Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon - V8 for 2008

13»

Comments

  • I did a lot of research on what this could entail as I'm very close to buying a 2008 Colorado. The best sources for model changes are the suppliers, as they need lead times of at least 6 months to get the prototypes built for testing on the assembly line. Looking at models from sister companies sharing the underpinnings is another way to look ahead. Wards has listed very few 355 platform contracts. Due to key interior supplier for the 355 platform Plastech going into bankruptcy, GM will most likely have little chance to get much new into the interior of the Colorado/Canyon/Hummer (Isuzu is dead as of July so not in the mix). Exterior changes appear to be in the front fascia with the rumor being a new face like a junior Silverado/Sierra being the sole 2009 change. The H3t interior showed very few new items with a prototype multi-function steering wheel the biggest change. Under the hood will most likely include the rumored V-8 with displacement on demand technology and a revised shift on the fly 4x4 setup. A diesel is most likely not in the early 2009 build mix based on the lack of contracts for key diesel accessory pieces. Some 2.9 L 4 cylinder changes indicate the engine may be ULEV/50 state for 2009 in all trim levels. General appears to have the tire contract into 2009 based on volumes contracted. A third suspension option appears to be part of the V-8 package and has been contracted. That's all I could find in the quasi-public domain. Unless you want a V-8, I don't think it's worth waiting for the 2009 models.
  • The pump price of propane has been dropping for the past 4 weeks and the pump price of diesel has risen for the last 2 weeks. The point i make on a continual basis, as a heavy truck driver and user also of LPG for 26 years in commercial vehicles, is that there is no contest in the SMART decision about which engine is better.
    Years ago, local governments could get very long term fuel contracts for diesel fuel and gasoline for their fleets. These old contracts could last as long as 2 or 3 years but now most contracts are only 1 to 3 months. This changes everything because you can still get long term contracts for propane. Again, i mean 2 year contracts.
    All diesel trucks now come from the factory with catylitic converters which added at least an extra $2,000 to the selling price on every truck. Why pay $10,000 extra now for a diesel engine on a pickup or small 5 ton truck when you can run gasoline or a combined gasoline/propane duel fuel system?
    Lets not forget the significant tax deductions for a car, bus or truck running LPG which offsets about half the cost of a propane conversion. For school buses and municipalities, they get 100% cost recovery from the Feds for a propane conversion.
    Diesels are for dino's. Are you still living in the past? How can you start a diesel engine every single time when it is minus 30 degrees? You can't.
    All the above facts speak for themselves but some people are thick headed. Some of the diesel fuel sold in North America comes from crude supplied by OPEC American hating countries.
    None of the LPG is sourced from any country that is unfriendly to the USA. OPEC does not control propane prices as the majors in the oil industry gave up on propane 40 years ago. That is why the posted pump price of propane rarely changes.
    Expect to get a 20 cent minimum discount per gallon for a propane fuel contract IF you deal directly with the major LPG companies. This means your price will be around $2.00 per U.S. gallon for propane in the winter and less in the summer months. Let's not forget that it is 105 octane and has 18% hydrogen which is why it burns so clean and completely.
    For the past 6 years now, propane port fuel injection systems have been used which gives 15 to 20% better fuel mileage than old tech propane carbs. I can put you in touch with shops in Buffalo, N.Y. and Pontiac, Mich if you want the best LPG conversion. it is a duel fuel system and leaves thae gasoline sytem in place in case you run out of propane. It automatically swtiches between fuels after it starts on gasoline. No problem there starting at minus 30 or minus 40 degrees. V8's rule.
    This is 2008, happy New Year. are you still in 1988?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Here in Mi. yesterday the price of diesel was 3.899 compared to 3.069 for reg. Who in their right mind would pay the huge premium for a diesel in a Colorado. There would be no practical use. If you need the extra power it would provide it would be better to go to the regular pickup for a lot less than it would cost for a diesel Colorado and get a bigger V8 and besides the 80 plus cents different in fuel prices you would never make up the difference in payouts.
  • The 5.3 liter V8 Colorado has been delayed til the 09 model year as the rear end had to be beefed up to handle the torque for it's intended use which is towing and street racing the ricers. LOL. JK.
    The extra weight of the beefier rear diff and axles is 60 pounds. It is all steel/iron unlike the aluminum rear in the 5 cylinder unit.
    Since the base frame is a very light duty deal, there will be some stronger cross members added with stronger gussets where the rear bolts to the frame.
    To see the new rear in the flesh, go look under an 08 baby Hummer with V8.
    If GM is smart, they will offer an SS version.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Also I doubt GM would ever sell enough of them in todays market to cover the tooling costs.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Mark4, what kind of propane vehicle do you have? Up until recently GM had a S10 and Ford I believe had a Ranger propane fleet model.
  • Factory propane conversions cost too much as witness the Dodge full size van and Chev/GMC factory LPG options in the past. They ended up costing at least $1,500 more than aftermarket LPG conversions. Remember how Americans love to sue each other and blame the car makers when they crash a car or truck and get injured. This is one reason that factory propane and natural gas options cost way more than they should...in the past.
    Ford dropped the CNG option on it's full size Crown Victoria because natural gas gives poor fuel mileage compared to propane. CNG also produces less horsepower than LPG and anyone who wanted to run a cleaner greener vehicle looks at where they can get fuel when travelling long distances. CNG never worked in that regard but propane is readily available in every city and in many farm areas at farmers co-ops.
    There is a LPG conversion shop close to me that i have used for 26 years for conversions and any minor problems which have been nothing to speak of over the years. That shop maintains over 800 car, trucks, buses taxi's and airport limos. They have been in business for 34 years now and they know what they are doing. Six years ago in January, they were chosen to be the first shop to install a port fuel injection system.
    That system is dual fuel and heats the LPG inside a very small section of the end of the fuel tank. The car starts on gasoline and after the water temperature gets to about 80 degrees, it will switch automatically to LPG sending warm propane to the fuel injectors. This allows very long life for the fuel injectors with a 300,000 to 400,000 mile lifespan. Sending very cold liquid propane to the engine does not make good sense as it is so cold, it will burn you when putting it into the tank if you do not wear gloves when handling the hose.
    That is why the LPG liquid injection system does not get good fuel mileage as it cools down the engine.
    Another factor is performance in which warmed up propane works better. Remember heat is energy and the hotter most engines run ( within reason ) the better HP and torque they will have. We used to add a hotter thermostat in the winter months ( 200 degrees ) on propane and a cooler one in the summer ( 180 degrees ).
    This was for commercial operations where the car or truck was running non stop for 10 or 11 hours on end per shift. We always threw the old thermostat away, so twice a year the car would never ever have a problem with stuck units causing overheating and major downtime ( and cooked transmissions). Time is money so throw that cheap metal $6 thingie away and save thousands.
    The only problem ( once ) i had was the LPG fuel filter which slowed the car or truck down ( V8 Chev ) when it was dirty much sooner than expected. I suspect because the fuel tank was not properly cleaned out at the factory.
    All the 2006 and up GM and Ford/Lincoln with V8's have a higher compression ratio than in the past and you need that to take the best advantage of the 105 octane of propane. The engine computer will advance the timing to take advantage of the 105 octane giving better fuel mileage and performance.
    Most of the airport taxi's and limos put on 400,000 miles in 5 years so there is a lot of feedback for these LPG port fuel injection systems over the past 6 years. They get at least 15% better fuel mileage than the old type propane carb type of fuel system and that means thousands of dollars in fuel savings and better performance.
    I have driven over 80 commercial cars and trucks on LPG. Go with a bigger engine if you have an engine option for your car or truck and buy a bigger car so you can have some trunk space left after you add the propane tank. Send me a message before you decide to buy a New car or truck and i will give you some great advice.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Again, this discussion is about V8s in the Colorado and Canyon. Feel free to start a discussion on LPG in the appropriate make/model groups.

    Thanks!
    kcram - Pickups Host

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kcram@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Mark4, thanks for the info, it was very interesting. I will definately think about it in a future vehicle.
  • RE:LPG I'm in a bit of a hurry so i haven't checked my last few posts today but do not forget the tax breaks that you get from the Feds and your State governments.
    The smallest amount for U.S.A. Fed tax deduction is $3,000 for any car, truck, or bus under 5,000 pounds gross weight and must be claimed the same year you do the propane conversion. That amount jumps to $5,000 up to 9,999 pounds gross weight and gets serious for vehiclea over 14,500 pounds which includes the new 2009 Chev/GMC 4500 series cubevan and same the for the Ford as well as the ( maybe ) the Isuzu/Chev/GMC small tilt cab cubevans and of course the Chev?GMC
    Topkick type which have at least a 17,500 pound gross weight rating and also a great big block RAT motor ( porcupine ) of 496 cubic inches and 8.1 liters with a compression ratio of 9.1 to one as the standard engine. GM recommends this engine for propane in all it's Topkick literature and you also gives you a six speed automatic trans with a double overdrive. That is all standard on the Topkick and makes it cheaper to buy than most one ton trucks. They offer a 4 door option and even 4 wheel drive too and the sticker is only about $29,000 for the base model with the Rat motor. You can order air ride seats with an electric pump for the front seats right from the factory. Yaaaa. The C4500 can have a gross tow rating of 26,000 pounds when you order the 19,000 suspension. A nice aftermarket turbo with the propane will give about 650 foot pounds of torque at only 2800 RPM which is right at the proper speed for passing on the highway. Even with the propane conversion, a single or twin 40 gallon propane tank and the turbo charger, IT'S STILL CHEAPER THAN ORDERING THE TRUCK WITH A DIESEL. WOW.
    With the double overdrive automatic 6 speed trans, you will be only reving about 1,700 to 1,900 RPM on the highway and still have torque right in the sweet spot.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Our host have asked you people to drop the propane balony as this is about Colorado and Canyons.
    Maybe instead the Host should just drop the couple of people here who aren't smart enough to read.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Here is what I saw on GM Insider this morning. It will come out in 2010.

    http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=Future_Product_Guide

    Chevrolet Colorado: A major redesign will take place on the Colorado for 2011. The whole truck will be altered in some way or another. Powertrains will stay close to what we currently have, but will be more fuel-efficient and have higher output levels. A 3.0L common-rail diesel is also expected. The platform will remain much the same as the current one.
  • fueledupfueledup Posts: 64
    Just read your post. Very interesting. I live in miami.fl, I have a dodge ram 1500 mega-cab. Where would i go for conversion? how much does it cost apprx? what kind of mileage should expect? Currently avg 12.5 city 16 hwy. Love my truck but mileage is killing me.
  • Poncho, you need another cup of very strong coffee. Wake up. That link you posted is almost one year old and with high fuel prices in 2008 up 37 percent since Jan first, all previous plans have changed.
    Even Nissan was going to offer a diesel version of the Maxima next year ( 2010 model ) but since diesel costs double the price of propane at the pumps in North America, they are considering all options. In many countries in the middle east, gasoline is of poor quality and that is why most of them use diesel or propane in cars and light trucks.
    As for the diesel, in small trucks, Ford just announced this past week they were going to develop a new small pickup and build it in Thailand. Ford & Mazda both offer the exact same truck as in the USA but it has a different grill and name and only has a diesel in Thailand.
    That is where the Chev Colorado is built in the same plant as it's Isuzu twin and uses the 3 liter Isuzu 4 cylinder turbo diesel. The power was boosted for the 2007 model year as it was built for very long life and was underpowered for it's size compared to all the other small pickup diesels there. The smaller 2.5 liter turbo diesel version has so little power that the automatic is not offered with that engine in Asia.
    The Isuzu & Chev Colorado pickup is the best selling vehicle in Thailand. They are exported to every other country in Asia. They also offer the gas 2.9 liter engine as standard but the 2.5 liter diesel is only $600 more. As i recall, the 3 liter diesel costs about $500 more than the 2.5 liter in 2004.
    In early 2004 a diesel 3 liter Chev extended cab with air, CD and auto was about $14,500. In 2008, since the Thai baht has risen in value so much against the U.S. dollar, that exact same truck now cost about $20,000. The double cab, 4 door, is now ( 2008 ) about 22,500, in U.S. funds. The buck was 40 baht to the dollar then ( 2004 )and now it is about 31 baht to the U.S. dollar. With shipping costs and duties into the USA, it is now cheaper just to build them here.
    Since propane is half the price of diesel there in 2008, the gas 2.9 liter version converted to run dual LPG/gasoline is still the better way to go, as the engine will burn cleaner, give the same power and last longer. It runs quieter as well. You can drive all over Thailand, over the border to Cambodia then on to Vietnam and still use propane. So, why use diesel when it cost twice as much? As i have said in previous posts, this is not 1990 anymore. Diesel does not work, it's that simple.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    I am not sure about the date of the article but this was recently posted on autoblog as well and I was just relaying the info.

    If you look back at your posts I am not a diesel fan either and like the propane idea as you described. Diesel does not make sense in this economy for an everyday driver and hasn't in years based on the higher price for the option and the higher fuel cost. How many years will it take to recoupe the price of the vehicle based on these higher costs?

    Oh, and the V8 is still expected though that may change with the fuel costs?
  • asylum575asylum575 Posts: 72
    Edmunds pricing guide has a 5.3V8 for the 2009 model year. Looks like a $1300 option and you have to move up to the the SLE/SLT package. Doesn't say what rear end it will come with. I wonder that the towing capacity will be.
13»
This discussion has been closed.