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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Perhaps they started using those revised 640 shocks on the new production before replacing the faulty existing ones.

    And unless the Genesis uses the same part number, that discussion probably belongs in the Azera threads.

    It weighs a bunch more so I'm sure the parts are quite different.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That's not their goal - their goal is to make a profit. Their unorthodox approach seems to be working.
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,020
    FWIW, this discussion resides in the Automotive News forum and not in the Hyundai Azera group. If you are accessing by using the Browse by Vehicle search, it may appear to be in that group, but that's because the search will find all discussions that has the Azera in the category. If you wish to talk strictly about the Azera, I suggest you do so in that specific group.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0aaebf

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    THEY DON'T AND CAN"T

    That would have been an interesting position to discuss back, oh say 18 months ago. But since they CAN and DO, today, and have been for over a year now, and in pretty decent volumes for this kind of car, it's a bit out of date for a position, no matter what the basis for it.

    Now, if you want to start a thread here on whether Hyundai will be successful selling the Equus in the U.S., taking the next jump into the luxury market, that's fair game. But arguing that the sun didn't rise in the East today is kinda a waste of time, don't you think?
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    That would be me.

    I have never had the urge to drive around the neighborhood grinning and trying to impress the neighbors. If I do get the urge, my friends and neighbors will let me take a spin in their fancy cars. I look way beyond a badge. Badges are mostly for the Gray Poupon set, kids, and adults that never grew up.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    As I have said before, if Hyundai really does think itself a 'luxury' brand then more expensive even better equipped cars like the Equus are likely a good idea. To start cheapening the Genesis name before they have even established it, a big mistake IMO....

    Instead of all the stratagising, conniving, and gorilla dust, why not make good cars? You can do it cheaper if you don't spend 100's of millions on slick marketing.

    The same can be said for Hyundai, and why Hyundai really needs to do a little more work improving its image before they worry about making luxury cars'..

    Right. And how is the best way to build your image? By building good cars, of course!
  • Hi Everyone,
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  • Sorry, I meant to post this as a seperate thread. How do you start a new thread on this board?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    see and the difference with you is that you look at what is unquestionably a nicely appointed full size car - looking at in terms of bling for the buck - and say 'this is a luxury car'.. I say that there is a lot more to a 'luxury' car than that nice leather, wood, electronic gar-bage etc. It's more about how the car is perceived, and on that basis, my contention is something called a Hyundai can never be a luxury car regardless of how 'nice' it is. This is NOT a dig at Hyundai specifically because this is the same situation that the base J3 and D3 brands share as well.
    The Equus will present an interesting problem for Hyundai, IMO, because then apparently they will be broaching a true lux pricetag ($50k+) - and no longer can they sell a car because it is significantly cheaper (or offers that much more value) , the car buyer will have other choices that do have the appropriate badge recognition for about the same $. When the car buyer spends that kind of money and chooses a Korean product over a similarly priced Japanese or German one, that is when we will know that Hyundai has found some sort of acceptance in the luxury side of things.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I say that there is a lot more to a 'luxury' car than that nice leather, wood, electronic gar-bage etc. It's more about how the car is perceived, and on that basis, my contention is something called a Hyundai can never be a luxury car regardless of how 'nice' it is.

    You just described a prestige or cult car perfectly. Luxury is not just a perception, it's a measurable reality.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    What's in a name?

    I think Hyundai has found enough people that sit inside the Genesis and find it plenty luxurious for them.

    Whether it's classified as a luxury car or not probably doesn't matter a whole lot to those buyers.

    Equus will indeed be interesting to watch because it'll be a much smaller volume car than the Genesis is, and not the screaming bargain, either.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Here is a shortcut to the Ody vs. Sienna thread:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0cafef.ef353cb/5035#MSG5035

    Those are currently the only 2 minivans that offer 8 passenger seating. The Ody is really more of a 7+1, with a bridge between the two captain's chairs, while the Sienna actually offers 3 individual seats in the middle row.

    I have an 8 passenger Sienna and we really like it.

    A diesel Sprinter might be appealing to me if I had to carry as many as 15, though.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    It's more about how the car is perceived, ...

    OK. I, and many others, perceive the Genesis sedan to be a luxury car. Hence it is. It is routinely compared in the automotive press to other luxury cars. That is another sign that it is perceived as a luxury car.

    The reason you don't perceive the Genesis sedan as a luxury car is because you don't believe Hyundai should be producing luxury cars at this time. Hence if the Genesis sedan were a luxury car, it would blow that position out of the water.

    To me, a car is what I perceive it to be, not what others perceive it to be. I am the one paying for it and driving it. If you and others want to be dictated to by the rest of the world as to what you drive, that's up to you.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Luxury is not just a perception, it's a measurable reality.
    I misstated my post perhaps - maybe I should have phrased this that " it's also about how a car is perceived...." So it needs to be BOTH. The reality part of a luxury car anybody can do - we sure can option the heck out of pretty much anything with whatever features and/or options that could generally be some sort of 'measure' of what a luxury car should be - the perception part of it, however is a different story.
    And yes, carolinabob, a luxury car must also be one from a mfgr with at least some prestige. A good example of this is Lincoln , a traditional American luxury brand, that is losing its place in the luxury market. As rebadged Fords the cars are simply losing as least some of that prestige while still having many of those other more 'measurable' qualifications
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    you don't believe Hyundai should be producing luxury cars at this time.
    No, not really - I don't believe they are - at least not with that label. A Hyundai Genesis could out option a Rolls and still not be a luxury car. A Genesis, however, if it were to become its own badge separate from Hyundai, would have a good chance, IMO - but this is not the way Hyundai has chosen to market or sell it.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    Both sides do have a point about luxury Hyundai.

    On one hand:
    Genesis is a near luxo entry, basically IMO Hyundai's test model, to warm the market up for Equus. And once you look over the Equus' err, uh, not so attractive (okay, ugly) sheetmetal, it's actually a really nice car. Soft ride, tankersize inside, nice materials...

    OTOH:
    Like captain2, I'm also concerned with Hyundai's attempt. The $50k+ market is different from the 40k market, and value means less there. With so many competitors offering similar performance and features, Equus will have a hard time competing with the likes of Infiniti, Lexus, and the Germans.
    Second problem is image, luxury market in US is very image concious, and as mentioned before by others, Hyundai's decision to market Equus as Hyundai is akin to VW Phaeton IMO.

    I'm no market expert, but this time I do think Hyundai's rushing it a bit. I thought the same aboutr Genesis until Hyundai announced that Gen will be a near luxocar.

    Is Equus a luxury car? Yes, no doubt about it. Is Hyundai ready to market it in US? I doubt it, but time will tell.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I'm no market expert, but this time I do think Hyundai's rushing it a bit. I thought the same aboutr Genesis until Hyundai announced that Gen will be a near luxocar.

    Rushing what a bit?

    I don't think a car manufacturer has ever been criticized for getting a good product to market too quickly.

    Do you think Hyundai should slow down and gradually ramp up their quality, or improve and market it as quickly as possible? I think the latter. It's impossible to improve cars too fast or sell them at too low a price. But I'm just a consumer, so what do I know? ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure Infiniti has done all that well.

    The G sedan and coupe are successful in the near-luxury market, but the M (good as it is, I like 'em) hasn't really taken off and the flagship Q tried 3 times and failed, and was finally cancelled.

    I doubt Hyundai will do any worse than that. The Genesis is spanking the M. The Equus, we'll see, but the Q failed, so it shouldn't be hard to beat.
  • In my Humble opinion, Captain2 you are agonizing on the the technical terms, lets take a look at the whole picture....
    Hyundai was thought to be going in the wrong direction when the Genesis was announced. "No one will pay more then $30k for a Hyundai !!!" . Well the fact is they are selling the Genesis @ $38k for the 4.6 liter V8 . So now they are gonna try to sell a car for GASP !!! $60K ....."No One will Pay $60k for a mere Hyundai".
    Not only will people pay $60k for a Hyundai it is my opinion that they will be able to command close to $80k for a car in the next five years. Hyundai does not need to follow the lead of Toyota or Nissan. While a lot of people are brand conscience they are a lot who are not. People with money like to get good deals as well and Hyundai will always position themselves as a Good Value for the dollar. With the strong Warranty many people will look at Hyundai. It does not matter if you call the car a luxury car or not. As long as it has the creature comforts that the competitors are offering at a value they will sell.
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