
    Hi:

    Got the word that further detail info will become available to the dealership (management only) as of next week. I presume it will be further ordering guide, perhaps pricing.

    My contact indicated that he may not be able to release this info. You may whish to ask your contact for this info, if possible. I will post, if I get any further info.

    R.
  • akk161akk161 Posts: 2
    Thanks rsarrami. Very interested to hear what you learn.
  • I traveled to Latin America a few years ago on a cruise and on one of the islands (It may have been Antigua, Barbados or St Lucia. I noticed they had a VERY good-looking Toyota SUV. I looked at it closely and it was a Toyota Fortuner. I even emailed Toyota USA to see if they would/could consider redesign the 4Runner to look like it. Very sharp!

    Here is a link with Photos of the Fortuner sold in Latin America (The Caribbean and also I think in S.E. Asia) :

    http://www.toyota.co.id/cars/exterior/index.php?Model=Fortuner&kd=Exterior

    I would not be surprised if the US version for 2010 looks very similar to this one.
  • lime679lime679 Posts: 21
    Good Morning All,

    First let me say I am a die hard 4Runner fan and I really hope they do NOT produce a 4 cylinder version. I just can't take it seriously. I would prefer a V8 model but wouldn't mind the V6.

    I worked for a Toyota dealer here in Houston up until last year but I am still very well connected with them. I will try to snag some 2010 4Runner info if they have it and bring it back to everyone.
  • canddmeyercanddmeyer Posts: 384
    I've seen this body style in the Philippines. It's much better looking than my 2003 4Runner.
  • This is all to the best of my knowledge. Please dont yell at me if I'm wrong or if it changes! :)

    Gulf States Toyota was able to order 9 of the new 2010 4Runners on this first go around - not sure about other distribution regions...

    It will be launched at the Texas State Fair on September 24th

    Only v6 models will be available at the launch. The L4 (4 cyl) model will be a few months down the road - no details avaiable yet

    Available Models:

    TBD 4 Cyl, SR5
    8642 V6, SR5, 2WD
    8648 V6, Limited, 2WD
    8664 V6 SR5, 4WD
    8668 V6, Limited, 4WD
    8670 V6, Trails Edition, 4WD

    Thats all I know! :)
  • Colors:

    Blizzard Pearl
    Classic Silver Metallic
    Magnetic Gray Metallic
    Black
    Salsa Red Pearl
    Shoreline Blue Pearl
  • don,

    Out of the 9 orders you mentioned, do the dealers have any info in terms of pricing or where they just ordered sight unseen?(either the buyers didnt care about pricing or the dealers want them to showcase).

    I would like to order one ASAP at my local dealer too! I can't imagine I wont like it considering I owned the last 2 body styles. With SUV sales slow and every thing else going on, I imagine pricing should be similar to the 09's or maybe even cheaper?
    Thanks,
    Brandon
  • BrandonWI

    You would buy a car that you've never even seen before ... let alone driven?
  • I would place the order and if for some reason, I dont like what I see or drive for that matter, I would have worked it out with the dealer so I am not bound to keeping it. The dealer would most likely just sell it to the next person in line.

    So I guess the technical answer is NO, I would need to see and drive it before actually signing for it:) My above post was mainly to state I would have no problem ordering it without seeing it based on how much I liked the last 2 generations :)

    Hope this makes more sense.
  • The Nine 4Runners ordered were ones that Gulf States Toyota (Region/Distributor for TX, OK, LA, MS, AR) were able to order from Toyota Motor Company. I have no idea what dealers they'll be going to or how they are equipped - neither do the dealers at this point.

    I posted that to show the limited availability of the 4Runner at this point in the game as we move forward... 9 coming in for this 5 state region...
  • I guess buying a 4runner blind is about the safest blind auto purchase there could be now that I think about it. Reliable as the day is long - I'm just worried it's going to be generic looking. My guess is they leak a picture 1 month before the debut (9/24), so we ought to see a true photo within the month.
  • Just got this link to sign up for updates on the 2010 4Runner. Looks like Toyota is getting ready to start releasing information...
    http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/2010_4Runner.html?siteid=DMG_em_200907_R- LA_4Runner_AutoWeek_sutxtlnk&url=html_txtlink
  • murphydogmurphydog Posts: 516
    Thanks! looking forward to seeing the bad boy in real life.
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